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Thread: Shooting at home

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    Shooting at home

    Anyone have any input/insight around setting up a range in your backyard? 790.15 refers to "recklessly" or "negligently" discharging in a residential area or used as a dwelling.

    As I read it...if I setup a range that is effectively backstopped and shoot in a safe manner...I don't need to drive 40 miles to shoot.

    Anytakers? BTW Happy New Year.

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    I've had LE called on me for shooting on private property. LEO politely told us the neighbor asked if we would stop, but we didn't have to. I say go for it.

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    Are you in a federal or state reserve? What are noise ordinances for your county? Are there county regulations concerning discharge of firearms?

    If you clear all of the above, used tires filled with gravel or sand make inexpensive backstops. Go at least two deep though so where the tires meet it is backed up by a full tire behind it. Always be aware that bullets can ricochet back at you, if you want a closer distance to the target move the target towards you, don't fire close to the backstop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Are you in a federal or state reserve? What are noise ordinances for your county? Are there county regulations concerning discharge of firearms?

    If you clear all of the above, used tires filled with gravel or sand make inexpensive backstops. Go at least two deep though so where the tires meet it is backed up by a full tire behind it. Always be aware that bullets can ricochet back at you, if you want a closer distance to the target move the target towards you, don't fire close to the backstop.
    Are there county regulations concerning discharge of firearms?
    Complete preemption in Florida. So any such ordinances are unenforceable and unlawful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Complete preemption in Florida. So any such ordinances are unenforceable and unlawful.
    Just for clarification could you cite the Florida preemption for discharging a firearm?
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    Here in the mountains of NC we just go out in the front yard and shoot putting up some targets next to the mountain side. No one has ever called and now and then you hear a few go off in the area. At times we have shot about 200 rounds with no problem. The county finally opened up a range but it in about 20 minutes from the house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wardtom084 View Post
    Here in the mountains of NC we just go out in the front yard and shoot putting up some targets next to the mountain side. No one has ever called and now and then you hear a few go off in the area. At times we have shot about 200 rounds with no problem. The county finally opened up a range but it in about 20 minutes from the house.
    Hearing gunshots around here is pretty much normal, except for the cities. I lived in the Florida Keys for sometime, I don't buy that there is a state preemption to discharge a firearm anywhere. If there is I want to see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Just for clarification could you cite the Florida preemption for discharging a firearm?
    Here:

    790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.—
    (1) PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by the State Constitution or general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or any administrative regulations or rules adopted by local or state government relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances, rules, or regulations are hereby declared null and void.
    . . .
    (3) POLICY AND INTENT.—
    (a) It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 01-03-2013 at 10:46 AM. Reason: typo

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Just what does that have to do with discharging a firearm? Please provide a cite that preempts noise laws, and discharging firearm laws?

    Plus the above has no effect of law to federal laws on federal land or reservations.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Just what does that have to do with discharging a firearm? Please provide a cite that preempts noise laws, and discharging firearm laws?

    Plus the above has no effect of law to federal laws on federal land or reservations.
    Plus the above has no effect of law to federal laws on federal land or reservations.
    Never said it did:
    Are there county regulations concerning discharge of firearms?
    Complete preemption in Florida. So any such ordinances are unenforceable and unlawful.


    Just what does that have to do with discharging a firearm?
    Here let me help you understand the written English language:
    The Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition. . .

    DICTIONARY
    whole
    Definition
    ADJECTIVE
    1. entire: complete, including all parts or aspects, with nothing left out
    Last edited by notalawyer; 01-03-2013 at 11:21 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Never said it did:






    Here let me help you understand the written English language:



    DICTIONARY
    whole
    Definition
    ADJECTIVE
    1. entire: complete, including all parts or aspects, with nothing left out
    There is nothing in those statutes about discharging firearms being preempted. If you have some case law please present it. If you truly believe you can stand in the middle of the street in Miami and discharge a firearm I would suggest you retain a lawyer.

    790.33 Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.—
    (1) PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by the State Constitution or general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or any administrative regulations or rules adopted by local or state government relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances, rules, or regulations are hereby declared null and void.

