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Bob Marshall would REQUIRE teachers to carry; McEachin "appalled"
- Thread starter Repeater
- Start date
2a4all
Regular Member
Fail? Seems a bit of a generalization. The CHP B/G check is a vetting process, but it's not a crystal ball. In Cho's case, you can't check what's not in the record.
Marco
Regular Member
Again, so should everyone that has a clean background check be allowed?
I'm glad someone understands.
2a4all
Regular Member
This isn't about whether B/G checks should be required for CHPs. I'm all for "Constitutional Carry". Until we get that in place, I'll have to work within the existing framework, and take advantage of it where possible (e.g. carrying in the GA bldg on Lobby Day).
Oh, wait; there's an example of "everyone that has a clean background check be allowed"
Marco
Regular Member
This isn't about whether B/G checks should be required for CHPs. I'm all for "Constitutional Carry". Until we get that in place, I'll have to work within the existing framework, and take advantage of it where possible (e.g. carrying in the GA bldg on Lobby Day).
Oh, wait; there's an example of "everyone that has a clean background check be allowed"
Why not just answer the question???
:banghead:And you are wrong.... The GA bldging allows CHP'ers to carry not all with a clean background check to enter armed...
If that was the case those that bought a gun from a ffl (within time frame xyz) could enter the GA armed and not be a chp holder, all the DOD and of gov't employees without chp's could enter armed .. they can't so.
2a4all
Regular Member
I was limiting my discussion to those who had been vetted via the CHP B/G check. However, those vetted via other means could also be considered, if the Commonwealth will honor them (Fed B/G checks).
45acpForMe
Newbie
I am obviously VERY against the GFSZA but we have hard evidence that no blood would run in the streets if it were repealed. Texas has a school district where teachers are allowed to carry, Michigan allows concealed carry permit holders to carry on school grounds. So why the uproar???? I know it is all the anti's getting their favorite topic of gun free zones (which they think all places should be and unicorns and fairies should be there too) attacked.
I wish there was a comprehensive list of places in the USA, Canada or other free countries where guns are allowed in the schools. Israel is a great example and has stopped terrorist attacks in their tracks, but why won't the wonderfully edumacated people in our gubbermant learn from real life events and history. I guess our school system has graduated a bunch of Oprah wanna-bees having all decisions made on "how it makes you FEEL!".
I wish there was a comprehensive list of places in the USA, Canada or other free countries where guns are allowed in the schools. Israel is a great example and has stopped terrorist attacks in their tracks, but why won't the wonderfully edumacated people in our gubbermant learn from real life events and history. I guess our school system has graduated a bunch of Oprah wanna-bees having all decisions made on "how it makes you FEEL!".
In Virginia it is legal to OC w/o a CHP and CC w/CHP on the grounds of state supported colleges, unless they have a regulation to the contrary. Students and staff must be aware of the potential school imposed sanctions.
Approximately 52 million gun owners (LAC) did no harm to others yesterday...........or any other day before.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_gun_owners_are_there_in_the_United_States_of_America
45acpForMe
Newbie
Grapeshot, yes Colleges/Universities should be taken care of with a properly defined preemtion bill, hopefully soon.
My point was that according to a visiting opencarry.org member a year or so ago (little_freak_66?) they are allowed to carry into schools if they have their version of the CHP.
I haven't heard of any CHP holder going crazy inside their schools so I assume we have good empirical evidence that blood won't run in the hallways/streets if CHP holders were allowed to carry into Virginia schools, K-12.
My point was that according to a visiting opencarry.org member a year or so ago (little_freak_66?) they are allowed to carry into schools if they have their version of the CHP.
I haven't heard of any CHP holder going crazy inside their schools so I assume we have good empirical evidence that blood won't run in the hallways/streets if CHP holders were allowed to carry into Virginia schools, K-12.
Didn't mean to give the impression that I was directing my reply to you - I wasn't. Was only making the remarks pertinent to VA for the benefit of others.
USNA69
Regular Member
The gummint doesn't seem have any problem forcing Catholics under penalty of law to fund birth control for employees in their hospitals ... in an affront to Catholics' most deeply held religious beliefs.
But, don't expect that same gummint to mandate the carrying of firearms by faculty and staff to protect the children.
Such a mandate might be ...uhh ... unwelcome by the NEA and the teacher's unions, and it would be inthinkable to cause any affront to them.
