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Thread: AR 15 Band waggon

  1. #1
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Question AR 15 Band waggon

    So I know this is not open carry or side arm talk. But I figured I would ask my fellow friends on here.
    I am thinking about jumping on the ar-15 band wagon.
    Been do some research a bit and I like what Rock river and yankee hill are doing. but dang they want $$$$$ for it
    Kind of new to anything that is not black powder or shotgun
    Wanted to see what you all say about my list below and get recommends and some Manufactures I should check out.
    Just looking for input

    My List so far
    16in Chromed lined barrel 1:9 twist
    6 position stock
    Quad rails float barrel
    Flip up sights
    Ergo rubber grip
    Radical muzzle break
    Mounts for sling
    Room for Eco tech sight later
    Shoots 5.56 and .223 ammo
    4 to 6 30round mags
    2 stage trigger

  2. #2
    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donsadlerjr View Post
    So I know this is not open carry or side arm talk. But I figured I would ask my fellow friends on here.
    I am thinking about jumping on the ar-15 band wagon.
    Been do some research a bit and I like what Rock river and yankee hill are doing. but dang they want $$$$$ for it
    Kind of new to anything that is not black powder or shotgun
    Wanted to see what you all say about my list below and get recommends and some Manufactures I should check out.
    Just looking for input

    My List so far
    16in Chromed lined barrel 1:9 twist
    6 position stock
    Quad rails float barrel
    Flip up sights
    Ergo rubber grip
    Radical muzzle break
    Mounts for sling
    Room for Eco tech sight later
    Shoots 5.56 and .223 ammo
    4 to 6 30round mags
    2 stage trigger
    I don't know a lot, well ok im in the same boat as you pretty much, but from the looking around I've been doing, since im saving up for one my self, you have a good idea of what to get. Wal mart carries, or did carry a few that were good looking especially for starting out. My son in law has 2 now, both different brands, and looking for another. Ill try to find out what the last one he got was, he is really fond of it, and he is a good source as far as im concerned, he's pretty educated about his firearms. Ill let you know when i find out.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    Sadly, you've picked the worst time in history to jump on the AR bandwagon. Panic buying and profiteering have driven the prices on ARs and associated 30 round mags to absolutely ridiculous levels.

    Continue to do your research but I would suggest that you wait for the knee-jerk ban proposals to be defeated, causing the prices and stock levels to return to sanity before you purchase.

  4. #4
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    I have a Windham Weaponry AR (old Bushmaster company). Has all of what you want in your list. You'd just have to buy the rail and grip. Walmart has them for $800-900 depending on which model you choose. I went with the SRC for 800 and put my own optic on it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member RugerP95DC's Avatar
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    I have a M&P 15 (S&W) with 5 PMags, picked it up yesterday for around 900.00. I had been working this deal before the craziness had started so the price was locked in.

    I have a Sightmark Ultra Shot II on it, very nice reticle sight for under 100.00, I wanted the EO Tech, but did not want to spend that kind of money. The Sightmark is a modular system so you can add a magnifier at a different time if you choose to do so. The sight has 4 different reticle patterns on it.

    I am new to it also, this is my first AR, so I will be posting how it does in the next few weeks.
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    I bought a Rock River this summer, it's still sitting in the box actually. Had a very good friend who is a LEO look me in the eye last spring and say "if you ever want to own an AR15 you better hurry up and get one now". I took him at his word and made it a birthday present. Now I wish I would have ordered those pmags sooner. I think I have about 90 of them on order from 6 or 7 different vendors. Have to wait and see how many I get for the $13 - $15 price tags.
    I tried to order 2 more right before Christmas. Ordered them from the guy who gets the firearms for the local PD. He said the PD actually had 6 on order and it was looking slim they'd get theirs any time soon. They are of the impression it is the manufacturers who are the big hold ups, they are not releasing new stock. Can't blame them, simple supply and demand at work. At least I have my one AR15 and I still have my Ruger Mini14 ranch, which is still my rifle of choice.

  7. #7
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Sadly, you've picked the worst time in history to jump on the AR bandwagon. Panic buying and profiteering have driven the prices on ARs and associated 30 round mags to absolutely ridiculous levels.

