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Thread: Is Oak Harbor going to follow Seattle into lawsuit club?

  1. #1
    Regular Member wolf-father's Avatar
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    Is Oak Harbor going to follow Seattle into lawsuit club?

    Is there anything to protect us from delusional council members trashing our money?

    Oak Harbor City Council took a stand in favor of gun control Tuesday, risking a lawsuit from a gun-rights group.

    The issue came to light when the Second Amendment Foundation sent a letter to the city attorney in October, pointing out that several sections of city code violate state law by prohibiting the carrying and display of firearms in city parks and the marina.

    http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/news/184821971.html

  2. #2
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Some Whidbey residents just need to harass these specific council members via phone and email constantly reminding them that Pacific will wind up ceasing to exist because their Mayor did stupid crap and kept getting the city sued so they lost their insurance. If Oak Harbor doesn't want to be a city anymore then by all means, pass illegal ordinances and blow all the cash on lawsuits.

    Imagine if the police draw down on an OCer and might even wound or kill them in the misguided enforcement of this bad law. The cop even said in the article that that was their plan, to draw on them!

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    make a picnick - then you can have a class action suit.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Surprising that this is coming out of Oak Harbor, North Whidbey is usually a pretty "red" area what with the NAS & all. I find it more than just a little hypocritical that the city expects their "laws" on firearm possession in parks to be followed while those laws them selves are in violation of state law!

    Email addresses for the city council:

    ralmberg@oakharbor.org RICK ALMBERG

    blandjcampbell@aol.com
    jcampbell@oakharbor.org JAMES (JIM) M. CAMPBELL

    bmunns@oakharbor.org BETH MUNNS

    thizon@oakharbor.org TARA HIZON

    rseverns@oakharbor.org BOB SEVERNS

    jservatius@oakharbor.org JOEL SERVATIUS
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Actually, if their city attorney officially advised them to do something to avoid major legal liability and they refused, I'm wondering if that will be grounds for their insurance company to drop them right away?

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    Whidbey Island seems like a nice place to visit. Can someone please tell me when the next group of OCers will be having a picnic there? Also, does anyone know exactly how to get there from the mainland?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44Brent View Post
    Whidbey Island seems like a nice place to visit. Can someone please tell me when the next group of OCers will be having a picnic there? Also, does anyone know exactly how to get there from the mainland?
    Well if you live in Olympia like your profile says there is three ways to get there

    1) Take US 101 to Shelton, then Head NB on SR-3 up the kitsap peninsula, about 50 miles north of shelton near Kingston, WA you'll turn on SR-104 and take the Hood Canal Bridge, follow all signage to Port Townsend and take the ferry to Keystone, you're now on Whidby Island, Oak Harbor is 10 miles north of the ferry dock on SR-20

    2) Take I-5 NB driving past Seattle, north of Seattle at the junction with SR-525 head to Mukleteo, take the ferry there and continue on 525 once on Whidby Island, 525 will become SR-20 on Whidby Island so just follow the road north

    3) The long haul, Take I-5 NB all the way past Mount Vernon to Burlington, WA, then head WB on SR-20 to Anacortes, SR-20 will branch south at Anacortes, take the Southbound branch to Oak Harbor, which lays on SR-20.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  8. #8
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well if you live in Olympia like your profile says there is three ways to get there

    1) Take US 101 to Shelton, then Head NB on SR-3 up the kitsap peninsula, about 50 miles north of shelton near Kingston, WA you'll turn on SR-104 and take the Hood Canal Bridge, follow all signage to Port Townsend and take the ferry to Keystone, you're now on Whidby Island, Oak Harbor is 10 miles north of the ferry dock on SR-20

    2) Take I-5 NB driving past Seattle, north of Seattle at the junction with SR-525 head to Mukleteo, take the ferry there and continue on 525 once on Whidby Island, 525 will become SR-20 on Whidby Island so just follow the road north

    3) The long haul, Take I-5 NB all the way past Mount Vernon to Burlington, WA, then head WB on SR-20 to Anacortes, SR-20 will branch south at Anacortes, take the Southbound branch to Oak Harbor, which lays on SR-20.

