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Thread: A buddy of mine was threatened for OC today

  1. #1
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    A buddy of mine was threatened for OC today

    A buddy of mine usually OC's just about everywhere that he goes. He's not a show off or a trouble maker however he likes to have his firearm on him and there should be nothing wrong with this since it's legal.

    I think he made a mistake but it shouldn't have escalated the way in which it did. He arrived at work where he drives a truck, while on the job he leave's his firearm in his vehicle which is parked. When he arrived at work he exited his vehicle with his gun on his side where another employee noticed it and immediately started calling him a punk bitch and a ***** for carrying a gun. He went on to say that in LA if they saw him in his neighborhood with a gun on they would take it from him and shove it up his you know what. I've seen the guy in question before and he's your typical gangster looking type from the south with a big mouth. My friend said that he then took his jacket off and began walking towards him in a threatening way telling him he would shove it up his rear. Being very un-confrontational and honestly afraid of the guy, my buddy said that he walked to the other side of his car, got in and locked the door. The guy talked some more crap and then got into his work truck. My buddy is a smaller guy and is pretty shook up over this.

    I think he should have taken his gun off in the vehicle and secured it before he ever got out. Even so this should have NEVER happened. This gangster guy obviously plays by his own set of rules. If it had of been me when the guy took his jacket off and started coming at me in a threatening manor I would have stepped back and placed my hand on my gun but not remove it from the holster unless he proceeded to assault me. If it would have escalated to physical contact then I would have acted.

    Any thought on this are welcome.

  2. #2
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    A buddy of mine was threatened for OC today

    He should file a police report, he was threatened. Also I would give a copy of the report to his employer.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
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    There is nothing wrong with his actions, regardless of the Bad Guys opinion of your friends actions(cowardly, wuss, etc.). Walking away when possible is always OK as long as he stays aware of his surroundings. the guy was obviously not going to attack or it would have escalated to him being shot and this would be a totally different discussion.
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    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    He should file a police report, he was threatened. Also I would give a copy of the report to his employer.
    That is good advice however I think he's afraid of retaliation.

  5. #5
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic84 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with his actions, regardless of the Bad Guys opinion of your friends actions(cowardly, wuss, etc.). Walking away when possible is always OK as long as he stays aware of his surroundings. the guy was obviously not going to attack or it would have escalated to him being shot and this would be a totally different discussion.
    I'm glad to hear such a positive response. I agree that walking away is OK but like you said, you have to be very aware of what's going on. You can't let the other guy get a hold of your weapon. I'm trying to get him to become a member on this site.

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    Glad everything turned out OK.

    If the thug is likely to be in the same lot with any frequency, I'm thinking your friend is gonna have a bit of a security problem leaving his gun is car from now on. Maybe he now needs a strong lockbox that can be chained to something in the trunk?

    If company policy and politics didn't add up to trouble, he should probably report the thug to his employer. Anybody who behaves that way may already have a history; unless the company forbids guns, I'll bet they would like to know about this guy. This is the sort of guy who may be causing trouble and upset with other co-workers.

    The retreat into the car seems smart, assuming your friend knew the guy a little bit or read signs that made it seem likely the thug would relent.

    On the other hand, if a total stranger while moving toward me told me in strong hostility that he was going to disarm me and then assault me with my own gun, I would draw to low-ready at a minimum. Mas Ayoob, in his video Judicious Use of Deadly Force discusses verbal disarm threats. He makes a very good point with a bit of humor. He says you can assume the bad guy who is saying he is going to take your gun is not a Smith & Wesson armorer offering to give your gun a free inspection. And, you can (have to?) assume that he may actually be trained or practiced in disarming techniques and really know what he is talking about.

    It does just now occur to me that any defensive display of weapon should probably be accompanied by loud shouts--loud enough for even distant witnesses to hear--"Leave me alone! I do not want any trouble!" Retreating if feasible, while shouting should give clear indications to witnesses that you are the victim. I would just keep shouting it to help impress it on witnesses minds. Hopefully, enough people will hear and see your shouts and retreat and pass that info along to the cops.

    And, then, of course, be the first person to call the police. I do not have a high opinion of most police; but, at this writing, I'm inclined to think the maxim that whoever calls the cops first is the victim weighs more in the OCer's favor than not calling and having a thug paint the OCer as an illegal brandisher.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-29-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Your friend did just about everything "by the book". What was missing was the call to the police and reporting the incident to HR. I'll bet there is a company policy on workplace violence and I'll up the bet that the policy requires reporting incidents of workplace violence. If your friend fears retaliation for making a report to either the police or HR then he needs to make that statement a part of the official written report to both the police and HR.