    Continue to do your research but I would suggest that you wait for the knee-jerk ban proposals to be defeated, causing the prices and stock levels to return to sanity before you purchase.
    Yea, I know. but if something does happen I would kick my own butt for not getting it. Because you know if they say by date boom then it is just going to go up and up till you can't touch them and I would have to go to a 3rd world country to get it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugerP95DC View Post
    I have a M&P 15 (S&W) with 5 PMags, picked it up yesterday for around 900.00. I had been working this deal before the craziness had started so the price was locked in.

    I have a Sightmark Ultra Shot II on it, very nice reticle sight for under 100.00, I wanted the EO Tech, but did not want to spend that kind of money. The Sightmark is a modular system so you can add a magnifier at a different time if you choose to do so. The sight has 4 different reticle patterns on it.

    I am new to it also, this is my first AR, so I will be posting how it does in the next few weeks.
    please let me know what you think about it. Because I have for some reason not sure why never been a M&P Fan. But I like that price you posted sure beats the hell out of 1600.00 and what not.

    You all have any pics post them lets see what you all have out there.

  9. #9
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    Buiding my own. I dont need anything high end. Complete Lower and 3 30 rd pmags ordered. I see complete upper I want for about 400ish. I dont see any reason in getting something for 1200 that I can do by myself for 6-700 dollars. I can add all the extras later

  10. #10
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    AR 15 Band waggon

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Horst View Post
    Buiding my own. I dont need anything high end. Complete Lower and 3 30 rd pmags ordered. I see complete upper I want for about 400ish. I dont see any reason in getting something for 1200 that I can do by myself for 6-700 dollars. I can add all the extras later
    My issue is let's say you buy a Yankee hill lower and a rock river barrel is it going to work that is what stressing me out is does it all work you know together.

  11. #11
    Regular Member apollosmom's Avatar
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    AR 15 Band waggon

    I stopped by the gun counter at Langley AFB yesterday after lunch...was so crowded it was hard to see anything...but after awhile it thinned out...funniest comment overheard...the counter still has a S@W ad offering $ of on S@W products...guy asked the busy clerk if the offer still stood on $100 off on S&W modern sporting rifles...geez he responded, we can't get them at any price, much less offer a discount! Must say though, their pistol prices (except Glocks) seemed to be tempting!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    So i am thinking I might just buy the Lower for now and they I can order the other stuff later the lower is what is going to be a problem to get. So buy 2 lowers and 10 mags and then just wait.

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    What I might get and then 10 Magpul 30 mags.

  13. #13
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donsadlerjr View Post
    So i am thinking I might just buy the Lower for now and they I can order the other stuff later the lower is what is going to be a problem to get. So buy 2 lowers and 10 mags and then just wait.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What I might get and then 10 Magpul 30 mags.
    Just get the stuff I need a FFL for now and then wait for the other stuff if it comes down or UP atlest I have the part that can't get taken away.

  14. #14
    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: AR 15 Band waggon

    Quote Originally Posted by donsadlerjr View Post
    My issue is let's say you buy a Yankee hill lower and a rock river barrel is it going to work that is what stressing me out is does it all work you know together.
    I have a YHM lower and a Rock River upper. They work flawlessly together. With my setup (built it for shooting coyotes) I can put a smiley face on the gong at 250 yards.

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  15. #15
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    I have a complete CMMG lower, now I'm looking for a mid length 16 inch upper flat top in 5.56/.223

  16. #16
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    AR 15 Band waggon

    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremistPullup View Post
    I have a complete CMMG lower, now I'm looking for a mid length 16 inch upper flat top in 5.56/.223
    Rtbarms.com or coldhandarms.com is who I have been useing to find my stuff went I need it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by donsadlerjr View Post
    So I know this is not open carry or side arm talk. But I figured I would ask my fellow friends on here.
    I am thinking about jumping on the ar-15 band wagon.
    Been do some research a bit and I like what Rock river and yankee hill are doing. but dang they want $$$$$ for it
    Kind of new to anything that is not black powder or shotgun
    Wanted to see what you all say about my list below and get recommends and some Manufactures I should check out.
    Just looking for input

    My List so far
    16in Chromed lined barrel 1:9 twist
    6 position stock
    Quad rails float barrel
    Flip up sights
    Ergo rubber grip
    Radical muzzle break
    Mounts for sling
    Room for Eco tech sight later
    Shoots 5.56 and .223 ammo
    4 to 6 30round mags
    2 stage trigger
    Personally I'm not a huge fan of the AR platform. I prefer the bullpup design myself for reasons I can go over if you care (I have an MSAR AUG and am waiting on the 22" barrel RFB to be available again to get one). But I'll go over what I can on your list:

