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Gun-control debate could use more facts, less emotion

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Ezerharden

Ezerharden

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BoiledFrogs said:
Jesus Christ was a criminal too. Along with Rose Parks, George Washington, Patton, the list is endless.
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At the time, yes. However you lack their moral fiber and conviction of actions, so please do not insinuate that you are like them... to do so tarnishes their memory and sacrifices.
 
FreeInAZ

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2 cents

Guys/Gals:

The point of this thread was to draw attention to the story posted in OP & the comments. Now I am not telling anyone what to do but the person you all seem to have issues with is getting what they want in my humble opinion. If someone stands on corner "A" & yells "Look at me! Look at me!" and no one looks guess what, they move onto a corner where someone does. The point is-> don't be that place where that person gets what they want....:rolleyes:

http://www.mlive.com/opinion/kalama..._gun-control_debate.html#incart_river_default
Now on topic: please post in the comments section if you can as the libtards have got more than their fair share of cheap shots in there. :uhoh:
 
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Shadow Bear

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mikestilly said:
Shadow bear why continue a nonstop OT conversation. Against the rules of the forum. I shouldn't encourage you by replying to the ill conceived statement but ALOT OF INNOCIENT PEOPLE PLEASE OUT DURING THE COURSE OF A TRIAL! Just like many people don't understand how to protect their rights under the law and capitulate to overzellos procecutors. As an example a murderer like OJ Simpson could get off primarily due to his large capital to obtain the most unbelievable dream team of lawyers. People who don't have the resources or the knowledge to defend themselves properly the possibility to being forced to take the best deal they could get. I in know way support criminals but I can tell you this I've seen many people charged with firearm offenses simply from open carrying a firearm legally. I've seen unreal harassment. I have a YouTube site filled with videos of OCrs who were harassed and sometimes procecuted wrongly. Http://www.youtube.com/opencarrymi It would probably be better not to jump to conclusions or accuse people of things or make assumptions of things you don't understand.

I remember an OCr in particular that was being charged with violating his CPL which he wasnt even close to doing. There was even video proof. The procecutor was very over zealous to violate him. Around 20+ OCrs including me showed up to support him in court and his attorney told us that the #1 reason the procecutor dropped his charges was because he didn't want protests to start and attention brought to the city. People are charged with things all the time and sometimes they plea to lesser charges but it in no way means they actually committed any crimes.
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I stand my my assertion- innocent people don't plead out; guilty, stupid or lazy people do.
 
FreeInAZ

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I'll try this again...

FreeInAZ said:
Guys/Gals:

The point of this thread was to draw attention to the story posted in OP & the comments. Now I am not telling anyone what to do but the person you all seem to have issues with is getting what they want in my humble opinion. If someone stands on corner "A" & yells "Look at me! Look at me!" and no one looks guess what, they move onto a corner where someone does. The point is-> don't be that place where that person gets what they want....:rolleyes:

http://www.mlive.com/opinion/kalama..._gun-control_debate.html#incart_river_default
Now on topic: please post in the comments section if you can as the libtards have got more than their fair share of cheap shots in there. :uhoh:
Click to expand...
 
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griffin

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Shadow Bear said:
I stand my my assertion- innocent people don't plead out
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Yes, they do. There are numerous examples of this happening. Here is one:

After 5 years in prison, former prep football star exonerated for rape, kidnapping

It took 10 years, but a star high school athlete was finally rightfully acquitted of rape and kidnapping charges related to an incident he took no part in, all after already serving five years in jail after he was advised to plea bargain his sentence rather than risk spending 41 years or more locked up.

27-year-old Brian Banks was officially acquitted of the violent charges against him after his accuser recanted her story.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highs...-prep-football-star-exonerated-210345660.html

Eighteen months sounded way better than 41 years to life,” Banks said.

Banks pleaded no contest to rape and was sentenced to six years in state prison.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012...star-local-football-player-convicted-of-rape/

This is not an isolated incident. It happens more than you (obviously) think. You trust law enforcement and the judicial system? :banghead:
 
Big Gay Al

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Ezerharden said:
+1

Also, most people don't announce that they are proud of being convicted either :confused:
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You've obviously never been to a certain bar that burned down in Leslie a few years ago. :) Some of my family and I went there (before it burned down). And there was this one "patron" who was extolling his virtues to my sister. Among his many "virtues," he'd spent time in the Jackson prison for dealing. I guess this was his idea of macho. Fortunately my sister has more intelligence, not to mention better taste in men, than to fall for that stupid crap.
 
Big Gay Al

Big Gay Al

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BoiledFrogs said:
If you were in the situation, it might be different for you. Let's say, as was the case here, you were threatened with a felony, or you could walk on a misdemeanor, what would your thoughts be? Maybe different than you now think.

"I can walk on a misdemeanor, I can still transport, I can OC, I keep all of my guns. All it really changes is the ability to carry in the car." "If I gamble this, I could get a felony, no guns, no bullets, ever." "What if I lose, I have seen and hear of people convicted when they shouldn't be." "It happens, i mean,even guilty people are set free."
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If I was charged with a crime I didn't commit, I'd fight all the way.
 
Michigander

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TheQ said:
Only an Admin (John or Mike) can ban him...
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Between Neil and Pat, I would say the best option would be using the resources of Internet Brands, owner of vbulletin, to threaten them with legal action for continuing to troll the forum. My understanding is that they can and will do it if asked.

And yes, the topic at hand is what we should be focused on instead.
 
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Ezerharden

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BoiledFrogs said:
Funny thing though, it wasn't Neil doing the trolling. People were trolling him, and started a "ban stainless" campaign through PMs. They simply started spamming the moderators, and made empty threats to leave if stainless remained, until the admin banned him out of frustration, in order to keep the peace. Stainless1911 should be re activated, and those who participated in strongarming the admin and mods, should be banned. They were the ones doing the trolling. They were the ones causing the disturbance.
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It is a bad sign when you start talking about yourself in the third person.
 
Big Gay Al

Big Gay Al

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How about we try to get back on topic, and leave the other stuff to PM?

We've done more than enough off topic convo in this thread, including me.
 
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B

budlight

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BoiledFrogs said:
If you were in the situation, it might be different for you. Let's say, as was the case here, you were threatened with a felony, or you could walk on a misdemeanor, what would your thoughts be? Maybe different than you now think.

"I can walk on a misdemeanor, I can still transport, I can OC, I keep all of my guns. All it really changes is the ability to carry in the car." "If I gamble this, I could get a felony, no guns, no bullets, ever." "What if I lose, I have seen and hear of people convicted when they shouldn't be." "It happens, i mean,even guilty people are set free."
Click to expand...

The city prosecutor can make all the threats or comments he/she wants. However, they cannot up the charge to a felony. They would have to forward the case to the county prosecutor and then end up dismissing the local charge. If the county prosecutor decided to take the case and issue a warrant, then and only then would you be charged with a felony. Once again, having a court appointed attorney or one that is not experienced in criminal law ends up costing you. By the way.....you just gave yourself away again STAINLESS1911.
 
Ezerharden

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Back on topic.

Problem with using facts is the anti's are immune to them. Facts alone won't help, we need to find a way to change opinions and minds on the other side, or at least those sitting on the fence.
 
Raggs

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And there are gun owners who believe added "reasonable regulations" are ok. Right or wrong we need to work on this front as well.

Ezerharden said:
Back on topic.

Problem with using facts is the anti's are immune to them. Facts alone won't help, we need to find a way to change opinions and minds on the other side, or at least those sitting on the fence.
Click to expand...
 
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