• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

HB 1012 An order to retreat

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Alpine, great job. Do you think you could get a copy of the "list" and publish (out them) it here?

I too would like to see this list. And then I would do my best to publish an article about how people who are supposed to protect our rights against the state and tyranny are doing there damnedest to make us defenseless sheep and property of the state.
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
He told me he'd send it to me as soon as he gets it and I'll post it here for you guys.

HOWEVER, this Rep. Appleton and her aide Donna might not hand over that list it because it either:
A. does not exist
or
B. it might be insignificant and wind up humiliating her.
or
C. would allow us to contact and/or "out" these people and then she'd be afraid they'd withdraw their support.

Is there a way to do a lawful info. request regarding this if she will not publish the list?
I know it doesn't seem very official, but to me, a list of public officials on the state's payroll who are endorsing a rep.'s bill and that rep is using them as justification for that bill's passage seems like it would benefit the public to be known.
 
Last edited:

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
He told me he'd send it to me as soon as he gets it and I'll post it here for you guys.

HOWEVER, this Rep. Appleton and her aide Donna might not hand over that list it because it either:
A. does not exist
or
B. it might be insignificant and wind up humiliating her.
or
C. would allow us to contact and/or "out" these people and then she'd be afraid they'd withdraw their support.

Is there a way to do a lawful info. request regarding this if she will not publish the list?
I know it doesn't seem very official, but to me, a list of public officials on the state's payroll who are endorsing a rep.'s bill and that rep is using them as justification for that bill's passage seems like it would benefit the public to be known.

I personally feel she is talking out her ass.

Let's not forget who gets up and testifies for just about every infringement of rights we get........state costumed agents....They just need the "tools" to keep us safe and do their job. Tools being a code word for destruction of rights supposedly protected by common law or our constitutions.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
He told me he'd send it to me as soon as he gets it and I'll post it here for you guys.

HOWEVER, this Rep. Appleton and her aide Donna might not hand over that list it because it either:
A. does not exist
or
B. it might be insignificant and wind up humiliating her.
or
C. would allow us to contact and/or "out" these people and then she'd be afraid they'd withdraw their support.

Is there a way to do a lawful info. request regarding this if she will not publish the list?
I know it doesn't seem very official, but to me, a list of public officials on the state's payroll who are endorsing a rep.'s bill and that rep is using them as justification for that bill's passage seems like it would benefit the public to be known.

I don't know, are letters to a state rep public record? because that's what we're talking about at this point.

now, if this bill gets to committee, and judges and cops come to testify FOR it then that would be one thing. frankly I think only high ranking police officials who's job is at the pleasure of some extreme left wing mayor like in Seattle for example will come and testify. I doubt any beat cop protected by civil service or a union contract will come and testify FOR this bill.

kind of like the previous assault weapons bill that got to committee, where the Bellevue Chief of Police testified "in her experience" that a civilian AR could be easily converted a full auto weapon (but apparently these machine shops could not easily convert a ban compliant weapon to full auto) I frankly think the only reason she showed was becuase the Bellevue mayor or city council wanted that legislation passed due to ideology.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Letters and emails between public officials is information we have a right to view.

From my experience though they will find ways around giving you the information you want.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Spot on SVG. I have the answer already.


Dear John,
Just as I don't forward or reveal your e-mails, I won't reveal the names of people who support this action. You will have to wait on the hearing until it is scheduled. Session starts the 14th of January and I have no idea when it will be on the agenda.


Sherry
Representative Sherry Appleton
Washington State House of Representatives
23rd Legislative District
360 786-7934
360 697-2588
Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2012, at 10:44 AM, "John Laigaie III"

Hello Sherry I hope your holiday was safe and filled with joy
I understand that you have quite a list of local Law officers that have come to you supporting this action. I am requesting the names of those officers and any other public official who has endorsed this action. I am sure you want your term to be an example of transparency in government.
In addition I, and many others, are patiently waiting for you to inform us as to when we may speak against this assault on Washington's Citizens Rights.
Thank you for your time, MSG John Laigaie
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
We need to make WA a "one party" state so that I could record my calls, especially the one to her.

you should've heard Donna, she was pissed despite my professional demeanor when speaking to her.

