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Thread: Open carry support sign at MC Sports

  1. #1
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Open carry support sign at MC Sports

    I always try and make a special note to businesses who support our right to open carry. I saw this sign today while walking into MC Sports in Traverse City and thought I would make mention of it
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Would be great if all businesses posted signs like that. Hopefully someday.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Open carry support sign at MC Sports

    Jays has said sign, as does Cabellas, as does Gander Mountain.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry support sign at MC Sports

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Jays has said sign, as does Cabellas, as does Gander Mountain.
    At one time they did not... In fact at one time many of them harassed ocers.. I recall a letter or two were sent from the then president of MOC in order that we now have the signs in question.
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    Regular Member FerretMI's Avatar
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    It's funny to me that they posted that sign. When they hire security for their outdoor tent sales, the security enforcement officers are required to be unarmed. To quote the manager of the Big Rapids location, "[Security] won't need guns."

    You sell guns, bows, knives, etc.; have people that carry firearms into and out of the store; and you still think that there will be no use for armed security? Give me a break.

    *end rant*
    Last edited by FerretMI; 01-02-2013 at 07:01 PM.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI View Post
    It's funny to me that they posted that sign. When they hire security for their outdoor tent sales, the security enforcement officers are required to be unarmed. To quote the manager of the Big Rapids location, "[Security] won't need guns."

    You sell guns, bows, knives, etc.; have people that carry firearms into and out of the store; and you still think that there will be no use for armed security? Give me a break.

    *end rant*
    That casts a poor outlook of supposedly "lawful citizens" open carrying doesn't it?

    Understand, I agree that unarmed security is a contradiction in terms (worked security for over 13 years) and as such is pretty useless. But you also have to consider that armed security is more expensive, so less desirable. Idiotic as it may seem.
    Last edited by Ezerharden; 01-02-2013 at 07:41 PM.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  7. #7
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry support sign at MC Sports

    If you can get enough customers carrying, open or not you can supply your own free armed security
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI View Post
    It's funny to me that they posted that sign. When they hire security for their outdoor tent sales, the security enforcement officers are required to be unarmed. To quote the manager of the Big Rapids location, "[Security] won't need guns."

    You sell guns, bows, knives, etc.; have people that carry firearms into and out of the store; and you still think that there will be no use for armed security? Give me a break.

    *end rant*
    Armed Law Abiding Citizens are their own security,thus no need for paid security,as the Founders Understood and enshrined the words "The Right of The People,to Bear Arms"! Simply Genius!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    Regular Member FerretMI's Avatar
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    There is no cost difference between armed and unarmed security with the company they contracted; this was made known to the manager. Two weeks and not a single open carrier or not-so-concealed carrier spotted...

  10. #10
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Open carry support sign at MC Sports

    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI View Post
    There is no cost difference between armed and unarmed security with the company they contracted; this was made known to the manager. Two weeks and not a single open carrier or not-so-concealed carrier spotted...
    I know an unarmed security guard -- bullet catcher. He tells me he makes about $10 an hour. He also says armed guards make about $17-$18/hr.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI
    There is no cost difference between armed and unarmed security with the company they contracted; this was made known to the manager. Two weeks and not a single open carrier or not-so-concealed carrier spotted...
    I know an unarmed security guard -- bullet catcher. He tells me he makes about $10 an hour. He also says armed guards make about $17-$18/hr.
    We hired private security in some cases while I was in the military, if the installation to be guarded was of relatively low value. You're correct, there is a significant actual cost differential between unarmed and armed security.

    Ferret may be right that the contracted company only offered one price, but that would only be because they quoted only the higher price of armed security and the store owners or management either didn't do due diligence or had a non-price reason to go with them. Or there was a sack of money under the negotiating table, influencing the procurement manager's decision. That's always a possibility to be considered when things don't pass the smell test, such as this case.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  12. #12
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Re: Open carry support sign at MC Sports

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I know an unarmed security guard -- bullet catcher. He tells me he makes about $10 an hour. He also says armed guards make about $17-$18/hr.
    Just like everything ells it all depends on the company. Out in Washington I was making $14 an hour working as un armed security. Some other company's in the area had armed security and they only made $12 an hour. I don't know about Michigan but when I looked into working the armored cars in Washington I stopped looking when I learned they all make state minimum wage. Now there is a good idea these people are handling possibly millions of dollars a day, have to carry a gun and a vest and some company thinks minimum wage is appropriate? A year or two ago we had a armored car guard shot and killed while he was emptying out a coin star machine. Someone shot and killed him over literally someone else's pocket change. I decided there are better ways to make $8 an hour
    Last edited by fire suppressor; 01-03-2013 at 09:44 AM.
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ
    I know an unarmed security guard -- bullet catcher. He tells me he makes about $10 an hour. He also says armed guards make about $17-$18/hr.
    Just like everything ells it all depends on the company.
    The point being made by Q with his example is only that unarmed security costs less than armed security. That is a fact. Whatever price points that are specific to a company or prevailing in a state, unarmed security costs $X and armed security costs $Y (fill in as appropriate). X is always less than Y. Unarmed security always costs less than armed security, for any given site or protectee at a given point in time.

    Any company that prices unarmed security the same as armed security is BS'ing or incompetent in regard to their business.
    Last edited by DanM; 01-03-2013 at 11:22 AM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI View Post
    There is no cost difference between armed and unarmed security with the company they contracted; this was made known to the manager. Two weeks and not a single open carrier or not-so-concealed carrier spotted...
    I don't see how that could be. The insurance that a company pays to cover the presence of armed security is quite a bit higher than just having a warm body in a uniform. And from what I've seen, armed security in this state are generally paid about 1.5 to 2 times as much as unarmed security.
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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    I don't see how that could be. The insurance that a company pays to cover the presence of armed security is quite a bit higher than just having a warm body in a uniform. And from what I've seen, armed security in this state are generally paid about 1.5 to 2 times as much as unarmed security.
    I have worked unarmed security and armed security, I was paid considerably more for the armed guard job. I am sure the company that placed me made more when I was armed as well.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  16. #16
    Regular Member FerretMI's Avatar
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    I made less than $10 per hour. Most of the contracts for the company were signed as "Armed Optional," meaning the guards able to work armed (CPL, firearm, level 3 duty holster, etc.) could if they chose to (why the hell would one choose not to?) and those unable to work armed could work the same site, all for the unarmed client rate. Only "Armed Mandatory" sites charged the clients a higher rate, of which the guards never saw a dime.

    The MC Sports contracted another security company (at way-too-high of a rate), which subcontracted the company I worked for. The manager was informed of the (no-additional-charge) option to have our guards (who are able) work armed, and yet he declined. It may be just two store managers (this also happened in Portage), but I'm just telling it how it is.

    I wasn't saying it's how all security works, just this specific case. Put your torches and pitchforks away, people.

  17. #17
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI View Post
    I made less than $10 per hour. Most of the contracts for the company were signed as "Armed Optional," meaning the guards able to work armed (CPL, firearm, level 3 duty holster, etc.) could if they chose to (why the hell would one choose not to?) and those unable to work armed could work the same site, all for the unarmed client rate. Only "Armed Mandatory" sites charged the clients a higher rate, of which the guards never saw a dime.

    The MC Sports contracted another security company (at way-too-high of a rate), which subcontracted the company I worked for. The manager was informed of the (no-additional-charge) option to have our guards (who are able) work armed, and yet he declined. It may be just two store managers (this also happened in Portage), but I'm just telling it how it is.

    I wasn't saying it's how all security works, just this specific case. Put your torches and pitchforks away, people.
    I'm not saying it's not possible. I just find it very surprising is all.
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