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Thread: Response to OC in Springfield

  1. #1
    Regular Member Mykhael's Avatar
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    Response to OC in Springfield

    My question to municipal court here in Springfield.

    Is it legal to open carry in the city of Springfield? I looked through city ordinances and did not see where it was listed.


    Their response

    It is legal to open carry in the city of Springfield. However Police want to make sure you understand this will probably bring attention to you from business owners and customers. Businesses also have the right to ask you to leave if they donít want a gun in their store. Police said people will likely call 911 to have them check to see if you should be carrying a firearm. When people see someone with a firearm and they are not law enforcement personnel, with badges, they call 911. They said that takes at least two officers away from other duties when they have to come check.

    I have a question in to the Municipal Prosecutor about carrying a firearm into a business that is posted with a sign that states firearms are not allowed. I have not heard back from him yet, but will let you know once I do.

    Claudia Crighton

    Citizen Service Coordinator

    Dept. of Public Information

    City of Springfield

    Ph: 864-1012 Fax: 864-1114

    CCrighton@springfieldmo.gov

  2. #2
    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Should have asked her how many cops it takes to respond to people wearing green shoes. Or more aptly, why do officers need to check on people participating in completely legal activities.

  3. #3
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    In MO. OC is legal except where it is not legal. The muni-codes will not state that is legal.
    When searching for "legal" or "NOT legal" just check the muni-codes. Asking will often get you opinons which are not supportive of your rights. You do not need "permission" to exercise your rights.

    My friend, you really need to meet up with OCers. The truth, the facts are not always self evident... You have seek information from the right people, noit the lew enforcement people. Many LOEs do not know the local laws or far that matter State Statutes when it comes to firearms.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mykhael View Post
    My question to municipal court here in Springfield.

    Is it legal to open carry in the city of Springfield? I looked through city ordinances and did not see where it was listed.


    Their response

    It is legal to open carry in the city of Springfield. However Police want to make sure you understand this will probably bring attention to you from business owners and customers. Businesses also have the right to ask you to leave if they donít want a gun in their store. Police said people will likely call 911 to have them check to see if you should be carrying a firearm. When people see someone with a firearm and they are not law enforcement personnel, with badges, they call 911. They said that takes at least two officers away from other duties when they have to come check.

    I have a question in to the Municipal Prosecutor about carrying a firearm into a business that is posted with a sign that states firearms are not allowed. I have not heard back from him yet, but will let you know once I do.

    Claudia Crighton

    Citizen Service Coordinator

    Dept. of Public Information

    City of Springfield

    Ph: 864-1012 Fax: 864-1114

    CCrighton@springfieldmo.gov
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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    It is legal to OC in Springfield... All that "taking LEO's from other duties, folks calling 911 and all" is a bunch of crap I have been OCing for over a year now, on a daily basis and have had only a handful of MWAG calls. (I also walk alot so that really accounts for most of them.) In truth alot of folks never even notice. And as far as the LEO's are concerned, most of them do not want folks to carry, or at least OC, so they will say crap like what they told you to try to dissuade you from carrying. I have carried in Springfield in the past and will continue to do so when I make another trip down their. I have never had any problems and I really do not see any forthcoming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    Many LOEs do not know the local laws or far that matter State Statutes when it comes to firearms.
    Unfortunately, in my experience this is true. Admittedly, I have a statistically insignificant sample size, but I'd say maybe 1 in 4 LEOs I've talked to actually knew the carry law in their area.

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    Regular Member HighFlyingA380's Avatar
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    Damn, replied to the wrong thread. Sorry.
    Last edited by HighFlyingA380; 01-04-2013 at 07:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykhael View Post
    My question to municipal court here in Springfield.

    Is it legal to open carry in the city of Springfield? I looked through city ordinances and did not see where it was listed.


    Their response

    It is legal to open carry in the city of Springfield. However Police want to make sure you understand this will probably bring attention to you from business owners and customers. Businesses also have the right to ask you to leave if they don’t want a gun in their store. Police said people will likely call 911 to have them check to see if you should be carrying a firearm. When people see someone with a firearm and they are not law enforcement personnel, with badges, they call 911. They said that takes at least two officers away from other duties when they have to come check.

    I have a question in to the Municipal Prosecutor about carrying a firearm into a business that is posted with a sign that states firearms are not allowed. I have not heard back from him yet, but will let you know once I do.

    Claudia Crighton

    Citizen Service Coordinator

    Dept. of Public Information

    City of Springfield

    Ph: 864-1012 Fax: 864-1114

    CCrighton@springfieldmo.gov
    Gee, how can this be if I was fearmongering? Oh that's right, I have dealt with SPD, the municipal court, Greene County Sheriff, and Troop D on this exact matter as well as injecting incident occurrences and personal experiences into the matter. Expect it, then when nothing happens drive on with a smile!

    Thanks for asking the municipal court, many won't ask to gain an understanding. You showed a great courtesy by asking them knowing you could get a biased response. Keep municode.com on-hand, you might find it useful for other municipalities. When in doubt, have that CCW and just cover up....until the stupidity ceases.

    Great point mspgunner! Far too many carry because the department says they have to and far too few are up to speed on open carry or concealed carry. Had to point out Paragraph 2 of 571.107 to a SPD officer a couple of years ago. Specifically: Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act....

    Let's just say that he was taking cues from the Blue Book that didn't have Paragraph 2 (at the time) as well as taking advice from someone who doesn't know anything about Missouri law, doesn't have a CCW, and until last year hadn't owned a pistol in over 10 years.

