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NRA calls for armed guards in schools

Alpine

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...every-school-dismisses-calls-for-gun-control/

While I'd prefer to have a lot of separate teachers trained and armed as licensed LEOs, as well as volunteer parents who meet training criteria patrolling schools, this isn't a terrible idea either, though it costs a lot more than teachers and volunteers.

I wonder if the MSM will acknowledge that the only way to protect schools is stop making them into giant targets by advertising to everyone that no one there has a gun to stop a gun-toting maniac.
 

compmanio365

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Pierce County, Washington, USA
I was watching the conference, and while I agree the best solution would be to eliminate GFZs entirely and allow teachers to arm themselves to defend their students, this is realistic where, unfortunately, in a country full of hopolophobes, that is not. I liked how they didn't defend gun ownership, but went on the attack of how stupid it was to keep everyone disarmed at schools. They have an answer, whereas the libs only have knee-jerk reactions that will solve nothing. As usual.
 

gogodawgs

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Let teachers, administrators and parents who choose to be armed and are qualified carry at the schools. Repeal the gun free zones. And reinforce the cockpit doors.

Adding 'police' to schools to provide armed security will only add to the police state that is already underway. Ask your high school student how many rights are already abused when school district police are on campus now. Clear violations of the 4th and 5th amendments already exist in many schools. Having a 'police officer' stand around in the school will just lead to more proactive police work that infringes upon our children's rights.
 

Alpine

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I know WA isn't the only place with a huge budget problem, most places are still lingering in the recession.

In the long run it's potentially cheaper to train and arm most/all teachers and school admins rather than hire additional guard personnel. The exposure of students to responsible armed role models in the forms of their teachers will also be a long-term cultural plus for the reasons that Gogodawgs stated above.

Also, from a tactical standpoint, having a few armed guards in a school is not as good as having many armed teachers and admins who are everywhere. Even with secure access points, if someone manages to sneak in, it will take the guards time to get to the crises. Whereas having many teachers and admins spread out will yield fast response time.
 
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Vitaeus

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Bremerton, Washington
Just remove teh GFSZ for teachers, staff, and citizens and they are way less attractive. There will still be theaters and other private places that proudly proclaim their Gun free status, let them draw the madmen and glory seekers.
 

FMCDH

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I know WA isn't the only place with a huge budget problem, most places are still lingering in the recession.

In the long run it's potentially cheaper to train and arm most/all teachers and school admins rather than hire additional guard personnel. The exposure of students to responsible armed role models in the forms of their teachers will also be a long-term cultural plus for the reasons that Gogodawgs stated above.

Also, from a tactical standpoint, having a few armed guards in a school is not as good as having many armed teachers and admins who are everywhere. Even with secure access points, if someone manages to sneak in, it will take the guards time to get to the crises. Whereas having many teachers and admins spread out will yield fast response time.

The problem I see with this is a matter of training and mindset.

Training:
We would have to set up the training where the teachers lock the classrooms down and fortify against an attacker if something happened. Having only a few non-classroom bound administrators who will search for an active shooter in a team rather than have all the teachers hitting the hallways, nervously popping shots at anything that moves. I don't think you can train enough teachers well enough to have them keep their wits about them to go search for a shooter.

I'm all for giving any teacher the option to have a gun handy while teaching if they are willing to undergo the background checks and training, but training, training and more training will be key to get parents to sign off on such an idea. God help us the first time any teacher hits a student while defending against an active shooter.

Mindset:
Most of our public schools are not a battle zone, and nothing even closely resembling this will happen in the mass majority of them. That said, most places will never "actively" arm teachers and administrators en-mass. Its not feasible in the current culture of this country, and the NRA know this. At best, you would likely see this done in the form of lock boxes placed in the trained teachers classroom. I think most of our public school teachers would opt out of such a program anyway, making huge gaps in classroom coverage. The current firearms culture in the US would never stand for teachers "packing" daily in our public schools, and there is no way you could make such a thing compulsory. I wouldn't even support compulsory carry.

Hell, we don't even carry firearms as teachers in the military, nor are they available in any way in the case of an active shooter scenario. We have to rely on first responders the same as anyone else. The only exception to this is during firearms training where all instructors carry "locked and loaded", just in case.

Ultimately it comes down to mindset and culture. I personally understand that these tragedies will continue happen regardless of gun availability (as they have around the world), and I am willing to accept the concept that a shootout is better than a massacre, but right now, the majority of our fellow Americans are not anywhere near that understanding or acceptance.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Let teachers, administrators and parents who choose to be armed and are qualified carry at the schools. Repeal the gun free zones. And reinforce the cockpit doors.