    Don't bother with the Pt. Townsend/Keystone ferry. It's the most trouble prone with tides & wind and requires reservations anymore. The Mukilteo/Clinton ferry runs every half hour pretty reliably. There's only a couple of us (that I know of) here on the island since LTCDR moved, and I haven't seen the other fellow on here in a while, so not many picnics. But yes if this is OH's attitude it sounds like it's high time for one. Only time I ever went to an OH park I do seem to remember something about firearms on the sign.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  9. #9
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Don't bother with the Pt. Townsend/Keystone ferry. It's the most trouble prone with tides & wind and requires reservations anymore. The Mukilteo/Clinton ferry runs every half hour pretty reliably. There's only a couple of us (that I know of) here on the island since LTCDR moved, and I haven't seen the other fellow on here in a while, so not many picnics. But yes if this is OH's attitude it sounds like it's high time for one. Only time I ever went to an OH park I do seem to remember something about firearms on the sign.
    I've never made a reservation for that run. even when they had borrowed the anderson island boat. Now with the new boats on the run I doubt a reservation is truly nessecary. if you got half the boat empty they're not going to refuse me passage. I always use the PT ferry when going to the island, although that's only 3-4 times a year.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Actually, if their city attorney officially advised them to do something to avoid major legal liability and they refused, I'm wondering if that will be grounds for their insurance company to drop them right away?
    Please get of the "insurance co" Kick. No city or county in this state pays into an "insurance co". All of them have insurance through the state shared fund.

    Even if that was not true, no insurance company will pay for a "willful illegal act". They just have their collective heads buried in their egos.

    If they do pass such a law, and try to inforce it, that would be a cause for "punitive" (punishment) damages.

  11. #11
    Regular Member wolf-father's Avatar
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    I have yet to see a sign but found the code around the time of the NNO and ask a officer there (while open carrying) And he told me he knows it is wrong and that it is cheaper to not enforce it then to change it. And now the Chief says what he says is a bit of a scary thought.

    6.14.070 Firearms and fireworks.
    It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm, fireworks, firecrackers, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park without the written permission of the council. (Ord. 214 § 8, 1965).

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Please get of the "insurance co" Kick. No city or county in this state pays into an "insurance co". All of them have insurance through the state shared fund.

    Even if that was not true, no insurance company will pay for a "willful illegal act". They just have their collective heads buried in their egos.

    If they do pass such a law, and try to inforce it, that would be a cause for "punitive" (punishment) damages.
    Municipalities of a smaller nature pay into a private insurance pool. My ex wife works for one of the two that provide insurance, Washington Cities Insurance Authority.

    http://www.wciapool.org/

    They do not pay into a 'state shared fund', but rather a co-op type of insurance pool that is 'quasi' private and they can and do get kicked out. Especially for not following standards put in place.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Municipalities of a smaller nature pay into a private insurance pool. My ex wife works for one of the two that provide insurance, Washington Cities Insurance Authority.

    http://www.wciapool.org/

    They do not pay into a 'state shared fund', but rather a co-op type of insurance pool that is 'quasi' private and they can and do get kicked out. Especially for not following standards put in place.
    Interesting..I was sure that "pool" was the state pool...learn something every day.

    I will stand by the other part though (until your wife states otherwise, but I would be very surprised...if it is "willfully illegal" (they knew it was illegal and did it anyway) it isn't covered.

    Anyway...I sent an email to jim Campbell, and thanked him for his stand...suggest everyone else does too.

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    Whenever I go to Windjammer Park I open carry all the time. Never a problem. I have addressed the Island County Code violation with the county commissioners and they said, basically, they weren't going to spend the money on changing anything but that all the officials and LEO knew it was not enforceable. Perhaps a motion could be made to the appropriate court for a simple writ of mandamus ordering the city/county to obey state law?

    I'm up for a picnic. We could invite the Whidbey Times to join us. Since I am stationed in Oak Harbor, but live in Stanwood, I can't take my gun to work so right after work is out - either my wife would have to bring my gun or I would have to have enough time to make the trip from Stanwood with it.

    If we do the picnic, we need to invite the Chief of Police and his officers and invite the Whidbey Times.

    I've looked for signs at Windjammer Park and don't remember seeing a firearms prohibition.
    Last edited by NavyLCDR; 01-01-2013 at 08:41 PM.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Whenever I go to Windjammer Park I open carry all the time. Never a problem. I have addressed the Island County Code violation with the county commissioners and they said, basically, they weren't going to spend the money on changing anything but that all the officials and LEO knew it was not enforceable. Perhaps a motion could be made to the appropriate court for a simple writ of mandamus ordering the city/county to obey state law?

    I'm up for a picnic. We could invite the Whidbey Times to join us. Since I am stationed in Oak Harbor, but live in Stanwood, I can't take my gun to work so right after work is out - either my wife would have to bring my gun or I would have to have enough time to make the trip from Stanwood with it.

    If we do the picnic, we need to invite the Chief of Police and his officers and invite the Whidbey Times.

