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Thread: A summary of the 2013 AWB Directly from Mrs. Feinstein website...

  1. #1
    Regular Member reillo584's Avatar
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    Thumbs down A summary of the 2013 AWB Directly from Mrs. Feinstein website...

    The way that I see it, It lets the door wide open for my handguns to be ban as well...

    http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...ssault-weapons
    Last edited by reillo584; 12-27-2012 at 03:12 PM.

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    Regular Member Lante's Avatar
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    National Registration registration???? Sounds like what they have wanted from the beginning!!!!! One Characteristic test I suppose that could be sights, a barrel or a trigger. lol! Time to start putting pressure on our legislators!


    Summary of 2013 legislation

    Following is a summary of the 2013 legislation:

    Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
    120 specifically-named firearms;
    Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and
    Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
    Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
    Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
    Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
    Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.
    Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.
    Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
    Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
    Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
    Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.
    Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
    Background check of owner and any transferee;
    Type and serial number of the firearm;
    Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
    Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
    Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Below is a letter I am sending to my representatives regarding this legislation. It is perhaps long winded, but I wanted to make a point that what Feinstein is proposing is preposterous and pointless.

    Representative so and so:

    Like all Americans, I was deeply shocked and saddened by the massacre of over 25 people in Newtown, Connecticut earlier this month. Many of those victims were children. I cannot comprehend how any person could conceive of committing such an act. I do believe it is in the interests of American society to try to prevent such incidents from happening again, but it has come to my attention that what Congress and the White House is considering will only hurt law abiding citizens and consequently do nothing to impact the possibility of such massacres from occurring in the future.

    Senator Diane Feinstein of California is keeping her word that when Congress convenes early next January, she will immediately put to the floor a ban on the sale, transfer, and manufacturing of many popular rifles in use by American civilians as well as the magazines that accompany them. Her legislation supposedly will also turn those weapons under the ban already in the possession of civilians into NFA Class 3 items, therefore requiring registration, special permissions to use and transport them, and forfeiture to the government upon the death of the owner as well as many other conditions and restrictions. It is easily conceivable that such legislation would enable forfeiture of a person's 4th and 5th Amendment rights under unspecified circumstances, unlawful seizure of lawfully owned property, undignified encroachment of the government into citizen's private affairs, and lay the foundation for eventual forcible seizure of weapons owned by American citizens. When the government says "we will honor your civil rights, trust us," it is very much a cause for concern.

    The AR-15 and similar firearms targeted by Senator Feinstein's proposal are perhaps the most versatile ones available to citizens. They can be used for just about any purpose: hunting, competition, target shooting, and defense. I would hardly call them impractical for citizens to own. I also find it unconscionable that the US Government sends such arms to criminal organizations in Mexico to "track" them (Fast and Furious) and repeatedly considers arming rebel groups in Arab countries that say they are hostile to the US yet the same government (ours) wants to disarm its own citizens.

    I have in the past 3 years have had a couple of incidents where my possession of a firearm rapidly de-escalated potentially dangerous situations. In both cases, my firearm didn't even have to be presented; the belligerents saw I had the capacity to defend myself and reconsidered their actions without any shots fired or blood shed. Senator Feinstein and others would take that ability away from me if they could. This legislation will empower them to do so.

    I should also point out that the mere threat of a weapons ban has put more of these firearms and magazines into circulation than any time previously. I am having a great deal of trouble finding magazines and ammunition and when they are in stock, the prices for them are much higher than they were even a month ago. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the ban?

    The precedent such legislation would enable is to my eye extremely dangerous to the rights we enjoy as Americans. This "idea" does not even touch the real issue behind why the massacre occurred. A brilliant (book smart) yet disturbed and isolated individual needed serious mental help and he never got it. Why isn't Congress addressing mental health? I would think that re-classifying mental conditions that would prohibit a person from possessing a firearm would be called for, but I see no action on that front.

