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Thread: They Dance in the Blood of our Children!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They Dance in the Blood of our Children!

    As a father, I weep with sadness and my heart aches for the murdered children in Connecticut, I can only imagine with horror what the parents are enduring and the emotional turmoil they are going through. I can't imagine this happening to my kids or how I would deal with it. So all I can do is mourn the loss of such innocence and give my condolences to the families of the slain.

    Yet my mourning is cut short because immediately the call is for an infringement upon a fundamental right. I find myself having to switch my emotions and thoughts from their proper place of dwelling on this horrible tragedy and loss our country has experienced and grieving to a defensive one having to retaliate with logic the immediate attack of those not wanting to waste a crisis. I don't want to do this I feel horrible having to do this, because we should be focusing our energies in giving support to those who are the surviving victims of a murderous madman, but I know if I don't and others who value their fundamental rights don't, that those constantly on the look out for incidents to rationalize their encroaching tyranny will win.

    I experience another emotion at these people, anger. Not anger in a temper tantrum, physically going to act out manner but righteous indignation at these monsters who dance in the blood of our children. Shame on you!
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 01-02-2013 at 11:10 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I get where you're coming from but the delivery is a wee bit over the top. But, that is just me.

    If only the liberals would dance in the blood of the children killed by drunk drivers. Then, if liberals would call for the enactment of restrictions on the sale and possession of tools that kill more innocent lives each year than all of the gun crime in America combined, that would stop once and for all the senseless slaughter of our precious children due to drunk drivers.

    The government is, in my view, the responsible party for this tragic event. Those who voted for anti-liberty nitwits who enacted these laws are also to bare some responsibility. I find it ironic that some of those directly affected by these senseless deaths likely voted for the folks who forbid adults from being in a position to protect a bunch of kindergartners.

    Your anger should not be focused on liberals who call for new laws that would restrict individual liberty, liberals have and will always call for new laws to restrict individual liberty. Your anger must be focused, like a laser beam, on those who heed those calls and cast a vote in your state legislature and the halls of Congress that restrict individual liberty.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Anyone who does not further laws will also be vilified as baby killers too .. get ready for your reps to start calling you this ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    SNIP Not anger in a temper tantrum, physically going to act out manner but righteous indignation at these monsters who dance in the blood of our children. Shame on you!
    They're also dancing in the blood of the children their philosophy helped kill. They support rendering people defenseless.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    They Dance in the Blood of our Children!

    Guys, for the most part is people that have fear of guns and wishes to live in a world free of such horrible violence and hate. They do not have the means to understand why this tragedies happen or how to prevent them... It's just simpleminded thinking. We need to educate them.

    When the media constantly show us black/latino males as criminals there will be a huge number of us that will immediately fear black/Latino males and mistrust them, therefore this issue is no different than that kind of racism.

    I live this reality myself as a latino immigrant, doesn't matter how much I love this nation and how much I'm committed to it there will be a vast number of people who will dislike me and mistrust me without even knowing me because I their fears and ignorance.

    I have met very knowledgeable, respectful, honest, compassionate family people that own guns for the most part and I think this very important for everyone else to realize. But how are we going to let them know this kindness to be trusted if we hate them back.

    People blame gun owners for this tragedies, people blame immigrants for the economy, people blame each other a lot. Instead of looking for solutions we look for scape goats. It's easier.

    I totally understand your frustration OP and I share some of those feelings, I know it's tempting to label and be condescending but I beg you to use this drive force to change things and educate them so you can find more allies. Please, let's try to make some them understand thru logic instead of scare them even more to push harder towards some legislation they think will protect them but we know it would actually be the reverse effect.

    In the same way I have to prove myself worth to be trusted to the eyes of people that judge me for the color of my skin and my accent. Some will never do tho, the ones that fear and hate.

    Media is trying to divide people, divided we are weaker, unarmed we are doomed.

    Peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pejerrey View Post
    Guys, for the most part is people that have fear of guns and wishes to live in a world free of such horrible violence and hate. They do not have the means to understand why this tragedies happen or how to prevent them... It's just simpleminded thinking. We need to educate them.

    When the media constantly show us black/latino males as criminals there will be a huge number of us that will immediately fear black/Latino males and mistrust them, therefore this issue is no different than that kind of racism.

    I live this reality myself as a latino immigrant, doesn't matter how much I love this nation and how much I'm committed to it there will be a vast number of people who will dislike me and mistrust me without even knowing me because I their fears and ignorance.

    I have met very knowledgeable, respectful, honest, compassionate family people that own guns for the most part and I think this very important for everyone else to realize. But how are we going to let them know this kindness to be trusted if we hate them back.

    People blame gun owners for this tragedies, people blame immigrants for the economy, people blame each other a lot. Instead of looking for solutions we look for scape goats. It's easier.

    I totally understand your frustration OP and I share some of those feelings, I know it's tempting to label and be condescending but I beg you to use this drive force to change things and educate them so you can find more allies. Please, let's try to make some them understand thru logic instead of scare them even more to push harder towards some legislation they think will protect them but we know it would actually be the reverse effect.

