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Thread: It's Official: Phil Van Cleave is an Extremist!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    It's Official: Phil Van Cleave is an Extremist!

    So says Style Weekly, so it must be true:

    In the wake of Newtown, Virginia’s most extreme pro-gun lobbyist sees an opportunity.
    Philip Van Cleave can't help himself. At a time when many people involved in the pro-gun movement are embracing strategic silence, the outspoken president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League is quoted two days after the Newtown, Conn., shooting in the Washington Post. He compares firing a Bushmaster assault-style rifle like the one used in the school massacre to driving a Ferrari — they're both just fun, he says.

    Last week in response to an editorial in the Richmond Times-Dispatch outlining the gun debate Virginians can expect, Van Cleave is compelled to post a comment noting that his group would like to see the elimination of federal restrictions on machine guns, though it's currently a low priority.

    Van Cleave understands these statements can be, well, a bit off-putting to some. He's unapologetic. "Sometimes you just have to get out there and just put these things out there," Van Cleave says. "I'm not a big fan of political correctness."

    That's perhaps an understatement. The Virginia Citizens Defense League is unabashedly extreme in its views, but it's also been somewhat successful in efforts through the years, steadily chipping away at the state's gun laws.

    Van Cleave, a slight, bald, 60-year-old computer programmer who sports a gray mustache, says he almost never leaves the house without a gun. He says he feels helpless when he isn't carrying.

    It's that philosophy that has informed Van Cleave's years of activism, and it's exactly that kind of thinking that repulses the league's opponents on the left.

    "If you ever listened to them down at the General Assembly it would make your hair curl," says Andrew Goddard, president of the Virginia Center for Public Safety, which is pushing bills that would require background checks for all firearms sales. "They are right off the reservation as far as logic and common sense are concerned."

    How much sway they have with Republicans in the General Assembly is a matter of debate.

    "They certainly seem to carry a lot of weight with members on the other side of the aisle," says state Sen. A. Donald McEachin, a Henrico Democrat. "I'm not surprised because the Republican Party for years has sort of embraced the extreme right wing."

    But one Republican strategist says the group's tactics — such as organizing protests at libraries and stores where activists openly carry weapons — sometimes do more to embarrass lawmakers than convince them.

    A Republican legislative aide who works with the group's supporters and detractors put it this way: "They're good at the noise part, but at the end of the day, there's one gun rights group that really matters and a bunch of other gun rights groups that combined don't add up to the influence of that one. And that one is the NRA."

    Mr. Phil Van Cleave -- Lobbyist Extraordinaire

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    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." Barry Goldwater. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVNoClu0h9M


    I'll take Philip's extremism over the gun-grabbers' extremism any day. Phil Van Cleave for governor!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    It's Official: Phil Van Cleave is an Extremist!

    Cool are we VCDL members on watch lists now?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Style Weekly: The choice for litter box liners everywhere.

    Regarding concealed carry in restaurants ... "The law was a victory for the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights organization that makes the NRA look moderate."
    Eleanor Clift - - Politics Daily - July 5, 2010

    "[VCDL]
    campaigns for the right of gun owners to tote firepower in all kinds of places ... including outdoor festivals and college campuses."
    The Daily Press - Oct 20, 2007

    "
    Virginia Citizens Defense League . . . is on a mission to root out every nugget of gun control it can detect in Virginia. It has been behind campaigns to make sure concealed weapons are allowed in local government buildings, even civic centers, and fought to open up state and local parks to concealed weapons."
    The Daily Press - Nov 27, 2006

    "
    They're pretty effective, I have to give them credit."
    Jim Sollo, Chairman of Virginians Against Handgun
    Violence
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    It's Official: Phil Van Cleave is an Extremist!

    Congrats Philip!!!!!!! I'd also like to put it out there that VCDL is far more effective than the article made us out to be.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 01-02-2013 at 11:02 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Congrats Philip!!!!!!! I'd also like to put it out there that VCDL is far more effective than the article made us out to be.

    same here Philip. i just hope you get more extreme
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    One of the best!

    And thank God he is!

    Without him and his leadership we would be as bad off as Californicate!

    Carry on good Sir!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Regarding concealed carry in restaurants ... "The law was a victory for the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights organization that makes the NRA look moderate."
    Eleanor Clift - - Politics Daily - July 5, 2010

    "[VCDL]
    campaigns for the right of gun owners to tote firepower in all kinds of places ... including outdoor festivals and college campuses."
    The Daily Press - Oct 20, 2007

    "
    Virginia Citizens Defense League . . . is on a mission to root out every nugget of gun control it can detect in Virginia. It has been behind campaigns to make sure concealed weapons are allowed in local government buildings, even civic centers, and fought to open up state and local parks to concealed weapons."
    The Daily Press - Nov 27, 2006

    "
    They're pretty effective, I have to give them credit."
    Jim Sollo, Chairman of Virginians Against Handgun
    Violence
    For people who may stumble upon this thread from an outside reference, let me say a few things that will put your mind at ease... should you choose to think about it.