    I am not of the opinion that your friend would have been entitled to any "defensive display of a firearm", given your description of the event. Taking off of an outer garment is certainly a threat indicator, as is advancing towards your friend, and we all seem to agree that the verbal threats must be taken at face value. However, not knowing Nevada law, My opinion is that until/unless the persopn making the threat "significantly" closes the distance* there is no legal excuse/justification for deadly force. Since your friend was able to withdraw to his vehicle I again see defensive display as inappropriate and probably (again, guessing at Nevada law) not lawful.

    The back of my head is trying to tell me that Mr. LA saw the presence of the handgun as some sort of challenge, given your description of your friend as smaller and less assertive/abrasive. The back of my head is generally less wrong than anybody else in guessing at stuff like that.

    Your description seems to suggest (or I am reading into it) that your friend does not want to be seen as a tattel-tale/snitch, and that he might even consider making a report as some sort of admission of a weakness in providing for his self defense. If that is the case, please help him understand how very wrong that is. This is not "under the bleachers after school" stuff that teenagers get into. He had a serious threat of bodily harm - probably serious bodily harm if Mr. LA actually did what he threatened to do - and needs to do everything to make sure Mr. LA is deprived of the opportunity, as well as of the notion, of carrying that out.

    stay safe.

    * - Tueller's "21-foot Rule" only states the distabce at which an attacker can be upon you before the average person can draw, aim (even gross aim over the slide/barrel) and shoot. The distance when drawing is in the realm of excusable/justified is farther out. Unfortunately, it is dependant on so many variables that there is no set distance that can be used. 10 yards is only 9 feet further out than the Teuller distance, which would be possibly .75 - 1.0 seconds additional time before contact. 25 yards "feels" about right to me and 50 is too far to convince a jury you were waiting until the last possible moment. 25 yards is also the maximum distance most people train at.
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    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    However, not knowing Nevada law, My opinion is that until/unless the persopn making the threat "significantly" closes the distance* there is no legal excuse/justification for deadly force. Since your friend was able to withdraw to his vehicle I again see defensive display as inappropriate and probably (again, guessing at Nevada law) not lawful.
    Nevada law requires that you reasonably believe your life is in danger.

    NRS 200.200 Killing in self-defense. If a person kills another in self-defense, it must appear that:
    1. The danger was so urgent and pressing that, in order to save the person's own life, or to prevent the person from receiving great bodily harm, the killing of the other was absolutely necessary; and
    2. The person killed was the assailant, or that the slayer had really, and in good faith, endeavored to decline any further struggle before the mortal blow was given.
    [1911 C&P 137; RL 6402; NCL 10084]
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    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    It's a very small company with less than 10 employees and the boss is out of town at the moment according to my friend. I've tried to encourage him to make a police report however he's hoping the whole thing will just blow over. He doesn't want any trouble.

    I spoke to him a few minutes ago and another employee has now told him that it's illegal to open carry a firearm in Nevada unless you have a permit. He also claimed that he knows a few police officers who will come down to school my friend about the law. I told him to just ignore it and stay to himself.

    Why are so many people ignorant of open carry? Everyone thinks you need a permit.

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    Why are so many people ignorant of open carry? Everyone thinks you need a permit.
    They probably talked to the police that don't like open carry!! or they drank the Koolaid!
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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    A buddy of mine usually OC's just about everywhere that he goes. He's not a show off or a trouble maker however he likes to have his firearm on him and there should be nothing wrong with this since it's legal.

    I think he made a mistake but it shouldn't have escalated the way in which it did. He arrived at work where he drives a truck, while on the job he leave's his firearm in his vehicle which is parked. When he arrived at work he exited his vehicle with his gun on his side where another employee noticed it and immediately started calling him a punk bitch and a ***** for carrying a gun. He went on to say that in LA if they saw him in his neighborhood with a gun on they would take it from him and shove it up his you know what. I've seen the guy in question before and he's your typical gangster looking type from the south with a big mouth. My friend said that he then took his jacket off and began walking towards him in a threatening way telling him he would shove it up his rear. Being very un-confrontational and honestly afraid of the guy, my buddy said that he walked to the other side of his car, got in and locked the door. The guy talked some more crap and then got into his work truck. My buddy is a smaller guy and is pretty shook up over this.