Adding 'police' to schools to provide armed security will only add to the police state that is already underway. Ask your high school student how many rights are already abused when school district police are on campus now. Clear violations of the 4th and 5th amendments already exist in many schools. Having a 'police officer' stand around in the school will just lead to more proactive police work that infringes upon our children's rights.

QFT, but will say we are already a police state. We are watched and tracked in ways Hitler or Stalin or Mao would have never dreamed of.

I don't think many teachers will get guns this would go against the active indoctrination they are doing.

The best answer is stop stealing money for schools and make people be responsible for their own education, and those who can't charities will provide.
 

hrlysef

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Oct 15, 2009
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Maple Valley, Washington, USA
I don't think many teachers will get guns this would go against the active indoctrination they are doing.

You may remember this one from Oregon just a couple of years ago:

http://blog.laborlawcenter.com/2007/09/25/oregon-teacher-sues-for-right-to-bring-gun-to-work/

Since the teachers have the time to lock the doors they would have time to unlock a small safe too. Have the kids lie on the floor facing away from the door with their hands over their ears.
 

aa1911

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Jul 18, 2012
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Yelm, WA
I don't see it happening but I would like to see the GFZ crap stop. Every mass shooting happens in GFZ's, so let us eliminate that factor!!

If a teacher has their CCW, then allow them their constitutional right to carry a freakin' gun, why does it give people the willies when guns get near kids?

I can carry open and concealed at a playground or any number of other places where there's lots of kids. why should schools be any different?

banning or restricting guns won't do anything positive. infringing and stomping on our liberty won't work. building schools like prisons won't work. psych testing to get guns will not work. Calling for the president of the NRA to be assassinated is insane. there's no money for dedicated police or armed guards.

so we eliminate the GFZ which costs nothing and levels the playing field so to speak. and puts us one step closer to our constitution, a document I find to be absolute even in today's world but something this new generation is comfortable with crapping on.
 

EMNofSeattle

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QFT, but will say we are already a police state. We are watched and tracked in ways Hitler or Stalin or Mao would have never dreamed of.

I don't think many teachers will get guns this would go against the active indoctrination they are doing.

The best answer is stop stealing money for schools and make people be responsible for their own education, and those who can't charities will provide.

And I'm sure you were educated with no US tax dollars whatsoever...
 

EMNofSeattle

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S. Kitsap, Washington state
I don't see it happening but I would like to see the GFZ crap stop. Every mass shooting happens in GFZ's, so let us eliminate that factor!!

If a teacher has their CCW, then allow them their constitutional right to carry a freakin' gun, why does it give people the willies when guns get near kids?

I can carry open and concealed at a playground or any number of other places where there's lots of kids. why should schools be any different?

banning or restricting guns won't do anything positive. infringing and stomping on our liberty won't work. building schools like prisons won't work. psych testing to get guns will not work. Calling for the president of the NRA to be assassinated is insane. there's no money for dedicated police or armed guards.

so we eliminate the GFZ which costs nothing and levels the playing field so to speak. and puts us one step closer to our constitution, a document I find to be absolute even in today's world but something this new generation is comfortable with crapping on.

Because an employer has traditionally always had the right to determine if their employees were armed on the job...

just look at the liability it would create if a teacher shot some student, I'm sure that would be a 7 figure settlement right there. Repeal GFSZA for the LACs who are parents or volunteers or carefully screened employees who may be authorized to carry. but I don't want every school staff person armed. First off I know at least three staff employees at my previous high school who maybe aren't exactly stable.

and the sentiment is all for nothing, Schools are one of the safest places kids can be. school shootings are not particularily common. The reason shopping malls and theatres and schools are selected as targets have to do entirely with masses of people at one spot making for a convienent target. many mass killings or string killings have occured where guns are lawfully allowed. the number of citizens in this state licensed to carry is so proportionally low that if a shooter rolls the dice on shooting up a safeway grocery store chances are there will be no LACs carrying in the store.

Yes the GFSZA needs to be repealed for 10th amendment reasons, but I hardly think the next step is arming every single school staff... 90% of them are likely ideologically opposed to the idea anyway, and of those who are sympathetic they may not choose to carry anyway.
 

PistolPackingMomma

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Oct 1, 2011
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SC
And I'm sure you were educated with no US tax dollars whatsoever...

