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Thread: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead in upstate N.Y

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    4 firefighters shot, 2 dead in upstate N.Y

    Oh, great. Here we go again. An attempt at mass murder with a gun, according to this report.

    This is getting quite disheartening. Who in their right mind would shoot at firefighters on duty?

    Initial news reports are maddeningly vague on the weapon(s). If this is an "assault" rifle shooting, it will be very bad. Again.

    I'm getting sick of this.



    4 firefighters shot, 2 dead in upstate N.Y
    WEBSTER, N.Y. Four volunteer firefighters responding to a pre-dawn house fire were shot Monday morning, two fatally, leading to a shootout in suburban Rochester, N.Y., police said.


    "One or more shooters" fired at the firefighters after they arrived shortly after 5:30 a.m. at the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore, just east of Rochester, Town of Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.




    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...n-upstate-n.y/

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    It'll be interesting to see who the shooters are. Even murderous gangs like MS-13 don't pull stupid stunts like this.

    Attacking firefighters and ambulances is an increasingly frequent terror tactic executed by Muslims in France.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    I'm currently in Rochester visiting family. I have not heard much, but what I have heard is that the single shooter killed his grandmother in 1980 by beating her to death with a hammer, spent 17 years in jail beginning in '82, then was released. last night he started his house on fire, then when firefighters arrived to put out the fire, he shot at them from a barricade he made where he had multiple different guns, then had a firefight with police, then took his own life. last I heard, the sister of the shooter is unaccounted for. also, multiple houses surrounding his were destroyed by fire as obviously the firemen were not able to put the fire out very quickly.

    keep in mind guys, this is in a very mellow suburb in the outskirts of Rochester, NOT inner city by any means. it's a quiet neighborhood town, in the 1 state that has the strictest gun laws in the entire country. the political outcry over this is going to be very interesting

    I have not heard yet what types of weapons were used
    Last edited by motoxmann; 12-24-2012 at 11:44 PM.

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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead in upstate N.Y

    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post

    Attacking firefighters and ambulances is an increasingly frequent terror tactic executed by Muslims in France.
    You must be wrong..... Islam is a religion of peace!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Were getting sick of these news stories also. Every time something like this happens anywhere in the world and especially in the USA, the Australian anti firearms media, latch on and pound us with it for days.

    "THE ex-con who lured firefighters to their deaths in a blaze of gunfire left a typewritten note saying he wanted to burn down the neighbourhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people," police said."
    .

    Read More;
    <http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/firefighters-shot-trying-to-save-lives-in-webster-new-york/story-fnddckzi-1226543177223>

    This demonic should have been put to death after the hammer killing of his grandmother, then this would not have happened.

    Murderes will use anything to carry out their evil plans. Fire being one of them. Ban guns and fire will be there to be used, as in the Ash Wednesday fires downunder, and the whisky-a-gogo murders.
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    The dread AR. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    I have not heard yet what types of weapons were used

    Killer of 2 NY firemen had semiautomatic rifle

    Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said Tuesday that 62-year-old William Spengler was armed with a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, a .38-caliber revolver and a 12-gauge shotgun in Monday’s ambush. . . .

    Police have not said which weapon or weapons were used to shoot the firefighters.




    http://www.boston.com/news/local/con...yLP/story.html

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    Why the sudden rash of bad guys with Bushmasters?

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    If the shooter had been executed for murdering his grandmother 30 years ago -- as he SHOULD have been (yes, I am all for capital punishment!) -- THIS particular crime would not have happened.

    ...nor would so many other crimes by the same category of people (people/criminals who shouldn't still be alive).
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 12-25-2012 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    Why the sudden rash of bad guys with Bushmasters?
    (yawn)

    And, in 1876, anti-gunners woulda been (bleep)tching about all the shootings with the new, super-reliable, multi-shot, fast-reloading Peacemaker revolver. And, by 1890 they woulda been having a cow over the proliferation of (gasp!) lever-action rifles.