    I think he should have taken his gun off in the vehicle and secured it before he ever got out. Even so this should have NEVER happened. This gangster guy obviously plays by his own set of rules. If it had of been me when the guy took his jacket off and started coming at me in a threatening manor I would have stepped back and placed my hand on my gun but not remove it from the holster unless he proceeded to assault me. If it would have escalated to physical contact then I would have acted.

    Any thought on this are welcome.
    Thought: Continuum of force. Do not use a firearm against someone who is threatening to make mere, unarmed physical contact against you. Have other resources available to you to deal with the loud-mouth simple assault/battery types (i.e. pepper spray or stun gun), or obtain enough empty hand-to-hand combat training to dispatch a guy like that quickly and violently.

    Pulling a gun and shooting someone for a misdemeanor level assault/battery 1. is going to land you in a whole lot of trouble, and a stay at the gray bar hotel for several years, and 2. is going to make the OC community look very, very bad.

    Give yourself options other than the firearm, but definitely have the firearm available when deadly force situations justify its use.

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    Regular Member renoglock22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2276 View Post
    Thought: Continuum of force. Do not use a firearm against someone who is threatening to make mere, unarmed physical contact against you. Have other resources available to you to deal with the loud-mouth simple assault/battery types (i.e. pepper spray or stun gun), or obtain enough empty hand-to-hand combat training to dispatch a guy like that quickly and violently.

    Pulling a gun and shooting someone for a misdemeanor level assault/battery 1. is going to land you in a whole lot of trouble, and a stay at the gray bar hotel for several years, and 2. is going to make the OC community look very, very bad.

    Give yourself options other than the firearm, but definitely have the firearm available when deadly force situations justify its use.
    While I agree with what the guy did (locking himself in the car) I do not think that other options like a stun gun or pepper spray would have done much good. In this case the victim is a small guy and the assailant is a big gang banger type, I don't know about you but I have dealt with these type of people. If this guy was coming after me like that and I had a choice between pepper spray and a firearm, guess what, firearm it is. Because the other guy was big and acted like a thug and is walking towards him in a threatening manner would be a justifiable reason to shoot him. I can't fight and am pretty small so if a big guy is threatening me and coming too close I will draw and if he still comes at me, GOODBYE.

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    Thanks for sharing this. I think he did the correct thing getting in the vehicle. Just one of those rare issues that will happen with the occasional run in with a dirt bag. It happing at work puts a completely different spin on how to deal with the issue. If your friend is in good standing with the boss and if the boss appears to be pro-gun maybe a one on one with the boss might be a good start. I agree with calling and filling a report with METRO however can understand not wanting repercussions that could jeopardize ones income.

    I am of the opinion any confrontation involving a firearm that ends up with one going home to their family unharmed without having to pull the trigger is a win.

    If firearms are not an issue with the owner of the parking lot then there is no reason why he should feel he should disarm before getting out. Standing depending on the rig usually is safer, quicker and eraser to do.

    Print out the try fold, which has the NV gun LAWs and politely show it to your co-worker. Make sure you put the opencarry.org nv. web page on it and encourage him to read the postings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    A buddy of mine usually OC's just about everywhere that he goes. He's not a show off or a trouble maker however he likes to have his firearm on him and there should be nothing wrong with this since it's legal.

    I think he made a mistake but it shouldn't have escalated the way in which it did. He arrived at work where he drives a truck, while on the job he leave's his firearm in his vehicle which is parked. When he arrived at work he exited his vehicle with his gun on his side where another employee noticed it and immediately started calling him a punk bitch and a ***** for carrying a gun. He went on to say that in LA if they saw him in his neighborhood with a gun on they would take it from him and shove it up his you know what. I've seen the guy in question before and he's your typical gangster looking type from the south with a big mouth. My friend said that he then took his jacket off and began walking towards him in a threatening way telling him he would shove it up his rear. Being very un-confrontational and honestly afraid of the guy, my buddy said that he walked to the other side of his car, got in and locked the door. The guy talked some more crap and then got into his work truck. My buddy is a smaller guy and is pretty shook up over this.

    I think he should have taken his gun off in the vehicle and secured it before he ever got out. Even so this should have NEVER happened. This gangster guy obviously plays by his own set of rules. If it had of been me when the guy took his jacket off and started coming at me in a threatening manor I would have stepped back and placed my hand on my gun but not remove it from the holster unless he proceeded to assault me. If it would have escalated to physical contact then I would have acted.