    Chrome Lining - This is going to cost you more than non-lined barrels and slightly decrease accuracy (though most people aren't accurate enough to truely see it on paper), but increases reliability and makes it easier to clean.
    6 Position Stock - Most ARs that I've seen are simply 4position so don't be surprised to pay a bit more (my theater gun was only 4 in fact). There's some 6position conversion tubes out there but you would want to make sure that they would work on your specific setup.
    Quad Rails Float Barrel - While I wouldn't say that quad rails are exactly hard to find, floating a barrel is pricey compared to non-floated.
    Flip Up Sights - Personally I have the Troy ones and while they're very nice and heavy-duty, they are also very pricey (I spent just over $200 for a set of front+back sights). Personally I wish I would have bought the MagPul sights. They're roughly $60 for a set and would work just fine unless you are doing something that really needs that level of heavy duty that the Troy sights provide.
    Rubber Ergo Grip - Don't have much to say here. Try to find a place that has different types and simply try holding them to see how they fit in your hand.
    Radical Muzzle Break - What could be more "radical" than using a suppressor as your muzzle break?!?! Personally this is the route that I'm going to go when I can (since suppressors also act as a flash hider and muzzle brake in addition to being cool and help save your hearing if you're shooting without hearing protection for some reason). If you plan on getting a suppressor at some point I would figure out which one you want and if you want a quick disconnect system then get the brake that goes to the desired suppressor. If only after a brake then I would reccomend that has a solid bottom (helps prevent muzzle rise). There's a ton of different designs and given how minor the kick is on 5.56/.223 pretty much any would work. Remember that the basic point is to reduce recoil so not all have a solid bottom though.
    Mounts for Sling - Which type of sling? There's 1, 2, and 3pt slings out there. Most mounts out there are quick disconnects, but there are several different designs for the end-plate (some use the quick disconnect while others use a fixed system). Need to know more about your intended sling.
    EO Tech Sight - Need more information again. I'm assuming you're talking about their holographic sight (since the only other sight system that they make is a small reflex sight), but there's still several different setups. The older (and thus cheaper designs) have the batteries facing long-ways in the front making the sight itself pretty long, while the newer ones use a different battery setup that shortens the sight considerably. From there comes the question of if you plan on putting a magnifier behind it and/or having the flip-up sights also mounted. Though honestly so long as you have a rail covering part of your barrel and the upper you're going to have plenty of rail space for even the longer holographic+magnifier+flip-up sights. After all, this isn't a bullpup where everything is compressed.
    5.56 and .223 Ammo - Look for barrels that are "Wylde Chamber" if this is what you're after. Note that a 5.56 barrel can shoot .223 ammo just fine, but it can be dangerous to shoot 5.56 ammo from a .223 barrel (the 5.56 NATO round generates more pressure than the .223 and as such the .223 might not be up to the task of repeatedly firing 5.56). The Wylde Chamber is basically a compromise between a 5.56 and .223 barrel, so while it might not be as accurate as the other types+proper ammo, it is a compromise between the two. Though honestly there's so much 5.56 ammo out there that a 5.56 barrel would most likely be "better" the majority of the time (again, assuming that you're a good enough shooter to actually see a difference and assuming your reloading/using milsurp 5.56 given how common it is) and could still shoot the .223 just fine when needed. Oh and don't be surprised if your gun still says ".223" on it. My gun says that even though the company advertises the gun as 5.56/.223 and I even contacted them and they confirmed that it could handle 5.56 even though the barrel only said .223 on it.
    30rd Mags - Good luck finding them atm, but personally I'm a fan of the MagPul PMags with the window on them. I also saw a bunch of these downrange so they are definately combat-proven. When I bought mine I paid 10-15 each for them.
    Trigger - Can't comment as I haven't done any trigger work to my gun and since I own a bullpup the trigger-system is pretty different from an AR. Just be careful because when you start getting too light it can be dangerous outside of competition shooting (I often hear 5lb as the magic number and have heard of "race/competition" guns being lower).

    As for companies, I've heard a lot of good things about Rock River Arms in regards to price vs quality and they are the company that jumps out the most to me. Though honestly this is simply from reading a bunch of gun mags while deployed and not from any actual shooting/handling experience. The only AR platforms I've handled and shot have all been military rifles, and Colt isn't exactly low or even mid on the price range.