    Like its Bushmaster's fault they're successful as a company at producing a product and selling it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Like its Bushmaster's fault they're successful as a company at producing a product and selling it.
    Pretty sure that's not what he was suggesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Pretty sure that's not what he was suggesting.
    I wasn't suggesting he was suggesting it. So, why are you suggesting I was suggesting he was suggesting it?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    Why the sudden rash of bad guys with Bushmasters?
    Market share?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Like its Bushmaster's fault they're successful as a company at producing a product and selling it.
    As Jack notes, not my point. Why specifically the Bushmaster .223? It could be coincidence, naturally, that two high-profile killings less than 10 days apart, both using weapons rarely used for murder, just happen to use not just the same kind of weapon, but the same make and model of weapon. Bushmaster does, as you note, sell a bunch of them. I just greatly dislike coincidences like this. Anti-gun politicians could not have manufactured a better outcome in terms of keeping up the pressure to ban semi-autos and making the Bushmaster the icon upon which they will do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    As Jack notes, not my point. Why specifically the Bushmaster .223? It could be coincidence, naturally, that two high-profile killings less than 10 days apart, both using weapons rarely used for murder, just happen to use not just the same kind of weapon, but the same make and model of weapon. Bushmaster does, as you note, sell a bunch of them. I just greatly dislike coincidences like this. Anti-gun politicians could not have manufactured a better outcome in terms of keeping up the pressure to ban semi-autos and making the Bushmaster the icon upon which they will do so.
    It's my speculation that they are just saying its a Bushmaster because a majority of people will remember it from 10-11 days ago. In the media its all about the spin, positive or negative associations.
    Like those ASPCA commercials or whatever they are with Sarah McLaughlin. Now all you have to do is hear her voice and you associate it with injured and abandoned animals.
    But that's just my take. Can I have Wild West Laws brought back please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    (yes, I am all for capital punishment!) --.
    I used to be too .. till I learned of the many innocent people executed by the state(s) ...

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    ...I'm still for it, regardless.

    And a whole lot more quickly applied.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 12-26-2012 at 03:06 AM.

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I used to be too .. till I learned of the many innocent people executed by the state(s) ...
    The death penalty is God ordained. Its a pity man cannot get things right regarding its implamentation. Then the states seem to get many things wrong these days. If its anything like downunder its, look aften themselves first, second and allways, forget the constituents!
    When a criminal invades your home and has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.

    My Definition of Gun Control: The idea that dozens of people found dead in the Broadway Café, Tasmania, and many also seriously wounded, all while waiting for police, who were called to show up and protect them, is somehow morally superior to having several armed and therefore alive civilian's explaining to police how the attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz. View Post
    The death penalty is God ordained. Its a pity man cannot get things right regarding its implamentation. Then the states seem to get many things wrong these days. If its anything like downunder its, look aften themselves first, second and allways, forget the constituents!
    This is the reason I'm opposed to the death penalty.

    Its not a matter of justice or whether anybody deserves to die for a certain crime. Its whether government can be trusted to get it right. Nope. Too much prosecutorial immunity, too many evidentiary errors innocent and deliberate, career-oriented prosecutions, people pressured or tricked into false confessions, whacky evidence, etc., etc., etc. Too many innocent people convicted of capital crimes--remember a few years ago when the governor of (Ohio?) shut down death row because 25% of death-row inmates were found to be either innocent or serious questions had been raised about their convictions?

    Nope. Can't trust government with anything else; no reason to think they're gonna get right the processes that lead up to an execution.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    4 firefighters shot, 2 dead in upstate N.Y

    Again mental health seems to be the reason, fundamental reason.

    The guy killed already, with a hammer... His grandma! What in the hell was he doing free and roaming around? He could have used a car, poison or whatever else!

    I guess, I'm now understanding what zombies really are.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TNTTNT187's Avatar
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    Caught red handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    This is the reason I'm opposed to the death penalty.

    Its not a matter of justice or whether anybody deserves to die for a certain crime. Its whether government can be trusted to get it right. Nope. Too much prosecutorial immunity, too many evidentiary errors innocent and deliberate, career-oriented prosecutions, people pressured or tricked into false confessions, whacky evidence, etc., etc., etc. Too many innocent people convicted of capital crimes--remember a few years ago when the governor of (Ohio?) shut down death row because 25% of death-row inmates were found to be either innocent or serious questions had been raised about their convictions?

    Nope. Can't trust government with anything else; no reason to think they're gonna get right the processes that lead up to an execution.
    There will be some cases when the perp. is caught red handed (pun intended) during the crime, capital offense. There was the Petit case in Conn. with 2 perps. that held a family hostage. 1 went to the bank with the wife to get money, the bank tellers called police, they killed the wife and 2 daughters, beat the husband near death with a hammer. Police surrounded the house and caught them leaving. I think they may have set the house on fire as a distraction not sure. Slam dunk for death penalty. We should not have to pay for that type of evil to eat and sit in jail till they die. I do agree with you that if it's possible to fawk things up in a capital murder case the Gov. sure will.

  21. #21
    Regular Member REDDIRT's Avatar
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    4 firefighters shot, 2 dead in upstate N.Y

    Great there goes the bic lighters or did he use a match! Only because a ar-15 was used it made the nations news I wish they would make it illegal for news crews to stay on scene more than a hour and over report.will cut down on copy cats

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    Police have made an arrest in the case. A neighbor bought the weapons for the guy. http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/28/justic...Top+Stories%29

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    Quote Originally Posted by kunclebuc View Post
    Police have made an arrest in the case. A neighbor bought the weapons for the guy. http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/28/justic...Top+Stories%29
    seems the media is changing their story AGAIN! even the vid of the press release stating the arrest states one .223 rifle and one 12 guage shotgun, and previous reports mentioned the same. but the written article below the vid states TWO .223 rifles??? wow. just wow.

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