    Any thought on this are welcome.
    If the other 'gentleman' actually made a threat of violence to your friend, it WAS quite possibly, 'assault.'

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...l#NRS200Sec471

    NRS 200.471 Assault: Definitions; penalties. [Effective through December 31, 2011.]

    1. As used in this section:

    (a) “Assault” means:

    (1) Unlawfully attempting to use physical force against another person; or

    (2) Intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm.
    NRS 200.471 Assault: Definitions; penalties. [Effective January 1, 2012.]

    1. As used in this section:

    (a) “Assault” means:

    (1) Unlawfully attempting to use physical force against another person; or

    (2) Intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm.
    Alternatively, the 'gentleman' may have been guilty of 'provoking an assault.'
    NRS 200.490 Provoking assault: Penalty. Every person who shall, by word, sign or gesture, willfully provoke, or attempt to provoke, another person to commit an assault shall be punished by a fine of not more than $500.

    [Part 1911 C&P 150; RL 6415; NCL 10097]—(NRS A 1967, 473)
    Last edited by wrightme; 12-30-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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    Get real, legal force with guns use is very time and situation limited

    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    If the other 'gentleman' actually made a threat of violence to your friend, it WAS quite possibly, 'assault.'

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...l#NRS200Sec471




    Alternatively, the 'gentleman' may have been guilty of 'provoking an assault.'
    Just remember ,the use of a guns should only be used to stop/defend a possibly deadly encounter before police help is available. You are not the police, you do not have the power of the state to defend you and will probably be jailed, and sued for everything you own if you use a gun, no matter right or wrong. A pending fist fight with no other weapons is not going to rise to a level of defense to draw a gun and use it. Guns for citizens defense are not the perfect solution for all self defense needs. As others have suggested, if all that is involved is a simple assault with hands by the other party, the use of a gun to defend yourself in public is going to get you put in jail, in just about every state. The first line of defense should be retreat, which the guy did wisely. Now if you are being robbed of your wallet/car by a strong-armed robber, deadly force may be justified during the robbery, but not after (to chase the robber down to recover your property). If you draw a gun to defend a misdemeanor fist fight in public, you have been poorly trained and educated on the laws. If you choose to use a gun to defend yourself, the only statement you should ever make to the police, is that you were in immediate fear of your life. Do not make any other statements and ask for a lawyer, because you are probably going to jail no matter what, at least for awhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oc4ever View Post
    Just remember ,the use of a guns should only be used to stop/defend a possibly deadly encounter before police help is available. You are not the police, you do not have the power of the state to defend you and will probably be jailed, and sued for everything you own if you use a gun, no matter right or wrong. A pending fist fight with no other weapons is not going to rise to a level of defense to draw a gun and use it. Guns for citizens defense are not the perfect solution for all self defense needs. As others have suggested, if all that is involved is a simple assault with hands by the other party, the use of a gun to defend yourself in public is going to get you put in jail, in just about every state. The first line of defense should be retreat, which the guy did wisely. Now if you are being robbed of your wallet/car by a strong-armed robber, deadly force may be justified during the robbery, but not after (to chase the robber down to recover your property). If you draw a gun to defend a misdemeanor fist fight in public, you have been poorly trained and educated on the laws. If you choose to use a gun to defend yourself, the only statement you should ever make to the police, is that you were in immediate fear of your life. Do not make any other statements and ask for a lawyer, because you are probably going to jail no matter what, at least for awhile.
    What?


    I have NO idea how you got THAT out of my comment.

    My comment was ONLY addressing the actions of the aggressive individual, and NOT the actions of the person posting in this forum. Your post, and the title you placed on it, have nothing whatsoever to do with any view of it that I have presented. At all.


    Specifically, the verbal threats, AND the actions towards the OC'er, very likely fit the NRS legal definition of assault. NOTHING in that justifies deadly force, nor did I ever make such claim.

    And, specifically, the verbal comments made towards the OC'er, may also fit the NRS legal definition of 'provoking an assault;' which does NOT justify the use of force, nor did I ever make any such claim. In fact, I made NO CLAIMS WHATSOEVER as to what actions the OC'er should have made, nor what may have been legal to make. You are simply off-base to address your comments at me.
    Last edited by wrightme; 01-01-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    If someone makes such threats and then approaches me; my gun is in my hand and I'm watching my 6 more than the obvious threat. A loudmouth is a great distraction from the guy sneaking up behind you with the baseball bat. Gun in hand and he still keeps coming, point. Pointed and he's still threatening and approaching; he's dead.