    Congress is also not pushing for keeping the media from putting every available piece of information about a mass shooter to the general public. Such action clearly "idolizes" the individual, gives him the attention he is seeking, and empowers others in a similar state to consider such acts to get attention. Yet such concerns would violate the First Amendment. I therefore conclude that the actions Feinstein is proposing is not only not helpful, but hypocritical.

    So called "assault" weapons are used in a very small number of crimes and a ban does nothing but put an incredible burden on law abiding citizens, turning them into criminals and creates additional strains on a government that is fiscally reaching its breaking point.

    I understand this email is long winded, but I contend this issue is extremely important to me. I wish I could snap my fingers and make all forms of violence stop, but that is simply not possible. Disarming law abiding citizens or turning them into criminals simply because they own a certain weapon goes against the very tenants of what it means to be American. I implore you to oppose this and any legislation directed at punishing responsible law abiding citizens for the acts of one or two mentally unstable individuals. I will also be sending similar messages to my other representatives in Congress. Thank you for your time and consideration and I would appreciate a response.

    Signed, Me

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    You know I went thru this before in California after the Stockton school yard shooting and 101 California. The two best arguments are 1

    semi auto rifles save lives, like in the rodney king riots, the asian store owners that didn't get looted had rifles, Katrina, holocuast,

    rosewood, guns save lives. 2 focus on the mentally ill of all these mass shooters what are their profiles. And don't forget this last

    shooting would have never have happened if the owner of the fire arms had locked the guns up in a combo safe and she was the only one

    who new the combonation. The only way we are going to beat this ban is by showing solutions for these mentally ill shooters.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    I've also got my own personal letter ready to send off to my congressional reps as well as my state reps to counter ceasefire wa. well see if it does any good.

    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

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    Contact Info

    For anyone that would like contact info to send a letter or email to their representatives.

    Subject to change when new elected officials take over.

    http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/elected_officials.aspx

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/pages/home.aspx

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Below is a letter I am sending to my representatives regarding this legislation. It is perhaps long winded, but I wanted to make a point that what Feinstein is proposing is preposterous and pointless.

    Representative so and so:

    Like all Americans, I was deeply shocked and saddened by the massacre of over 25 people in Newtown, Connecticut earlier this month. Many of those victims were children. I cannot comprehend how any person could conceive of committing such an act. I do believe it is in the interests of American society to try to prevent such incidents from happening again, but it has come to my attention that what Congress and the White House is considering will only hurt law abiding citizens and consequently do nothing to impact the possibility of such massacres from occurring in the future.

    Senator Diane Feinstein of California is keeping her word that when Congress convenes early next January, she will immediately put to the floor a ban on the sale, transfer, and manufacturing of many popular rifles in use by American civilians as well as the magazines that accompany them. Her legislation supposedly will also turn those weapons under the ban already in the possession of civilians into NFA Class 3 items, therefore requiring registration, special permissions to use and transport them, and forfeiture to the government upon the death of the owner as well as many other conditions and restrictions. It is easily conceivable that such legislation would enable forfeiture of a person's 4th and 5th Amendment rights under unspecified circumstances, unlawful seizure of lawfully owned property, undignified encroachment of the government into citizen's private affairs, and lay the foundation for eventual forcible seizure of weapons owned by American citizens. When the government says "we will honor your civil rights, trust us," it is very much a cause for concern.

    The AR-15 and similar firearms targeted by Senator Feinstein's proposal are perhaps the most versatile ones available to citizens. They can be used for just about any purpose: hunting, competition, target shooting, and defense. I would hardly call them impractical for citizens to own. I also find it unconscionable that the US Government sends such arms to criminal organizations in Mexico to "track" them (Fast and Furious) and repeatedly considers arming rebel groups in Arab countries that say they are hostile to the US yet the same government (ours) wants to disarm its own citizens.