    In the same way I have to prove myself worth to be trusted to the eyes of people that judge me for the color of my skin and my accent. Some will never do tho, the ones that fear and hate.

    Media is trying to divide people, divided we are weaker, unarmed we are doomed.

    Peace.
    I think your analysis is a little too generalized. While some anti-gunners are running on honest emotion, the veterans are evil. The arguments in favor of self-defense are too common and easy to grasp. You can't possibly be connected to this issue more than briefly without encountering positive ideas about self-defense. The veteran anti-gunners can't have not noticed. Their appeals to fear, evasions when put on the spot, and deliberately distorted statistics expose them.

    The ability to defend oneself is too easy to grasp.

    I agree educate the rest. It will help nullify the really bad ones.
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-02-2013 at 01:00 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Gun control has nothing to do with saving lives, children or adults. It has to do with control!
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I think your analysis is a little too generalized. While some anti-gunners are running on honest emotion, the veterans are evil. The arguments in favor of self-defense are too common and easy to grasp. You can't possibly be connected to this issue more than briefly without encountering positive ideas about self-defense. The veteran anti-gunners can't have not noticed. Their appeals to fear, evasions when put on the spot, and deliberately distorted statistics expose them.

    The ability to defend oneself is too easy to grasp.

    I agree educate the rest. It will help nullify the really bad ones.
    Uh.....it is not education that is needed it is "air time" that is needed. The gun issue is a propaganda campaign. As you correctly point out the concept of self-defense is inarguable. Everybody knows that a gun makes self-defense possible. What everybody does not know is whether or not it is legal for them to own, and then carry (if they choose), a gun.
    The lord made men, but Sam Colt made them equal
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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I get where you're coming from but the delivery is a wee bit over the top. But, that is just me.

    If only the liberals would dance in the blood of the children killed by drunk drivers. Then, if liberals would call for the enactment of restrictions on the sale and possession of tools that kill more innocent lives each year than all of the gun crime in America combined, that would stop once and for all the senseless slaughter of our precious children due to drunk drivers.

    The government is, in my view, the responsible party for this tragic event. Those who voted for anti-liberty nitwits who enacted these laws are also to bare some responsibility. I find it ironic that some of those directly affected by these senseless deaths likely voted for the folks who forbid adults from being in a position to protect a bunch of kindergartners.

    Your anger should not be focused on liberals who call for new laws that would restrict individual liberty, liberals have and will always call for new laws to restrict individual liberty. Your anger must be focused, like a laser beam, on those who heed those calls and cast a vote in your state legislature and the halls of Congress that restrict individual liberty.
    You are correct it is over the top, I wish I could rewrite the title it was written in a moment of Passion, and are words borrowed from a friend of mine upset about the same situation. I was feeling particularly down about those children this morning. I really detest that anytime something grave happens the powers to be use it as a tool on both sides of the Left, Right spectrum.

    Thank you for your post.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    They're also dancing in the blood of the children their philosophy helped kill. They support rendering people defenseless.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Gun control has nothing to do with saving lives, children or adults. It has to do with control!
    Exactly!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    Dancing is common at times. I recall reports of a white van on 9/11 with five dancers...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pejerrey View Post
    Guys, for the most part is people that have fear of guns and wishes to live in a world free of such horrible violence and hate. They do not have the means to understand why this tragedies happen or how to prevent them... It's just simpleminded thinking. We need to educate them.

    When the media constantly show us black/latino males as criminals there will be a huge number of us that will immediately fear black/Latino males and mistrust them, therefore this issue is no different than that kind of racism.

    I live this reality myself as a latino immigrant, doesn't matter how much I love this nation and how much I'm committed to it there will be a vast number of people who will dislike me and mistrust me without even knowing me because I their fears and ignorance.

    I have met very knowledgeable, respectful, honest, compassionate family people that own guns for the most part and I think this very important for everyone else to realize. But how are we going to let them know this kindness to be trusted if we hate them back.

    People blame gun owners for this tragedies, people blame immigrants for the economy, people blame each other a lot. Instead of looking for solutions we look for scape goats. It's easier.

    I totally understand your frustration OP and I share some of those feelings, I know it's tempting to label and be condescending but I beg you to use this drive force to change things and educate them so you can find more allies. Please, let's try to make some them understand thru logic instead of scare them even more to push harder towards some legislation they think will protect them but we know it would actually be the reverse effect.

    In the same way I have to prove myself worth to be trusted to the eyes of people that judge me for the color of my skin and my accent. Some will never do tho, the ones that fear and hate.

    Media is trying to divide people, divided we are weaker, unarmed we are doomed.

    Peace.
    If I emulated hate back, I apologize this was not my intent. Although I truly despise the "veterans" that Citizen brings out.