    I'm definitely not going to hide in a glass jar and cry about it...

    Shaken up about it, huh? I'm wondering if this guy has the resolve and fortitude to handle any situation in which a firearm might be needed... Why is he carrying it? I can understand being shaken up after you have to blow someone away. That sucks. But this guy is lucky Mr. Blowhard really was just a Blowhard. A glass bubble is a lousy device for hiding and protecting yourself.

    My choice isn't for everyone, I know that. No one got dead, that's great. Sort of... This thug is just going to keep harassing people until one of them does the right thing...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    If someone makes such threats and then approaches me; my gun is in my hand and I'm watching my 6 more than the obvious threat. A loudmouth is a great distraction from the guy sneaking up behind you with the baseball bat. Gun in hand and he still keeps coming, point. Pointed and he's still threatening and approaching; he's dead.

    I'm definitely not going to hide in a glass jar and cry about it...

    Shaken up about it, huh? I'm wondering if this guy has the resolve and fortitude to handle any situation in which a firearm might be needed... Why is he carrying it? I can understand being shaken up after you have to blow someone away. That sucks. But this guy is lucky Mr. Blowhard really was just a Blowhard. A glass bubble is a lousy device for hiding and protecting yourself.

    My choice isn't for everyone, I know that. No one got dead, that's great. Sort of... This thug is just going to keep harassing people until one of them does the right thing...
    Even those with less fortitude deserve the right to self-defense. Only God can predict whether the resolve might kick in at the actual instant of crisis.

    Good point about checking behind you and mouthy distractions.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    He should file a police report, he was threatened. Also I would give a copy of the report to his employer.
    This is Truth!

    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    That is good advice however I think he's afraid of retaliation.
    Another reason to file

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    If the thug is likely to be in the same lot with any frequency, I'm thinking your friend is gonna have a bit of a security problem leaving his gun is car from now on...........If company policy and politics didn't add up to trouble, he should probably report the thug to his employer.

    Let the Boss know he has a wild card on the ground.

    And, then, of course, be the first person to call the police. I do not have a high opinion of most police; but, at this writing, I'm inclined to think the maxim that whoever calls the cops first is the victim weighs more in the OCer's favor than not calling and having a thug paint the OCer as an illegal brandisher.
    Sorry to say, this is much Truth!
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oc4ever View Post
    ...You are not the police, you do not have the power of the state to defend you and will probably be jailed, and sued for everything you own if you use a gun, no matter right or wrong...
    Where are you from?

    You are in the NV forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Where are you from?

    You are in the NV forum.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. There are a wide range of choices that could have been made. The OP's friend chose to hide in a locked vehicle until the threat went away. He may not be so lucky next time he's approached.

    He has no duty to retreat per

    NRS 200.120 “Justifiable homicide” defined; no duty to retreat under certain circumstances.

    1. Justifiable homicide is the killing of a human being in necessary self-defense, or in defense of habitation, property or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against any person or persons who manifestly intend and endeavor, in a violent, riotous, tumultuous or surreptitious manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein.

    2. A person is not required to retreat before using deadly force as provided in subsection 1 if the person:

    (a) Is not the original aggressor;

    (b) Has a right to be present at the location where deadly force is used; and

    (c) Is not actively engaged in conduct in furtherance of criminal activity at the time deadly force is used.

    [1911 C&P 129; RL 6394; NCL 10076]—(NRS A 1983, 518; 2011, 265
    )




    Also preventing great bodily harm is an excuse for killing in self defense.



    NRS 200.200 Killing in self-defense. If a person kills another in self-defense, it must appear that:

    1. The danger was so urgent and pressing that, in order to save the person’s own life, or to prevent the person from receiving great bodily harm, the killing of the other was absolutely necessary; and

    2. The person killed was the assailant, or that the slayer had really, and in good faith, endeavored to decline any further struggle before the mortal blow was given.

    [1911 C&P 137; RL 6402; NCL 10084
    ]


    Granted, he would be charged, and would have to prove this, contrary to the "innocent until proven guilty". But better that than crippled, or dead.