And she really did claim cops and judges were supporting Sherry's bill. But she said it in a way that implied that the vast majority of cops and judges wanted this...

I'm yet to meet a police officer who I think would support this bill limiting self defense. I mean it's true gun owners have had problems with the cops in terms of search and seizure and detention wise, but very rarely is there a problem with guns or self defense itself. During a public presentation I was at Sheriff Steve Boyer of Kitsap County even openly said he really care if felons were shot in self defense, and other members have mentioned that Boyer encourages CPLs and his office issues them quickly. Keep in mind, Boyer is the sheriff on the county in which most of Appleton's district lie. so my guess is Sheriff Steve isn't lobbying for this bill...

and what do superior court judges care?

You know who I think wants this bill, although I can't prove it. Russ Hauge, the Prosecutor of Kitsap County, he has shown a strong anti-gun bias and has chanrged numerous LACs for acts of self defense. I don't think the judges or the cops want it, I think the DA wants it.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Retreat? How about charging the criminal with the crime!

Pierce County prosecutors have charged a 20-year-old man who was shot June 19th while allegedly breaking into a Tacoma home.
Christopher Rhodes is set to be arraigned this afternoon on one count of residential burglary.
“The defendant was caught in the act and lawfully shot,” Prosecutor Mark Lindquist said. “Now, he’s going to be held accountable for the burglary. This case is another reminder that breaking into people’s homes can land you in the hospital or prison, if you aren’t killed.”
Charging papers give this account:
A man was home alone June 19[SUP]th[/SUP] when he heard knocking on the front door, which he ignored. Moments later, the man heard someone prying open a window so grabbed a shotgun and called 911.
After Rhodes smashed a bay window and climbed into the home, the homeowner fired a single shot, hitting Rhodes in the face.
Rhodes, bleeding from the face and arms, ran to a nearby home and asked two men sitting in a garage watching television to hide him. He then collapsed.
Rhodes was taken to a hospital, where he was treated for the gunshot wound.
Police found a cell phone on Rhodes that had an application that allowed him to monitor police radio broadcasts.

Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crim...omeowner-charged-with-break-in/#storylink=cpy
 

Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
Dear John:
- I am sorry, but we are a shadow government, and transparancy should really be a one way mirror.
- Please feel free to write again if there are any other concerns you would like to have dismissed.

Sherry "The Gov" Appleton
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
Spot on SVG. I have the answer already.


Dear John,
Just as I don't forward or reveal your e-mails, I won't reveal the names of people who support this action. You will have to wait on the hearing until it is scheduled. Session starts the 14th of January and I have no idea when it will be on the agenda.


Sherry
Representative Sherry Appleton
Washington State House of Representatives
23rd Legislative District
360 786-7934
360 697-2588
Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2012, at 10:44 AM, "John Laigaie III"

Hello Sherry I hope your holiday was safe and filled with joy
I understand that you have quite a list of local Law officers that have come to you supporting this action. I am requesting the names of those officers and any other public official who has endorsed this action. I am sure you want your term to be an example of transparency in government.
In addition I, and many others, are patiently waiting for you to inform us as to when we may speak against this assault on Washington's Citizens Rights.
Thank you for your time, MSG John Laigaie

It sounds like time for a Letter to the Editor.

How different from publishing the names of those that supported her election bid.
 
Last edited:

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
We need to make WA a "one party" state so that I could record my calls, especially the one to her.

you should've heard Donna, she was pissed despite my professional demeanor when speaking to her.

And she really did claim cops and judges were supporting Sherry's bill. But she said it in a way that implied that the vast majority of cops and judges wanted this...