    When mixing/matching company pieces, generally it isn't an issue but there's always the possibility. Also if you get the upper/lower as "milspec" you should get the other one as milspec as well to help prevent possible issues. When I have heard of issues with mixing parts it's usually when using lower-end parts but it is always a possibility.

    Prices are going to vary greatly, but I would say that your barrel being free-floated and chrome-lined are probably the two biggest expenses outside of brand. So if you find a less expensive AR (sub 1k) be sure to double check that it has the options you want. Also if you settle for less of a gun with the intention of upgrading it later, price out the parts that you would need to upgrade compared to the one you already have a quote on to make sure that the desired upgrades don't actually push you higher than intended.

  18. #18
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    AR 15 Band waggon

    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Personally I'm not a huge fan of the AR platform. I prefer the bullpup design myself for reasons I can go over if you care (I have an MSAR AUG and am waiting on the 22" barrel RFB to be available again to get one). But I'll go over what I can on your list:

    Chrome Lining - This is going to cost you more than non-lined barrels and slightly decrease accuracy (though most people aren't accurate enough to truely see it on paper), but increases reliability and makes it easier to clean.
    6 Position Stock - Most ARs that I've seen are simply 4position so don't be surprised to pay a bit more (my theater gun was only 4 in fact). There's some 6position conversion tubes out there but you would want to make sure that they would work on your specific setup.
    Quad Rails Float Barrel - While I wouldn't say that quad rails are exactly hard to find, floating a barrel is pricey compared to non-floated.
    Flip Up Sights - Personally I have the Troy ones and while they're very nice and heavy-duty, they are also very pricey (I spent just over $200 for a set of front+back sights). Personally I wish I would have bought the MagPul sights. They're roughly $60 for a set and would work just fine unless you are doing something that really needs that level of heavy duty that the Troy sights provide.
    Rubber Ergo Grip - Don't have much to say here. Try to find a place that has different types and simply try holding them to see how they fit in your hand.
    Radical Muzzle Break - What could be more "radical" than using a suppressor as your muzzle break?!?! Personally this is the route that I'm going to go when I can (since suppressors also act as a flash hider and muzzle brake in addition to being cool and help save your hearing if you're shooting without hearing protection for some reason). If you plan on getting a suppressor at some point I would figure out which one you want and if you want a quick disconnect system then get the brake that goes to the desired suppressor. If only after a brake then I would reccomend that has a solid bottom (helps prevent muzzle rise). There's a ton of different designs and given how minor the kick is on 5.56/.223 pretty much any would work. Remember that the basic point is to reduce recoil so not all have a solid bottom though.
    Mounts for Sling - Which type of sling? There's 1, 2, and 3pt slings out there. Most mounts out there are quick disconnects, but there are several different designs for the end-plate (some use the quick disconnect while others use a fixed system). Need to know more about your intended sling.
    EO Tech Sight - Need more information again. I'm assuming you're talking about their holographic sight (since the only other sight system that they make is a small reflex sight), but there's still several different setups. The older (and thus cheaper designs) have the batteries facing long-ways in the front making the sight itself pretty long, while the newer ones use a different battery setup that shortens the sight considerably. From there comes the question of if you plan on putting a magnifier behind it and/or having the flip-up sights also mounted. Though honestly so long as you have a rail covering part of your barrel and the upper you're going to have plenty of rail space for even the longer holographic+magnifier+flip-up sights. After all, this isn't a bullpup where everything is compressed.
    5.56 and .223 Ammo - Look for barrels that are "Wylde Chamber" if this is what you're after. Note that a 5.56 barrel can shoot .223 ammo just fine, but it can be dangerous to shoot 5.56 ammo from a .223 barrel (the 5.56 NATO round generates more pressure than the .223 and as such the .223 might not be up to the task of repeatedly firing 5.56). The Wylde Chamber is basically a compromise between a 5.56 and .223 barrel, so while it might not be as accurate as the other types+proper ammo, it is a compromise between the two. Though honestly there's so much 5.56 ammo out there that a 5.56 barrel would most likely be "better" the majority of the time (again, assuming that you're a good enough shooter to actually see a difference and assuming your reloading/using milsurp 5.56 given how common it is) and could still shoot the .223 just fine when needed. Oh and don't be surprised if your gun still says ".223" on it. My gun says that even though the company advertises the gun as 5.56/.223 and I even contacted them and they confirmed that it could handle 5.56 even though the barrel only said .223 on it.
    30rd Mags - Good luck finding them atm, but personally I'm a fan of the MagPul PMags with the window on them. I also saw a bunch of these downrange so they are definately combat-proven. When I bought mine I paid 10-15 each for them.
    Trigger - Can't comment as I haven't done any trigger work to my gun and since I own a bullpup the trigger-system is pretty different from an AR. Just be careful because when you start getting too light it can be dangerous outside of competition shooting (I often hear 5lb as the magic number and have heard of "race/competition" guns being lower).