    I have in the past 3 years have had a couple of incidents where my possession of a firearm rapidly de-escalated potentially dangerous situations. In both cases, my firearm didn't even have to be presented; the belligerents saw I had the capacity to defend myself and reconsidered their actions without any shots fired or blood shed. Senator Feinstein and others would take that ability away from me if they could. This legislation will empower them to do so.

    I should also point out that the mere threat of a weapons ban has put more of these firearms and magazines into circulation than any time previously. I am having a great deal of trouble finding magazines and ammunition and when they are in stock, the prices for them are much higher than they were even a month ago. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the ban?

    The precedent such legislation would enable is to my eye extremely dangerous to the rights we enjoy as Americans. This "idea" does not even touch the real issue behind why the massacre occurred. A brilliant (book smart) yet disturbed and isolated individual needed serious mental help and he never got it. Why isn't Congress addressing mental health? I would think that re-classifying mental conditions that would prohibit a person from possessing a firearm would be called for, but I see no action on that front.

    Congress is also not pushing for keeping the media from putting every available piece of information about a mass shooter to the general public. Such action clearly "idolizes" the individual, gives him the attention he is seeking, and empowers others in a similar state to consider such acts to get attention. Yet such concerns would violate the First Amendment. I therefore conclude that the actions Feinstein is proposing is not only not helpful, but hypocritical.

    So called "assault" weapons are used in a very small number of crimes and a ban does nothing but put an incredible burden on law abiding citizens, turning them into criminals and creates additional strains on a government that is fiscally reaching its breaking point.

    I understand this email is long winded, but I contend this issue is extremely important to me. I wish I could snap my fingers and make all forms of violence stop, but that is simply not possible. Disarming law abiding citizens or turning them into criminals simply because they own a certain weapon goes against the very tenants of what it means to be American. I implore you to oppose this and any legislation directed at punishing responsible law abiding citizens for the acts of one or two mentally unstable individuals. I will also be sending similar messages to my other representatives in Congress. Thank you for your time and consideration and I would appreciate a response.

    Signed, Me
    Dear ACmariner, your letter contains more then 10 paragraphs and 2 or more "facts" it is therefore a military style hit capacity assault letter and thus cannot be considered by the Senator at this time
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    We are going to be up against mass media. I have registered on every left wing anti gun news outlet, so I can rapid deploy pro gun counter

    arguments with pictures to persuade the conversation that mental health and owner resposibility is the way to solve this problem, not gun

    bans. I suggest everyone else do the same, to stop the tidal wave that is coming. This is going to be won in public opinon.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Germany just went to a national weapon registration. It is mandatory for all EU nations to enact a mandatory national registration by 2015. Germany was just the first to make it law. Did they not do this once before in the thirty's?
    I do not want to be european. I do not want to support europe by "adopting" standard laws like them.

    I keep hearing things like "from my cold, dead......", "they will get the bullets first", and others. Thoughts like this can be considered insurrectionist. Ban/confiscation/registration are always met with resistance in the past. Would a threat of something of this scale, knowing the reaction of the people, be considered "inciting insurrection"? Three elections ago it was a 50-50 win. the next one got less than fifty percent but a win. Again this year less than fifty but a win. The country is severely divided and arguing among ourselves will effect national security. I do not think this is a good time to disarm the Free Public.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Dear ACmariner, your letter contains more then 10 paragraphs and 2 or more "facts" it is therefore a military style hit capacity assault letter and thus cannot be considered by the Senator at this time
    Muahaha -- you have seen through my evil plan. I suppose I could send my letter two paragraphs at a time.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Muahaha -- you have seen through my evil plan. I suppose I could send my letter two paragraphs at a time.
    Remember, more than one paragraph per "send" is considered illegal.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member Sharpender's Avatar
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    Re: A summary of the 2013 AWB Directly from Mrs. Feinstein website...

    I wonder if history will remember that it was Mrs. Feinstein and her legislation that started a new civil war in the U.S.

    Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
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    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    How they plan to do it....