    Some of you may be wondering what the Blue Book is that I mentioned. It's a fast-reference manual for LEOs in Missouri and it's often quite accurate while being rather inaccurate as well. Certain things deemed not relevant are left out and that means that you might get a LEO that pulls out the Blue Book and attempts to run you in on a bogus charge that would immediately be overturned by looking it up on the official website. When the website is updated, many don't get updated Blue Books for a while, some will never seek out an updated Blue Book and just "think" they know the law. So when one breaks out the BB, ask for a supervisor and have them access the website....especially when it comes to anything firearms related. There are plenty of good LEOs that know the BB differs from the website and they'll confirm before taking any action. Even if you're in the wrong, if they do this to confirm make sure to thank them.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 01-07-2013 at 02:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    In MO. OC is legal except where it is not legal. The muni-codes will not state that is legal.
    When searching for "legal" or "NOT legal" just check the muni-codes. Asking will often get you opinons which are not supportive of your rights. You do not need "permission" to exercise your rights.

    My friend, you really need to meet up with OCers. The truth, the facts are not always self evident... You have seek information from the right people, noit the lew enforcement people. Many LOEs do not know the local laws or far that matter State Statutes when it comes to firearms.

    I hope you heard the crickets in the room as much as I did when I read your post mspgunner. I had to chuckle a bit because that is my typical response to the OC question in CCW classes with a prompt suggestion to visit OCDO to help locate information on the matter. It's legal, except where it's not legal...get it? (crickets)

  9. #9
    Regular Member Boba Fett's Avatar
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    I have yet to have any SPD talk to me for OC'ing. I've been kicked out of 3 stores by business managers (one was in Ozark), but they all handled it appropriately. Springfield is pretty OC friendly. Be sure to check out http://friendorfoe.us/ for a google-style map of friendly and not-so-friendly places in Springfield.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REALteach4u View Post
    <snip> When the website is updated, many don't get updated Blue Books for a while, some will never seek out an updated Blue Book and just "think" they know the law. So when one breaks out the BB, ask for a supervisor and have them access the website....especially when it comes to anything firearms related. There are plenty of good LEOs that know the BB differs from the website and they'll confirm before taking any action. <snip>
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the advent of "smartphones" I can access the RSMo website and read the law in seconds. If that nitwit cop don't have a Interwebs connection in his car, or his pocket, he can use mine.....I got a shortcut to RSMo 571 on my phone.

    As to that "there are plenty of good LEOs" crap.....if there are plenty of "good ones" how come we continue to have far too many "bad ones." Or, is it that the good ones are not so good after all. How can one cop know and another not know.

    Not a rant at you per se, but at the false premise that you perpetuate. I refuse to accept that false premise. It is nothing more than a excuse to wiggle out of being held accountable. Stop the madness and hold that cop accountable and hold their bureaucrat bosses accountable for the actions of their minions.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
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    Not a rant at you per se, but at the false premise that you perpetuate. I refuse to accept that false premise. It is nothing more than a excuse to wiggle out of being held accountable. Stop the madness and hold that cop accountable and hold their bureaucrat bosses accountable for the actions of their minions.

    better yet, lets dump a boat load of these jokers and cull a boat load of the laws so that a person could at least possibly know them all! I am not making excuses for an officer not knowing, but there are way too many to start with so the excuse of not knowing them all is quite legit.

    I believe that is actually one of our main points, there are likely 50 or so laws relating to OC depending upon your exact geographic location at the time. It changes literally within feet in some locations.

    We need ONE oc law in MO, one that says if you are carrying a firearm in a legal manner anywhere in the state you shall be free from all forms of harassment from ALL government persons.

    keeping it that simple, it leaves private parties free to restrict as they see fit but the government completely out of it as our country was founded on such principles.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman Universityís School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    better yet, lets dump a boat load of these jokers and cull a boat load of the laws so that a person could at least possibly know them all! I am not making excuses for an officer not knowing, but there are way too many to start with so the excuse of not knowing them all is quite legit.

    I believe that is actually one of our main points, there are likely 50 or so laws relating to OC depending upon your exact geographic location at the time. It changes literally within feet in some locations.

    We need ONE oc law in MO, one that says if you are carrying a firearm in a legal manner anywhere in the state you shall be free from all forms of harassment from ALL government persons.

    keeping it that simple, it leaves private parties free to restrict as they see fit but the government completely out of it as our country was founded on such principles.
    Dang it, way to kill a thread. Not much can be said now.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
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    With the advent of "smartphones" I can access the RSMo website and read the law in seconds. If that nitwit cop don't have a Interwebs connection in his car, or his pocket, he can use mine.....I got a shortcut to RSMo 571 on my phone.

    As to that "there are plenty of good LEOs" crap.....if there are plenty of "good ones" how come we continue to have far too many "bad ones." Or, is it that the good ones are not so good after all. How can one cop know and another not know.

    Not a rant at you per se, but at the false premise that you perpetuate. I refuse to accept that false premise. It is nothing more than a excuse to wiggle out of being held accountable. Stop the madness and hold that cop accountable and hold their bureaucrat bosses accountable for the actions of their minions.
    Haven't met a cop yet that would take the time to access any website to verify what a person is trying to tell them in a nice way. They seem to have the attitude "By god I got the badge and therefore makes me know the law better than you" On the day on Feb 24, 2004 when the MO Supreme said O.K. on CCW had a MSHP Trooper tell me it was illegal to CCW on a OOS permit. I offered to let him read the law but he refused. I spoke with his supervisor a couple of days later about the incident. The next day the young Trooper looked me up and apologized and said after further reading he agreed I was right.

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