    As for companies, I've heard a lot of good things about Rock River Arms in regards to price vs quality and they are the company that jumps out the most to me. Though honestly this is simply from reading a bunch of gun mags while deployed and not from any actual shooting/handling experience. The only AR platforms I've handled and shot have all been military rifles, and Colt isn't exactly low or even mid on the price range.

    When mixing/matching company pieces, generally it isn't an issue but there's always the possibility. Also if you get the upper/lower as "milspec" you should get the other one as milspec as well to help prevent possible issues. When I have heard of issues with mixing parts it's usually when using lower-end parts but it is always a possibility.

    Prices are going to vary greatly, but I would say that your barrel being free-floated and chrome-lined are probably the two biggest expenses outside of brand. So if you find a less expensive AR (sub 1k) be sure to double check that it has the options you want. Also if you settle for less of a gun with the intention of upgrading it later, price out the parts that you would need to upgrade compared to the one you already have a quote on to make sure that the desired upgrades don't actually push you higher than intended.
    Thanks for the info what a great read. Thank you for sure thank you so much.

  19. #19
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever used Cold hand arms here in Oklahoma City?
    Was looking at
    http://coldhandarms.com/zencart/inde...roducts_id=224

    But can never get the guy to call me back.

  20. #20
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    Never dealt with them but this would most likely be the kit you would be interested in based off of your OP. Personally I wouldn't even look at any gun that uses the old school barrel shroud as you're just going to want to replace it with a proper rail system for sights/accessories.

  21. #21
    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Well I have a buddy that has a Quad rail that he is going to sale me for 40.00 that should work just a quick change and should be 100% what I am looking for I feel. Anyone know any other places in OKC you can order like this?

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    As long as the parts (upper & lower) are mil-spec you should be able to buy them from different manufacturers without any fitting problems. I would strongly suggest you get the upper chambered for 5.56, since that will handle the plentiful .223Rem ammo, but the .223 chamber is almost guaranteed to fail prematurely when fed a consistent diet of 5.56x45 ammo. WalMart also sells the SIG 5.56 (at least they do locally). And, although I have no personal experience with one, don't offhandedly discount Mossberg's relatively recent AR offering, which has gotten excellent reviews. My personal AR is a mismatched upper/lower combo, and works fine. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 01-01-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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  23. #23
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    You have picked the worst time ever to get into the AR game.

    I'd go for a 1:7 twist barrel to allow for heavier ammo usage. Why free float? With a 16" bbl you're not building a designated marksman rifle. Unless you use a tight sling or need to shave a 0.25 MOA off of the groups free float is a waste of money and weight.

    I'd suggest heading on over to AR15.com. They are gurus on all the specs for an M4gery.

    A basic Palmetto State Armory M4gery was running around $700 pre-crisis. Think about that before you panic buy and decide how much it is worth to you...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by armaborealis View Post
    I'd go for a 1:7 twist barrel to allow for heavier ammo usage. Why free float? With a 16" bbl you're not building a designated marksman rifle.
    That was what I was thinking. Actually free floating a 16'' barrel on an AR will provide little (if any) noticeable advantages.

    Then you want two stage trigger, this is primarily used as a competition trigger for a reason.

    If you want a precision gun then get/build a precision gun, if you want a "serviceable" (whatever serviceable is to you) then get/build one that fits that.

    Don't ever try to get a "do all gun", because then it won't do anything well.

    The M&P line is a good line of guns. Not sure why you're not a M&P fan? Because you have never used one? It will compare favorably to any other similar gun from any manufacturer. You'll get most of the gun of more expensive manufacturers with less of a price tag.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Just not a AR fan, so I won't be jumping on the bandwagon. If I was to go with a .223 it would be Ruger.
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