    VCDL members are not crazy, in spite of the sound bites you see here. I don't speak for Philip, or the VCDL, but I do have some common sense. Each of the places listed in the clips above are especially chosen to make the non-thinker GASP, why in the WORLD would someone want to bring a GUN into a PARK. My goodness, there will be CHILDREN there!

    That is exactly the point!

    Again, I am specifically NOT speaking for the VCDL, but in my mind, one of their goals, in the simplest of terms, is to lobby for law-abiding citizens to be able to LEGALLY bring a gun ANYWHERE and ANYPLACE a criminal can manage to take a gun themselves. Short of airport-type TSA security zones, yes, this is just about everywhere.

    Criminals bring guns to restaurants. Criminals bring guns to outdoor festivals and college campuses. Criminals bring guns into local government buildings, civic centers, state and local parks.

    Criminals carry guns. This is a fact that no law, at any level of government will EVER change. PERIOD. Nobody, especially not the VCDL, wants a criminal to USE their gun, especially not in any of the places listed above. If you haven't figured it out by now, when you make laws or policies to keep guns out of those places, ONLY the criminals will have them there, and that ends up being a VERY bad idea.

    So again, for those who landed here with no context... think about it. These media folks are playing your emotions. Don't buy it.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    I agree with and thanks TFred...With very few exceptions, all of the major gun violence has been where we are "not supposed to" have guns...
    OH, and yes, thank you Mr VanCleave...
    Like the old bumper stickers that "Charleton Heston is my president"....WELLLLLL.....LOL....
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Regarding concealed carry in restaurants ... "The law was a victory for the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights organization that makes the NRA look moderate."
    Eleanor Clift - - Politics Daily - July 5, 2010

    "[VCDL]
    campaigns for the right of gun owners to tote firepower in all kinds of places ... including outdoor festivals and college campuses."
    The Daily Press - Oct 20, 2007

    "
    Virginia Citizens Defense League . . . is on a mission to root out every nugget of gun control it can detect in Virginia. It has been behind campaigns to make sure concealed weapons are allowed in local government buildings, even civic centers, and fought to open up state and local parks to concealed weapons."
    The Daily Press - Nov 27, 2006

    "
    They're pretty effective, I have to give them credit."
    Jim Sollo, Chairman of Virginians Against Handgun
    Violence
    IMHO: The dates on these statements are getting a little dusty. Wouldn't it be a good idea to get some updated versions? Maybe something a little more recent?

    Rather than look harder, I think we should all try a little harder to be more active in each of our respective communities. Mr. Van Cleave seems to be providing an excellent example. This way, the anti-gun establishment can release some newer statements (parroted and tired as they may be) with fresher dates behind them. This way, we won't have to look harder to find current statements, and we can use more recent press releases.

    Just an idea.
    Last edited by Superlite27; 01-03-2013 at 08:10 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    I agree with and thanks TFred...With very few exceptions, all of the major gun violence has been where we are "not supposed to" have guns...
    OH, and yes, thank you Mr VanCleave...
    Like the old bumper stickers that "Charleton Heston is my president"....WELLLLLL.....LOL....


    Actually, no you can't have it if you're an anti - not even now! My friends have first dibs.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    http://www.styleweekly.com/richmond/...nt?oid=1803244

    Philip Van Cleave can't help himself. At a time when many people involved in the pro-gun movement are embracing strategic silence, the outspoken president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League is quoted two days after the Newtown, Conn., shooting in the Washington Post. He compares firing a Bushmaster assault-style rifle like the one used in the school massacre to driving a Ferrari — they're both just fun, he says.

    Last week in response to an editorial in the Richmond Times-Dispatch outlining the gun debate Virginians can expect, Van Cleave is compelled to post a comment noting that his group would like to see the elimination of federal restrictions on machine guns, though it's currently a low priority.

    Van Cleave understands these statements can be, well, a bit off-putting to some. He's unapologetic. "Sometimes you just have to get out there and just put these things out there," Van Cleave says. "I'm not a big fan of political correctness."

    That's perhaps an understatement. The Virginia Citizens Defense League is unabashedly extreme in its views, but it's also been somewhat successful in efforts through the years, steadily chipping away at the state's gun laws.

    Van Cleave, a slight, bald, 60-year-old computer programmer who sports a gray mustache, says he almost never leaves the house without a gun. He says he feels helpless when he isn't carrying.

    It's that philosophy that has informed Van Cleave's years of activism, and it's exactly that kind of thinking that repulses the league's opponents on the left.

    "If you ever listened to them down at the General Assembly it would make your hair curl," says Andrew Goddard, president of the Virginia Center for Public Safety, which is pushing bills that would require background checks for all firearms sales. "They are right off the reservation as far as logic and common sense are concerned."

