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Reality bites.

WalkingWolf

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By asking questions,by having a resonable discussion to a question asked,trying to explan one way or the other is infringeing on the rights of someone.

Did you ask questions? I must have missed that, I also missed the reasonable discussion, and the question asked. There was no trying to explain why one way is better, it was only saying one way was bad. Same old carpola...

Ohhh wait I forgot about the insinuation you made towards me. Was that the questions you are talking about?
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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northern wis
Did you ask questions? I must have missed that, I also missed the reasonable discussion, and the question asked. There was no trying to explain why one way is better, it was only saying one way was bad. Same old carpola...

Ohhh wait I forgot about the insinuation you made towards me. Was that the questions you are talking about?


What questions was asked the very frist one heres the quote from the the frist post.


"From time to time, the issue of carrying with an empty chamber vs one in the pipe comes up and gets quite a bit of responses, some of which can be heated. So I thought that this posting might be of interest to those who either carry like this or are thinking about doing so. As always comments are welcome."

The question I asked you was did you carry a empty chamber as a working LEO.

Seems to fit with the frist post.

I can say I nevered carried with a empty chamber when I was working. Why would I promote something differant where legal and the firearm was safe to use that way.


You or anyone else can carry any legal way they want nobody here is saying other wise.
 

WalkingWolf

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What questions was asked the very frist one heres the quote from the the frist post.


"From time to time, the issue of carrying with an empty chamber vs one in the pipe comes up and gets quite a bit of responses, some of which can be heated. So I thought that this posting might be of interest to those who either carry like this or are thinking about doing so. As always comments are welcome."

The question I asked you was did you carry a empty chamber as a working LEO.

Seems to fit with the frist post.

I can say I nevered carried with a empty chamber when I was working. Why would I promote something differant where legal and the firearm was safe to use that way.


You or anyone else can carry any legal way they want nobody here is saying other wise.

There was no questions, only claims of questions in the articles, there certainly were no questions in the thread. Only comments as to why condition 3 is bad, and those doing it are bad people. My former employment has nothing to do with the thread or the OP and was a childish ignorant stupid asinine attempt at insulting. You should grow up, I believe it is unsafe for immature adults to carry.

Let me remind of the title to the thread "Reality bites" pretty much sets the tone and direction of any debate, and the bias nature of both the OP and first posters.
 
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SouthernBoy

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After getting the information people are free to do as they see fit.


WalkingWolf didn't you read that line , your a bit touchy.

In a lots of your other posts you make lot ref to being former LEO or are you just playing a wantabe one.

Yeah, he does doesn't he.

The context of my post was for those who ask questions, seek opinions, and try to gain some insight, knowledge, and the lessons of experience from others, and present their requests on websites where they feel they can receive what they seek. The man in the article I presented has his opinion and he was giving it because it would come up frequently in the courses he teaches. I posted the link for those who wish to discuss this topic which appears from time to time on these forums. Some folks honestly do want to hear what others have to say about things and there is nothing wrong with that. It is my belief we are all members of this site to share our experiences, our knowledge, and to learn from one another. In the process, we are fortunate to develop friendships along the way.

My personal feeling about topic this is similar to WalkingWolf's view. I know what I will or won't do, but I will not try to impose my views on others. I will offer my opinions when asked and the reasons I have them, but the bottom line is as he stated, though I may state it a little differently. How one carries is up to them and them alone. They may find out whether or not they took the right decision if and when the time comes they ever have to draw upon their sidearm. And even then, they will only know if they were right for that instant case. Yet it IS up to them to do as they see fit.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.
 

SouthernBoy

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Southern Boy, sorry i disagree with one of your comments where you state kept your comments (biases) out!! you only pushed one article saying keep one in the chamber!! i see which way you are sitting on the fence...SO no your post was not a FAIR contribution to the on going discussion but rather a rehash of your bias...

shall we put it in another context...a brand new thread reader decides this is his very first thread to read...they are expecting a balanced discussion on a subject yet finds your post and article which states 'one should be kept in the chamber' w/o any discussion of the rational for not maintaining one in the chamber. Therefore, you have skewed their perception and no matter what anybody says...he read it here first and assimilated it and preaches it to all who will listen...all from your 'unbiased post'

bottom line Southern Boy, you have ingratiated your biases and eliminated the 'freedom' the new reader should have experienced in making up their own mind.