    The state cannot regulate the matter that is held in your intestines, but they can sure as helll regulate where you dump it. A act is not part of the preemption, only those associated with possession, carry, and transport. The intention of the law is clear, and spelled out. That statute has nothing to do with regulations concerning the discharge of firearms. You really need to contact a attorney before you end up with a pair of shiny bracelets. Just sayin`
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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    Pompano Man Accused of Publicly Discharging Firearm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50298324.../#.UOW1heRUquI

    790.15 Discharging firearm in public.—

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or whosoever knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. This section does not apply to a person lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or to a person discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or Division of Forestry.
    (2) Any occupant of any vehicle who knowingly and willfully discharges any firearm from the vehicle within 1,000 feet of any person commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    (3) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly directs any other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There is nothing in those statutes about discharging firearms being preempted. If you have some case law please present it. If you truly believe you can stand in the middle of the street in Miami and discharge a firearm I would suggest you retain a lawyer.
    You still do not understand the word "whole"...as in the whole field of firearm regulation......

    If you truly believe you can stand in the middle of the street in Miami and discharge a firearm I would suggest you retain a lawyer.
    Never said that either....that action would be illegal according to 790.15, F.S.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street, who knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street . . .commits a misdemeanor of the first degree. . .

    You seem to be angry that I pointed out your misinformation
    You also seem confused as to what we are discussing....
    As a reminder, the OP's initial question:
    Anyone have any input/insight around setting up a range in your backyard? 790.15 refers to "recklessly" or "negligently" discharging in a residential area or used as a dwelling.
    I would suggest you retain a lawyer.
    Thanks for the unsolicited advice, but I already have one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Pompano Man Accused of Publicly Discharging Firearm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50298324.../#.UOW1heRUquI

    790.15 Discharging firearm in public.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or whosoever knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. This section does not apply to a person lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or to a person discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or Division of Forestry.
    (2) Any occupant of any vehicle who knowingly and willfully discharges any firearm from the vehicle within 1,000 feet of any person commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    (3) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly directs any other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    You cannot be this dense (well I suppose you could be)....that is a state law where we were discussing County regulations......

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    You cannot be this dense (well I suppose you could be)....that is a state law where we were discussing County regulations......
    NOT as dense as someone who thinks they can discharge a firearm at will and anyplace they feel like. Clearly the state did not intend on preempting discharging firearms, or they would have put it in the preemption.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NOT as dense as someone who thinks they can discharge a firearm at will and anyplace they feel like. Clearly the state did not intend on preempting discharging firearms.
    NOT as dense as someone who thinks they can discharge a firearm at will and anyplace they feel like.
    Never said that either. You have serious reading comprehension issues!

    Clearly the state did not intend on preempting discharging firearms.
    You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Never said that either. You have serious reading comprehension issues!


    You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
    I obviously can at least read laws, and have enforced them. But be my guest go shooting in one of the cites, Indian Reservations, Federal Reservations, and see what the outcome it is. Go for it!

    You might want to also check with FDCFS just in case there are any children near by where you attempt to discharge a firearm.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 12:23 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I obviously can at least read laws, and have enforced them. But be my guest go shooting in one of the cites, Indian Reservations, Federal Reservations, and see what the outcome it is. Go for it!
    How could you possibly enforce a law that you could not read, or if you could read it, not understand it? Especially a law that is so simple that my three grand kids can understand? (P.S. They are all under three years of age!)

    DICTIONARY
    whole
    Definition
    ADJECTIVE
    1. entire: complete, including all parts or aspects, with nothing left out


    But be my guest go shooting in one of the cites, Indian Reservations, Federal Reservations, and see what the outcome it is.
    Again with the reading comprehension issues....

    But for grins, I'll address this one:
    Indian Reservations
    Criminal laws of Florida abide on Indian land. Tribes have no authority to punish non-Indians. <-- Settled law.


    WOW! Keep them coming.
    You might want to also check with FDCFS just in case there are any children near by where you attempt to discharge a firearm.
    Well, I've discharged firearms thousands of times near/with children, never had a problem. Oh, and there were LEO nearby too, and gasp, and some of them were shooting too!
    Last edited by notalawyer; 01-03-2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason: added response to your edit

  19. #19
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    How could you possibly enforce a law that you could not read, or if you could read it, not understand it? Especially a law that is so simple that my three grand kids can understand? (P.S. They are all under three years of age!)