I'm yet to meet a police officer who I think would support this bill limiting self defense. I mean it's true gun owners have had problems with the cops in terms of search and seizure and detention wise, but very rarely is there a problem with guns or self defense itself. During a public presentation I was at Sheriff Steve Boyer of Kitsap County even openly said he really care if felons were shot in self defense, and other members have mentioned that Boyer encourages CPLs and his office issues them quickly. Keep in mind, Boyer is the sheriff on the county in which most of Appleton's district lie. so my guess is Sheriff Steve isn't lobbying for this bill...

and what do superior court judges care?

You know who I think wants this bill, although I can't prove it. Russ Hauge, the Prosecutor of Kitsap County, he has shown a strong anti-gun bias and has chanrged numerous LACs for acts of self defense. I don't think the judges or the cops want it, I think the DA wants it.

Call from Federally recognized tribal land. :p

I don't think anyone doubts she claimed this, I certainly don't, but it leads me to two conclusions she is blowing smoke out her rear, or she does have a few supporters of the ilk she claims. Not all cops are pro gun and pro self defense, especially metro types, and many judges are ex prosecutors, and there are plenty of examples of overzealous prosecutors.

You can request the communications between your sheriff and her office.

On a side note I personally feel, she doesn't have an expectation of privacy in her phone calls to you.....but not sure if I'd be a test case. Flora and Sequim both state these laws were to protect citizens from government and not meant as a double edge sword.
 
Last edited:

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Open records act....

emails should be public documents, while names may be 'redacted' it would still show the volume of her supposed claim. Which I agree she is blowing smoker out her derriere....
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
"Appleton, Rep. Sherry" <Sherry.Appleton@leg.wa.gov>

Well this is the email addy that sherry uses for business. As far as I am concerned, the leg.wa.gov is just another way to say "the People of Washington". Looks like a freedom of info request. How do you think I should word it?
 

Whitney

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
435
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
Ask for them FOIA

She tried this last year with knives, also claiming the police asked for the knife law, when pressured she conceded it was ill connived and a bad law.

You can get any and all correspondence she claims to have. It may be redacted but you have to ask for it.
Start with the Public Disclosure Commission, link to public records request is found under the public resources menu.


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=42.56.070

RCW 42.56.070Documents and indexes to be made public.
(f) Correspondence, and materials referred to therein, by and with the agency relating to any regulatory, supervisory, or enforcement responsibilities of the agency, whereby the agency determines, or opines upon, or is asked to determine or opine upon, the rights of the state, the public, a subdivision of state government, or of any private party.



Here is what I used.


~Whitney
 
Last edited:

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I sent a letter to Appleton's office

Representative Sherry Appleton,
23rd Legislative District
Washington House of Representatives

I am writing this letter to informally request information, I am however willing to file a public disclosure request for information if your office requires said request.
The information being requested is as follows.

All communications between your office and the office of any public officials currently serving in the state of Washington including but not limited to,
>Sheriffs
>Coroners
>County Commissioners
>Prosecuting Attorneys
>Superior Court Judges

and any deputies, officers, employees, interns, etc authorized by those elected officials to communicate on their behalf, regarding support, endorsements, opposition, or taking any position on House Bill 1012 within the scope of their public employment or while identifying themselves as a public official. This request includes the following communications,
>electronic mail
>Telephone
>”Text messaging”
>and any memos, documents, etc between your office and that of the any above listed public official showing a position on proposed legislation now known as “House Bill 1012.”

This request DOES NOT include any communications between your office and any private citizen regarding any legislation.

As I am sure you are aware, RCW 42.56.050 states that invasion of privacy occurs only when…

A person's "right to privacy," "right of privacy," "privacy," or "personal privacy," as these terms are used in this chapter, is invaded or violated only if disclosure of information about the person: (1) Would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, and (2) is not of legitimate concern to the public.

As this legislation can have the potential to subject victims of violent crimes to criminal prosecution for self-defense, the elected officials using their positions to influence said legislation is of legitimate concern to the public.


Respectfully,

Erik ******
South Kitsap
 
Last edited:
Top