Firearm Instructor...do you now understand the difference...advise was not asked but rather a biased slant was presented w/o a counter.


wabbit

ps: Firearm Instructor...when giving advice...do you present the counter or from a perspective...or from the perspective 'what are you dumb' why would you carry a firearm w/o one chambered? i personally suspect your response is the latter...sigh

I disagree with your assessment but I see where you're getting it from. See my post below where I try to clear up any misgivings. If we were to do as you suggest with every post that initiated a topic, we'd have some interesting exchanges going on - as we're seeing here. Regardless, I do have an opinion as I'm sure everyone else does about any number of things that come up on these forums.

But it is my thread and I presented it as I saw fit. If anyone else wishes to start their own thread about this topic, be my guest.
 

SouthernBoy

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There was no questions, only claims of questions in the articles, there certainly were no questions in the thread. Only comments as to why condition 3 is bad, and those doing it are bad people. My former employment has nothing to do with the thread or the OP and was a childish ignorant stupid asinine attempt at insulting. You should grow up, I believe it is unsafe for immature adults to carry.

Let me remind of the title to the thread "Reality bites" pretty much sets the tone and direction of any debate, and the bias nature of both the OP and first posters.

I chose that title because reality does bite... in so many ways, we can't count them. It could have been "Reality surprises" or "Reality hurts" and any one of a number of phrases. Even the word "Reality" might lead some to lay a claim of bias (starting to sound PC-oriented here).

Frankly, I'm beginning to think it was a mistake to offer this link in a post on this forum based upon some of the comments which have appeared. I could borrow paraphrased comment from WalkingWolf and say, "I could give a rat's a-- what you people think or do", but that is not how I was brought up and not how I prefer to respond to folks, although admittedly it is how I feel at times on these and other forums.

Gentlemen, the original post was made with good intent and without any thoughts or concerns that feathers might be ruffled. Take it as you will because I don't give a rat's a--.
 

ncwabbit

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Nov 2, 2011
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rural religious usa
SVG, guess i didn't ask the wizard the right question in the right tone of voice when i searched...

fm 2009 gun forums.net by Janq: quote:
Carrying a handgun with no round in the chamber, hammer down and the magazine otherwise full, or cylinder if it's a revolver, is referred to as being in 'Condition 3'.
It has become to be known as "Israeli Carry" only because in the early days of the IDF they were given surplus arms by NATO countries toward use in establishing a police force and military. The handguns in specific were of all manner of sort and function and at that time they had no base type of handgun to centralize around. Further in those days drop safeties and now modern handgun manufacture methods were not the norm as they are today.

So as a manner of training and practical application in those early days all armed personnel carried their handguns as Condition 3 exclusively, which became known as 'Israeli Carry'. It was the best they could do in those times for themself. Further world wide this was normal because 40 yrs. ago drop safeties and such were not normative. unquote

the last sentence puts the entire situation into perspective for my cotton tail...

wabbit
 
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Gil223

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Jan 5, 2012
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Location
Weber County Utah
By asking questions,by having a resonable discussion to a question asked,trying to explan one way or the other is infringeing on the rights of someone.
Did you intend to end that sentence with a question mark, or is it simply a statement of how you see things? If it is a statement, then I ask - are you here to infringe on somebody's rights? I'm not - and if you are, you're doing a very poor job of it because I haven't noticed that to be your intent. I'm here for the "discussion" - the open exchange of thoughts, ideas and opinions. And, if a person who feels their right(s) have been infringed upon by something someone else posted, they then have the right to either ignore the post or respond to it. (Although many of us try, we are often less than perfect in the way we explain some of our thoughts, ideas and opinions.) ;) Pax...
 