    It's nice that we're finally talking about gun control. It's very sad that it took such a terrible tragedy to talk about it, but I'm glad the conversation is happening. I hear a lot about assault weapon and large magazine bans, and whilst I'm supportive of that, it won't solve the problem. The vast majority of firearm deaths occur with handguns. Only about 5% of people killed by guns are killed by guns which would be banned in any foreseeable AWB.

    Furthermore, there seems to be no talk about high powered rifles. What gun nuts don't want you to know is many target and hunting rifles are chambered in the same round (.223/5.56mm) that Lanza's assault weapon was. Even more guns are chambered for more powerful rounds, like the .30-06 or (my personal "favorite") 7.62x54R. Even a .22, the smallest round manufactured on a large scale, can kill easily. In fact, some say the .22 kills more people than any other round out there.

    Again, I like that we're talking about assault weapons, machine guns, and high capacity clips. But it only takes one bullet out of one gun to kill a person. Remember the beltway sniper back in 2002? The one who killed a dozen odd people? Even though he used a bushmaster assault rifle, he only fired one round at a time before moving. He could have used literally any rifle sold in the US for his attacks.

    The only way we can truly be safe and prevent further gun violence is to ban civilian ownership of all guns. That means everything. No pistols, no revolvers, no semiautomatic or automatic rifles. No bolt action. No breaking actions or falling blocks. Nothing. This is the only thing that we can possibly do to keep our children safe from both mass murder and common street violence.

    Unfortunately, right now we can't. The political will is there, but the institutions are not. Honestly, this is a good thing. If we passed a law tomorrow banning all firearms, we would have massive noncompliance. What we need to do is establish the regulatory and informational institutions first. This is how we do it:

    The very first thing we need is national registry. We need to know where the guns are, and who has them. Canada has a national firearms registry. We need to copy their model. We need a law demanding all firearms be registered to a national database. We need to know who has them and where they are. We need to make this as easy as possible for gun owners. The federal government provides the money and technical expertise, and the State police carry it out. Like a funded mandate. Most firearms already have a serial number on them, so it would really be a matter of taking the information already on the ATF form 4473 and putting it in a national database. I think about 6 months should be enough time.

    Along with this, make private sales illegal. When a firearm is transferred, make it law that the registration must be updated. Again, make it super easy to do. Perhaps over, the internet. Dealers can log in by their FFLs and update the registration. Additionally, new guns are to be registered by the manufacturer. The object here is to create a clear paper trail from factory to distributor to dealer to owner. We want to encourage as much voluntary compliance as possible.
    Now we get down to it. The registration period has passed. Now we have criminals without registered guns running around. Probably kooky types that "lost" them on a boat or something. So remember those ATF form 4473s? Those record every firearm sale, going back twenty years. And those have to be surrendered to the ATF on demand. So, we get those logbooks, and cross reference the names and addresses with the new national registry. Since most NRA types own two or (many) more guns, we can get an idea of who properly registered their guns and who didn't. For example, if we have a guy who purchased 6 guns over the course of 10 years, but only registered two of them, that raises a red flag.

    Now, maybe he sold them or they got lost or something. But it gives us a good target for investigation. A nice visit by the ATF or state police to find out if he really does still have those guns would be certainly warranted. It's certainly not perfect. People may have gotten guns from parents or family, and not registered them. Perfect is the enemy of pretty darn good, as they say. This exercise isn't so much to track down every gun ever sold; the main idea would be to profile and investigate people that may not have registered their guns. As an example, I'm not so concerned with the guy who bought that bolt action Mauser a decade ago and doesn't have anything registered to his name. It's a pretty good possibility that he sold it, gave it away, or got rid of it somehow. And even if he didn't, that guy is not who I'm concerned with. I'm concerned that other guy who bought a half dozen assault weapons, registered two hunting rifles, and belongs to the NRA/GOA. He's the guy who warrants a raid.