    DICTIONARY
    whole
    Definition
    ADJECTIVE
    1. entire: complete, including all parts or aspects, with nothing left out



    Again with the reading comprehension issues....

    But for grins, I'll address this one:

    Criminal laws of Florida abide on Indian land. Tribes have no authority to punish non-Indians. <-- Settled law.
    Please stop the emotional rant, there is nothing in the preemption law about discharging firearms. While on the reservations you do have to follow tribal law, you obviously have no idea of what you speak. Noise ordinances have nothing to do whatsoever with firearm preemption, that is just outright stupid to think that it does. Not to mention that FMP can charge a person with illegal dumping of a hazardous material. The list is endless of what a person can be charged with. The preemption law has nothing to do with endangerment, dumping, and noise laws. Even the state clearly shows they do not a allow reckless discharge of a firearm. You have much more than reading comprehension issues.

    AGAIN where in the preemption statute does it define discharge of a firearm?

    "the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation"

    The field of regulation is clearly spelled out.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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    I went to the Florida Statues and Constitution website. I looked up the portion that was linked...and it DOES say that the state has preempted the whole of the firearms issue, to include ammo.....HOWEVER, the section previously posted does NOT cover firearm discharges, as that is another section...Look at Title XLVI, Chapter 790...and you find this..IF you look for something about discharging a firearm. (And this is just from a short 5 minute or less look at the published statues, not a long study):

    790.15 Discharging firearm in public or on residential property.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street, who knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises, or who recklessly or negligently discharges a firearm outdoors on any property used primarily as the site of a dwelling as defined in s. 776.013 or zoned exclusively for residential use commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. This section does not apply to a person lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or to a person discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or Florida Forest Service.
    (2) Any occupant of any vehicle who knowingly and willfully discharges any firearm from the vehicle within 1,000 feet of any person commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    (3) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly directs any other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    I am not going to argue either way on this, but 790.33 does NOT discuss firearm discharges, while 790.15 DOES. Now, continue your discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixael View Post
    I went to the Florida Statues and Constitution website. I looked up the portion that was linked...and it DOES say that the state has preempted the whole of the firearms issue, to include ammo.....HOWEVER, the section previously posted does NOT cover firearm discharges, as that is another section...Look at Title XLVI, Chapter 790...and you find this..IF you look for something about discharging a firearm. (And this is just from a short 5 minute or less look at the published statues, not a long study):



    I am not going to argue either way on this, but 790.33 does NOT discuss firearm discharges, while 790.15 DOES. Now, continue your discussion.
    Thanks, the way you read it is the same way I do. I am done discussing it, as there is no sense in a back and forth with no end. My intent initially to the OP was to make sure they do not end up in some mess. To research the ordinances, and the location with regard to law, and public safety. IMO staying clear of the courts is much better than spending money trying to defend yourself in court. If indeed it is lawful where the OP is there are a number of ways of building good inexpensive backstops.
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    Quote Originally Posted by im4Christ92 View Post
    Anyone have any input/insight around setting up a range in your backyard? 790.15 refers to "recklessly" or "negligently" discharging in a residential area or used as a dwelling.

    As I read it...if I setup a range that is effectively backstopped and shoot in a safe manner...I don't need to drive 40 miles to shoot.
    I'll just assume that everyone in this discussion has gone back to the original post to see what the original question was.

    Federal land and "Indian" land were not part of the question, nor was "shooting on the street in downtown Miami".

    Don't make this more difficult that it needs to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Please stop the emotional rant, there is nothing in the preemption law about discharging firearms. While on the reservations you do have to follow tribal law, you obviously have no idea of what you speak. Noise ordinances have nothing to do whatsoever with firearm preemption, that is just outright stupid to think that it does. Not to mention that FMP can charge a person with illegal dumping of a hazardous material. The list is endless of what a person can be charged with. The preemption law has nothing to do with endangerment, dumping, and noise laws. Even the state clearly shows they do not a allow reckless discharge of a firearm. You have much more than reading comprehension issues.

    AGAIN where in the preemption statute does it define discharge of a firearm?