    And... Of course you shouldn't pull your firearm unless you intend to use it. But, you don't always have to shoot if you pull your firearm out of it's holster. If the situation de-escalates and the loud mouth, making threats, stops, and walks away, re-holster. No harm, no foul, and before anybody says it, it's not brandishing if you pull your weapon on a valid threat.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 01-01-2013 at 03:48 PM.
    Hoka hey

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    SNIP ... it's not brandishing if you pull your weapon on a valid threat.
    Especially when the threaten-er is telling you he's going to arm himself with your gun, then use it to assault you.

    Not making a statement of established law here; just an evaluation of the circumstances and reasonable inferences that can be drawn from them.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    shooting unarmed assailants

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Especially when the threaten-er is telling you he's going to arm himself with your gun, then use it to assault you.

    Not making a statement of established law here; just an evaluation of the circumstances and reasonable inferences that can be drawn from them.
    I am not saying that this person would have been found guiity of anything should he used his gun, but why even think of gun use when retreat was a viable option(and used). Some of you guys have been watching to many Hollywood movies. The Prosecuters are going to eat you for lunch on the witness stand if you make any statements at all to the police that the guy was unarmed and just told you that he was going to kick your ass or take the gun away. That is a crappy misdemeanor at worst, nothing rising to deadly force defense. From the Police's point of view, you would have killed a unarmed co-worker. HE WAS NOT BEING ATTACKED BY MULTIPLE ASSAILANTS IN THIS CASE, so that someone could have snuck up on him were not the facts here. What I am saying is the LEO's are more than likely going to arrest you . They do not view the world through rose colored glasses or follow opencarry.org. Remember you had a gun and the other guy just had a big mouth. If you want to take your chances with a brandishing charge, or if you kill the guy, a possible manslaugter / murder charge , go ahead and do what you need to do. We have a very well known case in Florida going right now where a armed man shot a unarmed man(crook) in a state that has a good no-retreat statue. That man, George , even if acquitted with be financially ruined by the legal fees and lawsuit which will follow. Guns for self defense have limited but important time sensitive uses. Defending yourself from a big mouth or bully is not one of the correct uses IMHO. If you personally know a DA or criminal defense lawyer, ask him about the circumstances described, and see what he says.

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    I'm just glad the big mouth left and the situation ended well for my friend.

    If it were me in this same situation I think instead of retreating into the car I would have taken a few steps back and had my hand on my firearm. If at which time there was any way to get out of the situation such as continuing to create a safe distance then I would have done this. I don't fault my friend for his actions as they worked for him and it's a tough spot to be in. We can all talk about it until it actually happens to one of us.

    It just really sucks that jerks with his mindset are out there.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oc4ever View Post
    I am not saying that this person would have been found guiity of anything should he used his gun, but why even think of gun use when retreat was a viable option(and used). Some of you guys have been watching to many Hollywood movies. The Prosecuters are going to eat you for lunch on the witness stand if you make any statements at all to the police that the guy was unarmed and just told you that he was going to kick your ass or take the gun away. That is a crappy misdemeanor at worst, nothing rising to deadly force defense. From the Police's point of view, you would have killed a unarmed co-worker. HE WAS NOT BEING ATTACKED BY MULTIPLE ASSAILANTS IN THIS CASE, so that someone could have snuck up on him were not the facts here. What I am saying is the LEO's are more than likely going to arrest you . They do not view the world through rose colored glasses or follow opencarry.org. Remember you had a gun and the other guy just had a big mouth. If you want to take your chances with a brandishing charge, or if you kill the guy, a possible manslaugter / murder charge , go ahead and do what you need to do. We have a very well known case in Florida going right now where a armed man shot a unarmed man(crook) in a state that has a good no-retreat statue. That man, George , even if acquitted with be financially ruined by the legal fees and lawsuit which will follow. Guns for self defense have limited but important time sensitive uses. Defending yourself from a big mouth or bully is not one of the correct uses IMHO. If you personally know a DA or criminal defense lawyer, ask him about the circumstances described, and see what he says.
    NO, you are simply talking out your ass.

    You should actually read the Nevada statutes that have been posted.

    The point of this thread is nothing like the Zimmerman case.

    And, the point of even thinking of using a gun, is to mentally prepare for the possibility. It makes sense to mentally prepare, given the time sensitive nature of response; as you indicate. If you are so against using firearms for defense, why are you here?



    Oh, and where is the statute defining the 'brandishing' charge you claim he would be charged with?
    Last edited by wrightme; 01-01-2013 at 05:59 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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