    So registration is the first step. Now that the vast majority are registered, we can do what we will. One good first step would be to close the registry to new registrations. This would, in effect, prevent new guns from being made or imported. This would put the murder machine corporations out of business for good, and cut the money supply to the NRA/GOA. As money dries up, the political capital needed for new controls will be greatly reduced.
    There are a few other things I would suggest. I would suggest an immediate, national ban on concealed carry. A ban on internet sales of guns and ammunition is a no brainer.Microstamping would also be a very good thing. Even if the only thing it does is drive up costs, it could still lead to crimes being solved. I'm willing to try every advantage we can get.

    A national Firearms Owner Identification Card might be good, but I'm not sure if it's necessary if we have a national database. We should also insist on comprehensive insurance and mandatory gun safes, subject to random, spot checks by local and federal law enforcement.

    We must make guns expensive and unpopular, just like cigarettes. A nationwide, antigun campaign paid for by a per gun yearly tax paid by owners, dealers, and manufacturers would work well in this regard. We should also segway into an anti-hunting campaign, like those in the UK. By making hunting expensive and unpopular, we can make the transition to a gun free society much less of a headache for us.

    I know this seems harsh, but this is the only way we can be truly safe. I don't want my kids being shot at by a deranged NRA member. I'm sure you don't either. So lets stop looking for short term solutions and start looking long term. Registration is the first step.

    Tell Pres. Obama and democrats in congress to demand mandatory, comprehensive gun registration. It's the only way we can ban guns with any effectiveness.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...-term-process#
    Last edited by gogodawgs; 12-28-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Want to stop the violence?


    Here is the answer:


    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
    A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
    Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
    A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
    Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
    James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
    Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
    Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
    Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
    Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
    Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
    Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
    Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
    Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
    Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
    Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
    Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
    (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
    Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
    Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
    Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
    Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
    A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
    Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
    Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
    Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
    Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
    Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
    Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
    New York high school.
    Perhaps rather than gun-control, we should be looking closer to instituting pharma-
    control?

  15. #15
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    That dailykos article is absolutely chilling.
    I don't think the writer has any clue as to exactly how morally (& legally) wrong most of those proposals are.

    Perhaps rather than gun-control, we should be looking closer to instituting pharma-control?
    They're already very highly regulated, closely controlled.
    Many of the people you listed were teens or almost teens. One reason certain drugs aren't approved for children is because their body chemistry is different. Seriously - Ritalin for a child is a calming drug, for an adult it's a stimulant. Same for caffein.

    Many of the people you listed were also, apparently, getting treatment for various mental health issues. The suicides are, unfortunately, common. As someone feels better, has more energy, but doesn't feel "better enough", they're likely to act on their bad feelings.
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  16. #16
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    996
    If making something illegal for anyone to own anywhere in the country made it impossible to get, then we must be imagining all these crack, heroin and methamphetamine addicts running around.

    There are guys in Afghanistan who, with muscle powered tools and a forge that can be packed up into a single duffel bag turn out an AK-47 per DAY. A for-real AK-47, not the semi-auto limited toy version we have in this country. Those same guys make ammunition by hand, using the same tools too. Most of those guys would trade their left nut for the tool set found in many American garages. Most DIY-minded Americans have the same tools those guys in Afghanistan do, but the American version are many times better quality.

    And those hand-made guns don't have serial numbers, let alone micro-stampings. If we can't keep something as easily detected as marijuana out of the country, how could we possibly keep a gun that smells like any other piece of steel to a dog out?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    That dailykos article is absolutely chilling.
    I don't think the writer has any clue as to exactly how morally (& legally) wrong most of those proposals are.


    They're already very highly regulated, closely controlled.
    Many of the people you listed were teens or almost teens. One reason certain drugs aren't approved for children is because their body chemistry is different. Seriously - Ritalin for a child is a calming drug, for an adult it's a stimulant. Same for caffein.