    "the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation"

    The field of regulation is clearly spelled out.
    The field of regulation is clearly spelled out.
    Yep, by the use of the word WHOLE!

    The word WHOLE! What part of 'Whole' do you not understand?
    The legislature put those 'included' items in there just to confuse folks that do not comprehend the word WHOLE!


    Noise ordinances have nothing to do whatsoever with firearm preemption, that is just outright stupid to think that it does.
    I never made any statements related to noise ordinances.

    First it was CPS, now it's FMP? Who is that anyway? If you are referring to lead....that one is also covered by statute. 790.333, read it if you dare.

    Even the state clearly shows they do not a allow reckless discharge of a firearm.

    Which the legislature has exclusive authority to regulate. But we have been talking about the OP's question about safely shooting at his home, which is legal, notwithstanding any local laws to the contrary.

    While on the reservations you do have to follow tribal law, you obviously have no idea of what you speak.
    I'm far more versed on Florida law than you.

    285.16 Civil and criminal jurisdiction; Indian reservation.
    (1) The State of Florida hereby assumes jurisdiction over criminal offenses committed by or against Indians or other persons within Indian reservations and over civil causes of actions between Indians or other persons or to which Indians or other persons are parties rising within Indian reservations.
    (2) The civil and criminal laws of Florida shall obtain on all Indian reservations in this state and shall be enforced in the same manner as elsewhere throughout the state.
    In Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978), the United States Supreme Court ruled:
    . . . Indian tribes do not have inherent jurisdiction to try and to punish non-Indians. . .

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Yep, by the use of the word WHOLE!

    The word WHOLE! What part of 'Whole' do you not understand?
    The legislature put those 'included' items in there just to confuse folks that do not comprehend the word WHOLE!


    I never made any statements related to noise ordinances.

    First it was CPS, now it's FMP? Who is that anyway? If you are referring to lead....that one is also covered by statute. 790.333, read it if you dare.


    Which the legislature has exclusive authority to regulate. But we have been talking about the OP's question about safely shooting at his home, which is legal, notwithstanding any local laws to the contrary.


    I'm far more versed on Florida law than you.

    To clarify because you are non Indian does not mean you cannot be charged on tribal land, you will either be prosecuted by the federal government or the state government in some cases when the victim is non Indian and the aggressor is non Indian. You or any other criminal is not exempt from prosecution because they are on federal land. And the tribal law can and will arrest you and turn you over to federal authority. You do not seem to understand law even if you read it.


    In Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978), the United States Supreme Court ruled:
    Discharging a firearm has nothing to do with the whole of possession, and transportation. Law are what they say not what you want them to say. State laws do not supersede federal law. Please go to the nearest reservation and show your arse, see what happens. This is my last post on this because you see only what you want, and are trying to post another into submission. It no longer has anything to do with the OP but your hurt feelings. Get over it.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Yep, by the use of the word WHOLE!

    The word WHOLE! What part of 'Whole' do you not understand?
    The legislature put those 'included' items in there just to confuse folks that do not comprehend the word WHOLE!


    I never made any statements related to noise ordinances.

    First it was CPS, now it's FMP? Who is that anyway? If you are referring to lead....that one is also covered by statute. 790.333, read it if you dare.


    Which the legislature has exclusive authority to regulate. But we have been talking about the OP's question about safely shooting at his home, which is legal, notwithstanding any local laws to the contrary.


    I'm far more versed on Florida law than you.



    In Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978), the United States Supreme Court ruled:
    "the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation thereof"

    Discharging a firearm has nothing to do with the whole of possession, and transportation. Law are what they say not what you want them to say. State laws do not supersede federal law. Please go to the nearest reservation and show your arse, see what happens. This is my last post on this because you see only what you want, and are trying to post another into submission. It no longer has anything to do with the OP but your hurt feelings. Get over it.

    You are not exempt from prosecution on tribal lands, that is bullshitt. A person who breaks the law on federal tribal land will be prosecuted in the appropriate court, federal, state, or tribal. Non Indians are not exempt from the law anywhere.

    http://www.tribal-institute.org/lists/jurisdiction.htm

    I am done now, feel free to keep rambling your bovine scatology.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-03-2013 at 01:50 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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