Union demands trump children's lives every time.
But, don't expect that same gummint to mandate the carrying of firearms by faculty and staff to protect the children.
Such a mandate might be ...uhh ... unwelcome by the NEA and the teacher's unions, and it would be inthinkable to cause any affront to them.
Union demands trump children's lives every time.
45acpForMe
Newbie
I know that some LARGE percentage of people in the education industry are liberal-anti's. I wouldn't want to "force" them to carry but WOULD love to allow those willing to be allowed to defend themselves and the children. I would also LOVE to be able to carry into my childrens schools so that I am not dependent on someone else for my (and my childrens) security.
What must happen is the law has to be crafted such that no school administrator has authority to decide not to allow their teachers (or parents) to be armed. If something like a principals choice was included in a bill there would be 99% failure rate of the purpose of protecting students. The law has to be firm in that no school administrator can abuse law abiding firearm carriers and I would go so far as to include a $1000 penalty for each incident when a carrier is called out from other law abiding non-carriers in the school.
I wouldn't want to be stigmatized or have my children punished somehow simply because I am following the law and exercising my rights.
What must happen is the law has to be crafted such that no school administrator has authority to decide not to allow their teachers (or parents) to be armed. If something like a principals choice was included in a bill there would be 99% failure rate of the purpose of protecting students. The law has to be firm in that no school administrator can abuse law abiding firearm carriers and I would go so far as to include a $1000 penalty for each incident when a carrier is called out from other law abiding non-carriers in the school.
I wouldn't want to be stigmatized or have my children punished somehow simply because I am following the law and exercising my rights.
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KYGlockster
Activist Member
There are more than 52 million gun owners in the United States. The data you published is for number of "homes" that have firearms in them, and that estimate suggests 52 million homes contain atleast ONE firearm.
From the article you cited: "Remove those that skew the stats for their own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of American HOUSEHOLDS owning 260 million guns."
These numbers still are not correct, because this only involves those that willingly give the information to those conducting polls. I would be nervous informing someone who called my home that I own firearms, regardless of who they say they are calling for or why. So I would guess even the number of homes that have a firearm in them are much higher than the polls suggest. Even the number of firearms they suggest are in civillian hands is incorrect. Twenty years ago the BATF suggested there were close to 230 million firearms in civillian possession, and there has been well over one-hundred million firearms sold since then.
In late '94 55% of those polled said they had firearms in their home, but just a year later only 40% said they had a firearm in their home? We had a RECORD year this year concerning number of firearms sold, with the most ever sold in one year! When the political environment heats up and people begin thinking strict laws are heading our way they are hesitant to admit to gun ownership.
In the first three months of 2012, there were 5.6 million NICS checks conducted for gun sales. This is an adjusted number that removes those conducted for other activities. When you figure that more than one firearm can be purchased per check, then this gives us a broad idea of how many firearms were sold in just THREE months! By the end of November, 2012, there were over 16 million NCIS checks conducted for firearm purchases, and I would bet December will have several million as well (I would bet over 5 million easy).
When was the last time an OC'er went crazy inside a school...or are we now fitting OC'ers and criminals in the same drawer to save space?
Pick whatever number from whatever poll or study that best suits you - pont is that the extreme vast numbers of guns where NOT used in any crime. The number of guns not used in the commission of a crime is a really BIG number.
That's one of the best facts that can be brought out. It will just sail over a lot of heads though.
It needs to be thrown out for them over and over and over............
45acpForMe
Newbie
I would love to be able to OC in every school. I was simply building on what already works in other states (where no blood has run in their schools hallways) so we have hard evidence to counter any arguments against carrying in schools.
On another note though, the education industry is very liberal and I don't see that changing soon. Given the choice of allowing students to see openly carried guns or forcing parents/teachers to conceal, I think the vast majority of school administrators (who will have a voice in any debate) will choose the concealing option. OC could be argued being better such that if a crazy walked into the school and saw several people OCing he may just leave. If you think we have the political traction/clout to push for constitutional carry everywhere as our God given rights, I am all for it. If not we push and push and push in the RIGHT direction.
Right now whether you like it or not (and Peter I know you are in the NOT crowd) the CHP provides some form of background check that I believe would counter any aguments from the anti's that just letting anyone carry in a school would be a bad thing.
I wouldl like to scrap/negate the federal GFSZA first and then tackle the Virginia state laws to allow OC/CC.