Gil223

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Your contention that I am trying to stifle anyone is bovine scatology. In fact I against stifling people and telling them how to do whatever they do. I am for free choice to carry. I did not point to any one specific type of carry as others have, and try to tell them it is unsafe, or whatever CACA. Again it is none of your business how other people carry, or mine. YOU are attempting to stifle MY free speech to get the message out that those who would infringe on others rights in any fashion should "BUGGER OFF!"

Hope that clears it up for you...

Chill, WW! I never said you couldn't tell the entire world to "BUGGER OFF", if that's what you wish to do. I just observed that it's possible to "perceive such comments as being in contravention of the same "freedom" you exercise and espouse". Perception is an activity of the reader, not the poster! The poster should not be blamed (and I DID NOT place blame) for how others perceive things... unless it is the posters intent to disturb others. As I said in another recent post, "Although many of us try, we are often less than perfect in the way we explain some of our thoughts, ideas and opinions." If your perception was that I was hammering on you, then I do apologize for wording my post in such a fashion that it could be perceived by you as hammering.
:dude: Pax...
 

HankT

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Personally I don't know any LEOs that carry there duty weapon with a unloaded chamber.



andy+barney+fife.jpg
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
Every single military police officer carries with a empty chamber. Such ignorance is amazing by so called second amendment supporters...

BTW you may want to brush up on your reading comprehension since I never said I carried condition 3, in fact I responded that I carried condition 2. But I understand if you are not capable of understanding the obvious. It also amazes me the ones whining the most about me attacking them are the ones who actually have thrown personal insults.

HankT is that you in that picture BTW? Are you pretending to be a cop?
 
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WalkingWolf

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BTW since you were not only trying to insult me, but Don Knotts also let me clear something up for you. Don never was a police officer, he was a gifted actor with something like 5 Emmy awards, and well loved by those that he entertained. How many Emmy's do you have? He was very intelligent talented man, so even though he is shorter, thinner, with less hair, and did I mention dead other than that I don't see the insult value. But then I don't think you have the grey matter to catch on to that.

By your posts I would liken you to probably Ozzie Osborn, but then Ozzie might get mad at me, that really would not be fair to Ozzie, he has talent.
 

SFCRetired

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Montgomery, Alabama, USA
What is "Israeli Style"?

tyc

Since everyone seems to be ignoring this question, I'll give it a shot: "Israeli" style is carrying with an empty chamber which makes it necessary to rack the slide on an automatic as you draw. From what I have been told, it was because some of the early Israeli pistols were notoriously unsafe with a round in the chamber.

Modern firearms, for the most part, are safe with a round in the chamber (semi-automatic) or a round under the hammer (revolver).
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Since everyone seems to be ignoring this question, I'll give it a shot: "Israeli" style is carrying with an empty chamber which makes it necessary to rack the slide on an automatic as you draw. From what I have been told, it was because some of the early Israeli pistols were notoriously unsafe with a round in the chamber.

Modern firearms, for the most part, are safe with a round in the chamber (semi-automatic) or a round under the hammer (revolver).

I thought that was answered in post number 14 not well as you did but answered.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Did you intend to end that sentence with a question mark, or is it simply a statement of how you see things? If it is a statement, then I ask - are you here to infringe on somebody's rights? I'm not - and if you are, you're doing a very poor job of it because I haven't noticed that to be your intent. I'm here for the "discussion" - the open exchange of thoughts, ideas and opinions. And, if a person who feels their right(s) have been infringed upon by something someone else posted, they then have the right to either ignore the post or respond to it. (Although many of us try, we are often less than perfect in the way we explain some of our thoughts, ideas and opinions.) ;) Pax...

Should of had a ?
 

Freedom1Man

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Greater Eastside Washington
Thanks for the info.

We can carry fully loaded openly no permits necessary, but must have a permit to carry "loaded" in a vehicle or to conceal a loaded firearm, from my recollection a magazine inserted into your firearm is considered loaded even with nothing in the chamber.

In my attempt not fall on the wrong side of the law before I got my government permission slip (something I really resisted doing, but caved due to the inconveniences not possessing one created) I too carried without one in the chamber.

I agree with you though that the berating of others for how they care is tiresome and unnecessary.

It would seem that your memory is spot on.

(10) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
 
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