    I've looked for signs at Windjammer Park and don't remember seeing a firearms prohibition.
    I'll loan you a HiPoint complete with holster if need be

    Or we could all do the unmentionable mentioned in the news blurb & see who gets drawn down on first.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    If Oak Harbor doesn't want to be a city anymore then by all means, pass illegal ordinances and blow all the cash on lawsuits.
    Yeah, a simple vote to unincorporate the city and disband the city government is MUCH cheaper.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Is Oak Harbor going to follow Seattle into lawsuit club?

    I'm down for a picnic, I'm only about an hour away.

    Scott

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Yeah, a simple vote to unincorporate the city and disband the city government is MUCH cheaper.
    They don't even have to vote on it, they just have to lose their insurance through doing nothing and leaving things the way they are.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Here is the Email answer I received from council memberJim Campbell. Anyone that can make the council meeting might consider going. (by permission)

    From: Jim Campbell
    Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:41 AM
    To: Herman
    Subject: RE: Oak harbor gun control ordinance.

    Thanx, Herman. You are welcome. I didn't think his answer was well thought out but in his defense I think he may have thought the question dealt with someone was carrying a rifle in the park. If I were a cop I most certainly be very weary of that situation.

    If enough citizens come to our meetings and use the citizen's comment period to complain about our vote I am almost sure it would be placed back on a later meeting agenda so we can vote smart. According to the rules because I voted against this item I cannot ask for it to be placed on a future agenda. We have a meeting this evening. It starts at 6 PM and the citizen's comment period is one of the first items we have. You get three minutes to say your piece.

    Jim Campbell
    Last edited by hermannr; 01-02-2013 at 12:12 PM.

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    Regular Member wolf-father's Avatar
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    I think I might consider going tonight. Not sure if I will OC or not seems a bit gun hostile around there. Will have my I love guns and coffee shirt.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Chief Green - egreen@oakharbor.org
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    While attempting to post a letter to the editor, I came across this gem:

    http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/opin...185101311.html

    Wow. Ignorance is glaring. Oh well. I submitted the following letter to the editor, I wonder if it will get printed?

    Dear editor,
    I read with great interest your story, "Oak Harbor takes a stab at gun regulation." I must ask this question. If I, John Havercroft, merely a regular citizen declared publicly that I did not care what state law prohibited, that obeying that state law made me uncomfortable and I had no intention of obeying that state law, would a story about me be worded the same?

    From your article, "Councilman Rick Servatius said he’s a former member of the National Rifle Association and supports people’s rights, but he said he’s not comfortable with people being able to carry guns around in places packed with children." Councilman Servatius - I am not comfortable with elected officials who are willing to disregard and disobey state laws because compliance with the law makes them uncomfortable.

    The state law in question here is the Revised Code of Washington, RCW 9.41.290, which reads in part, "... Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality." Councilmen Servatius and Almberg, do you understand what the words SHALL NOT mean in state law? Don't you expect me to abide by the SHALL NOTS contained in state law? Why are you above the law?

    I am also not comfortable with a Chief of Police who admits in public that his plans are to encourage his deparment to use firearms to commit crimes against law abiding citizens. Again, from your article, "The council members questioned Oak Harbor Police Chief Ed Green about how police would respond if someone was walking around a park with a rifle, which is legal under state and federal law. He said the officers would contact to the person, at gunpoint, and ask him or her to secure the firearm."

    In carrying out Chief Green's response, his officers would be committing a gross misdemeanor violating RCW 9A.36.070 which is the section of state law dealing with assault! RCW 9A.36.070, "(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he or she compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he or she has a legal right to engage in.
    (2) "Threat" as used in this section means:
    (a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or
    (b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(27) (a), (b), or (c)."
    (3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor."

    I must ask this...where is the concern about these people who are supportive of, at a minimum, ignoring Washington State law and the Washington State Constitution; and, at worst, advocating committing crimes while armed with firearms against citizens? Or are these people simply above the law? "For the sake of the children", of course.

    Very Respectfully,
    John Havercroft

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    While attempting to post a letter to the editor, I came across this gem:

    http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/opin...185101311.html

    Wow. Ignorance is glaring.
    I wonder what store that was? I've never noticed if the Ace Hardware up there sells binoculars, and Big 5 doesn't generally sell "machine guns" <facepalm>.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  24. #24
    Regular Member wolf-father's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    I wonder what store that was? I've never noticed if the Ace Hardware up there sells binoculars, and Big 5 doesn't generally sell "machine guns" <facepalm>.
    I think it is the telescope shop on 20 off the island.
    Anacortes Telescopes
    Last edited by wolf-father; 01-02-2013 at 01:54 PM.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I have visited this shop. A lot of high end rifles and a very relaxed atmosphere. Sweet Baboo and I did not see any machine guns (I always look).
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Washi...66874943419858

    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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