    How much sway they have with Republicans in the General Assembly is a matter of debate.

    "They certainly seem to carry a lot of weight with members on the other side of the aisle," says state Sen. A. Donald McEachin, a Henrico Democrat. "I'm not surprised because the Republican Party for years has sort of embraced the extreme right wing."

    But one Republican strategist says the group's tactics — such as organizing protests at libraries and stores where activists openly carry weapons — sometimes do more to embarrass lawmakers than convince them.

    A Republican legislative aide who works with the group's supporters and detractors put it this way: "They're good at the noise part, but at the end of the day, there's one gun rights group that really matters and a bunch of other gun rights groups that combined don't add up to the influence of that one. And that one is the NRA."
    Must be all that money the NRA floods them with influencing their decision...
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    It is only as a matter of perspective that one might incline themselves to believe Phil Van Cleave or the rest of the VCDL is extremist in any way. Those who believe that he and the rest of us are extreme would make the claim that lives are precious, but would then turn and render those same lives without defense; they'd claim that we do not need to be armed and worried of criminal attack, while they yet carry their own arms or have body guards; they clamor for more and more laws in an attempt to solve problems, which are essentially problems of the heart and soul, yet they count it a badge of honor to allow themselves to be victimized where these laws fail time after time.

    PVC's and VCDLs general stand that innocent human life is precious, worthy of protection, thus we must be able to protect ourselves, is in no way an extreme stance, unless you do not accept that innocent human life is precious, or worthy of protection. People are pursuaded by reason and by force. When reason fails, force is your only option. In the face of failure of scheme after scheme to control criminals who have chosen to ignore reason, these people wish to remove our ability to apply force in the defense of precious human life. That is unacceptable, and in itself, extreme.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    It is only as a matter of perspective that one might incline themselves to believe Phil Van Cleave or the rest of the VCDL is extremist in any way. Those who believe that he and the rest of us are extreme would make the claim that lives are precious, but would then turn and render those same lives without defense; they'd claim that we do not need to be armed and worried of criminal attack, while they yet carry their own arms or have body guards; they clamor for more and more laws in an attempt to solve problems, which are essentially problems of the heart and soul, yet they count it a badge of honor to allow themselves to be victimized where these laws fail time after time.

    PVC's and VCDLs general stand that innocent human life is precious, worthy of protection, thus we must be able to protect ourselves, is in no way an extreme stance, unless you do not accept that innocent human life is precious, or worthy of protection. People are pursuaded by reason and by force. When reason fails, force is your only option. In the face of failure of scheme after scheme to control criminals who have chosen to ignore reason, these people wish to remove our ability to apply force in the defense of precious human life. That is unacceptable, and in itself, extreme.
    +1
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    It is about time that Phil and VCDL became extremists.

    As I have viewed the situation over the past 18 years, "we" have always been willing to have a rational discussion and work towards solutions that actually address some of the problems while avoiding any additional infringement on what has been left of our right to keep and bear arms. The other side has always been the extremist, taking the position that if not total, then incremental loss of that right is the only solution.

    Seems I recall some story having to do with pots and kettles.

    The line has been drawn - no longer in sand but in bedrock.

    stay safe.
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    Calling someone an "extremist" really just means the person is consistent. Van Cleave seems very consistent to me, at least on his views of gun politics, so the term fits. "Extremist" carries negative connotations, but it really shouldn't. I appreciate consistency (from anti-gunners even); it's conflicted wish-washy "moderates" that I really can't stand. One minute they say "I support the right to bear arms", but then it's "we need strict training requirements" or "assault weapons need to be restricted". Being "moderate" is nothing to be proud of, it's indicative of a deep confusion about what is right and wrong.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    It's Official: Phil Van Cleave is an Extremist!

    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTimeIsIt? View Post
    Calling someone an "extremist" really just means the person is consistent. Van Cleave seems very consistent to me, at least on his views of gun politics, so the term fits. "Extremist" carries negative connotations, but it really shouldn't. I appreciate consistency (from anti-gunners even); it's conflicted wish-washy "moderates" that I really can't stand. One minute they say "I support the right to bear arms", but then it's "we need strict training requirements" or "assault weapons need to be restricted". Being "moderate" is nothing to be proud of, it's indicative of a deep confusion about what is right and wrong.
    I never thought of it that way but this makes perfect sense.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Sounds right to me...,

    as far as I'm concerned, Phil is extremely knowledgable about what ever he's talking about, extremely cordial when talking about it, extremely hard to debate (just ask Jack!), extremely patient (compared to myself and many others I know), and most of all, extremely LOGICAL. I could go on and on, but I'm really just preaching to the choir, eh? Phil is my President!!!

    sidestreet

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    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Philip is many things, most good, but he's hardly an extremest. In fact...he's a little too reserved IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post


    Actually, no you can't have it if you're an anti - not even now! My friends have first dibs.
    Wow, that's not a good endorsement for the Glock, is it.

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