    Logic and Reason are always my first weapons of defense. I was just venting a bit this morning about those in power who purposefully grasp at these events and twist what should be a solemn situation into one of where they gleefully push an agenda and wipe fake tears from their eyes. Who's crying for the murdered innocent children from the Fed's drones? I am deeply saddened by this too and they have cheapened the life of our young ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I think your analysis is a little too generalized. While some anti-gunners are running on honest emotion, the veterans are evil. The arguments in favor of self-defense are too common and easy to grasp. You can't possibly be connected to this issue more than briefly without encountering positive ideas about self-defense. The veteran anti-gunners can't have not noticed. Their appeals to fear, evasions when put on the spot, and deliberately distorted statistics expose them.

    The ability to defend oneself is too easy to grasp.

    I agree educate the rest. It will help nullify the really bad ones.
    Your right it is evil, pure evil. They use a sad heart wrenching situation, knowing what our reaction and the reaction of people who are knowledgeable about rights will be, and then use that to make it look like we are the evil ones. It's practically demonic.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Sometimes solutions are the cause to the problems. Take the surge of sales of AR platform firearms, before this it was AK platforms, all brought on by the attempt to find a solution to them before there actually was a problem. The media and the government have driven sales of the very guns they fear. The media has made it a fad for troubled youth to shoot up Gun Free Zones. The problem was not there until the idea of Gun Free Zones became popular. Shear stupidity...
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Sometimes solutions are the cause to the problems. Take the surge of sales of AR platform firearms, before this it was AK platforms, all brought on by the attempt to find a solution to them before there actually was a problem. The media and the government have driven sales of the very guns they fear. The media has made it a fad for troubled youth to shoot up Gun Free Zones. The problem was not there until the idea of Gun Free Zones became popular. Shear stupidity...
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Necro thread whatever!

    The sentiment is again expressed. Different time , venue and situation.....F' you anti liberty folks for making me argue about the right to have arms instead of what should be our mutual grief over these tragedies.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Necro thread whatever!

    The sentiment is again expressed. Different time , venue and situation.....F' you anti liberty folks for making me argue about the right to have arms...
    Agreed.

    Counter-attack. The vicious, brutal jerks would render us all defenseless.

    Yep, I said it. Vicious and brutal I said, vicious and brutal I meant. They would use government force and its threat to render everyone defenseless, to make everyone a defenseless potential victim of murder.

    The blood of the innocents is on their hands, not ours.

    Counter-attack. Don't explain. Don't argue. Vigorously accuse them.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Agreed.

    Counter-attack. The vicious, brutal jerks would render us all defenseless.

    Yep, I said it. Vicious and brutal I said, vicious and brutal I meant. They would use government force and its threat to render everyone defenseless, to make everyone a defenseless potential victim of murder.

    The blood of the innocents is on their hands, not ours.

    Counter-attack. Don't explain. Don't argue. Vigorously accuse them.
    Rah rah rah!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Necro thread whatever!

    The sentiment is again expressed. Different time , venue and situation.....F' you anti liberty folks for making me argue about the right to have arms instead of what should be our mutual grief over these tragedies.
    +1 I concur.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I get where you're coming from but the delivery is a wee bit over the top. But, that is just me.

    If only the liberals would dance in the blood of the children killed by drunk drivers. Then, if liberals would call for the enactment of restrictions on the sale and possession of tools that kill more innocent lives each year than all of the gun crime in America combined, that would stop once and for all the senseless slaughter of our precious children due to drunk drivers.

    The government is, in my view, the responsible party for this tragic event. Those who voted for anti-liberty nitwits who enacted these laws are also to bare some responsibility. I find it ironic that some of those directly affected by these senseless deaths likely voted for the folks who forbid adults from being in a position to protect a bunch of kindergartners.

    Your anger should not be focused on liberals who call for new laws that would restrict individual liberty, liberals have and will always call for new laws to restrict individual liberty. Your anger must be focused, like a laser beam, on those who heed those calls and cast a vote in your state legislature and the halls of Congress that restrict individual liberty.
    And what's kinda odd....if one of those people who went to the club would have posted here that they wanted to carry in a GFZ and advocate for carry in GFZs, why that person would have gotten banned here. After all, posting here is only for the "law-abiding". Food for thought.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    And what's kinda odd....if one of those people who went to the club would have posted here that they wanted to carry in a GFZ and advocate for carry in GFZs, why that person would have gotten banned here. After all, posting here is only for the "law-abiding". Food for thought.
    Not so, sir. There are many intermediate steps available before maybe/possibly moving to banishment.

    Also saying he/she "wanted to carry" there is not the same as to "advocate" carrying in a place were that is statutorily illegal. You force the connection between the two falsely. They are not joined at the hip.

    Going one last point: Posting here on OCDO is not only for the "law abiding." Various people have broken some law, somewhere, sometime. You have perverted/misused Forum Rule #15 to force your square peg into that round hole.

    Consider your words carefully. As the old adage says, Words have meanings.

    Your argument/post is falsely concluded, therefore unreliable.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-15-2016 at 12:38 PM. Reason: fixed
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