Tax dollars, that were appropriated FROM the people, then used "for" them...so what are you trying to say? US tax dollars do not fall from the sky. Though I did hear a rumor that they can if you give Ben Bernake a green marker and a roll of toilet paper...:p
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
Tax dollars, that were appropriated FROM the people, then used "for" them...so what are you trying to say? US tax dollars do not fall from the sky. Though I did hear a rumor that they can if you give Ben Bernake a green marker and a roll of toilet paper...:p

+1

Schools have become for many a babysitting arrangement. Many send their kids to school because they feels since the money is already stolen from them they can't afford to pay for that and private school. I was amazed at the amount of people though in Hawaii, even in lower incomes who work hard to send their kids to private schools, they realize the public ones fail their children.

Also state laws (written with the help of union teachers) mandating aspects of children's education make it difficult.

So many people cry and wail about how to make schools safe from mad men, when the answer is simply stop the laws that create these moral hazards. GFZ's, mandated public education, how many murders in this country are done by fellow students, who use schools as a social club or a place to facilitate gang warfare and drug dealing? Of course much of this is again moral hazards created by statism.
 

EMNofSeattle

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S. Kitsap, Washington state
+1

Schools have become for many a babysitting arrangement. Many send their kids to school because they feels since the money is already stolen from them they can't afford to pay for that and private school. I was amazed at the amount of people though in Hawaii, even in lower incomes who work hard to send their kids to private schools, they realize the public ones fail their children.

Also state laws (written with the help of union teachers) mandating aspects of children's education make it difficult.

So many people cry and wail about how to make schools safe from mad men, when the answer is simply stop the laws that create these moral hazards. GFZ's, mandated public education, how many murders in this country are done by fellow students, who use schools as a social club or a place to facilitate gang warfare and drug dealing? Of course much of this is again moral hazards created by statism.

Well I guess if we had no laws we'd also have no crime and no problems with it huh?

Public education is not mandated you have the freedom to use a private school or homeschool.

I suppose you honestly believe a 6 year old should have to knock on doors for handouts if they want to go to kindergarten huh? What if hypothetically, you have a 6 year old who's capable of understanding the value of education, and no one will donate to them? And their parents don't care? You going to leave them out in the cold? Never get education that's nessecary to function in modern society... So forever they're kept below the rest of society with no chance whatsoever to get out of such a situation. Of course you call this freedom, that kid shouldn't be bitching the free market will take care of him, and if he dies because irresponsible parents won't feed him and there is no foster system funded by big evil tax dollars then he's even more free!

Now let me predict the future, you'll come back with some vague argument about how government only makes things worse, maybe throw one or two examples of how the system failed a minority of people, and then draw a hasty conclusion about how the solution is to completely throw the system to the ground and let "charities" provide for everyone just like they provided for Ron Paul's campaign manager.
 

Batousaii

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Jun 16, 2009
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Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
LoL - So i find it funny that it was president clinton who first pushed cops in schools

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

But since it's the NRA saying it today, well, it has to be crazy right?
- The bleeting has gotten very loud on media reader comments.


from the article:
"April 2000: Clinton also unveiled the $60-million fifth round of funding for "COPS in School," a Justice Department program that helps pay the costs of placing police officers in schools to help make them safer for students and teachers. The money will be used to provide 452 officers in schools in more than 220 communities.
"Already, it has placed 2,200 officers in more than 1,000 communities across our nation, where they are heightening school safety as well as coaching sports and acting as mentors and mediators for kids in need," Clinton said. "
 
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sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
Well I guess if we had no laws we'd also have no crime and no problems with it huh?

Didn't say that did I? But how have the laws you love so much prevented what happened?

Public education is not mandated you have the freedom to use a private school or homeschool.

It is mandated, you are allowed to if you meet certain requirements to choose another path, you are not allowed to stop the theft of your money for an education system that is failing. An allowance is not a freedom of choice, this shows your statists thinking.

Your last few sentences don't even deserve a response. You build your argument on a house of cards, when a few cards are pulled out you simply can't accept that, so you resort to demagoguery.

I say Kudos individuals like Brewster and his wife who do what they can to remove their children from the state propaganda education system. They don't need a cop at their house they are armed, I bet their children will by pass the general population in academic knowledge and will understand and respect what liberty and freedom are about.

Putting armed gaurds and police men in school as Nick so well pointed out will like most government solutions will cause more problems than it solves and likely will not prevent further tragedies
 
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