    Many of the people you listed were also, apparently, getting treatment for various mental health issues. The suicides are, unfortunately, common. As someone feels better, has more energy, but doesn't feel "better enough", they're likely to act on their bad feelings.
    You have the grasp of what was intended. The main issue is mental problems exacerbated by lack of supervision and medication improperly (guessing here) provided.
    The meds may be highly regulated while in the care of the pharmacist, but that goes out the window when it hits the hand of the patient or in some cases helper.
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 12-29-2012 at 12:11 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Trigger Dr;1872057]Want to stop the violence?

    Really great information. Thank you very much for posting it. It was probably alot of work to put that together. I'm spreading it. Thanks again.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jsanchez;1872232]
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Want to stop the violence?

    Really great information. Thank you very much for posting it. It was probably alot of work to put that together. I'm spreading it. Thanks again.
    I second this, it was a good post.

    I do wonder though is it the medication or is it that medication is substituted for good old fashioned discipline.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Re: A summary of the 2013 AWB Directly from Mrs. Feinstein website...

    [QUOTE=sudden valley gunner;1872265]
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post

    I second this, it was a good post.

    I do wonder though is it the medication or is it that medication is substituted for good old fashioned discipline.
    Yes.

    Sent by Droid

  21. #21
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post

    I second this, it was a good post.

    I do wonder though is it the medication or is it that medication is substituted for good old fashioned discipline.
    the medication used to be more effective, used to be if a kid was acting up in school, he went home with a note and got a dose of "DADerall" and it would generally create mid to long term stability in attitude, the current medications like Aderall just create short term stability with too many side effects..

    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 12-29-2012 at 04:40 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  22. #22
    Regular Member 07Altima's Avatar
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    Even if it passes

    I flat out REFUSE TO SUBMIT TO REGISTRATION OF MY FIREARMS IT IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT, IT INFRINGES ON THAT RIGHT, AND STATE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. I REFUSE TO REGISTER EVER, AND IF THEY WANT MY GUNS THEY WILL HAVE TO PRY THEM FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS.

  23. #23
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    Hail, and Good Tidings!

    Howdy folks,
    I am having a hard time chasing down the actual bill, i have read the sumamry and I want to read the whole darned thing! I e-mailed her office and got an auto response that said i wasn't going to get a real response because I'm out of state.

    So, does anyone on here have a link to the full bill, as she intends to deliver to congress?

    Cheers,
    OCinBlaine

  24. #24
    Regular Member Gilead_Gunslinger's Avatar
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    out of state???? you're not out of the united states are you???
    I aim with my eye... I shoot with my mind... I kill with my heart....
    - The Gunslinger's Litany (paraphrased)

    It has been brought to my attention that the stick figure decals on
    the back windows of vehicles are NOT pedestrian 'kill' scores, but are
    actually meant to represent family members. I'll be removing mine
    ASAP to avoid any further confusion.........

    First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

  25. #25
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    A summary of the 2013 AWB Directly from Mrs. Feinstein website...

    [QUOTE=sudden valley gunner;1872265]
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post

    I second this, it was a good post.

    I do wonder though is it the medication or is it that medication is substituted for good old fashioned discipline.
    While I was dating my wife she had anxiety. Her doctor prescribed her Prozac. Let me tell you that it literally made her crazy and worsened her condition. There were many times that she thought of ending her life. It took a lot of work on my part to convince her to stop taking the drug. Thankfully she no longer has any issues with anxiety.

    I personally was prescribed Zoloft for depression as a teen and can say that what it did was make me not care about a damn thing. If I had had an impulse to do something crazy there would have been nothing to stop me. I realized that not caring wasn't normal and I quit taking the drug and worked out my problems.

    Doctors are STUPID and just push drugs to treat symptoms having no clue whatsoever how it will really affect a person. They call it "practicing" medicine for a reason. They're going to screw up!
    Last edited by tombrewster421; 12-30-2012 at 03:26 PM.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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