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Thread: Home Invader Shot Five Times in the Face/Neck and Lives

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    Home Invader Shot Five Times in the Face/Neck and Lives

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06...-con-intruder/

    ...The woman fired six bullets, five of which hit Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area, Chapman said. But Slater, who has arrests dating to 2008 and was released from jail in August, was still conscious...
    Talk about a lucky criminal to be shot so many times in the face/neck at point blank range and yet survive. Though I bet he'll think twice before robbing a house again...

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    Yet another reason the .38 is an inferior round. Of course shot placement is important, and if you're using quality +P hollowpoints you're probably good to go, but the performance of .38 is sad...even compared to 9mm.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shastadude17 View Post
    Yet another reason the .38 is an inferior round. ...
    The woman used a .38.
    The woman successfully stopped the attack.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Home Invader Shot Five Times in the Face/Neck and Lives

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The woman used a .38.
    The woman successfully stopped the attack.
    Bingo, this is my view as well! Who cares what caliber is used so long as the threat is stopped.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    She shot him 5 times in the face and neck, and missed once...she was empty...god forbid he was still aggressive and continued the attack, that would be a bad day. I'm just saying, there are far better cartridges out there in slimmer and lighter packages, IE Kel-Tec PF9 with 7+1 of 9mm...but this wasn't even a CC situation, it was a home defense so concealment isn't even an issue. Don't even get me started on better home defense weapons than a .38... that being said, the home defense go-to gun in a false picture frame in my house is a S&W .38 loaded with +P ammo, it's my absolute last ditch "I can't get to my Glock 19, Mossberg 500, Sig 9mm, 1911, Kel-Tec, Mosin Nagant, Frying Pan" gun.

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    Home Invader Shot Five Times in the Face/Neck and Lives

    Quote Originally Posted by shastadude17 View Post
    She shot him 5 times in the face and neck, and missed once...she was empty...god forbid he was still aggressive and continued the attack, that would be a bad day. I'm just saying, there are far better cartridges out there in slimmer and lighter packages, IE Kel-Tec PF9 with 7+1 of 9mm...but this wasn't even a CC situation, it was a home defense so concealment isn't even an issue. Don't even get me started on better home defense weapons than a .38... that being said, the home defense go-to gun in a false picture frame in my house is a S&W .38 loaded with +P ammo, it's my absolute last ditch "I can't get to my Glock 19, Mossberg 500, Sig 9mm, 1911, Kel-Tec, Mosin Nagant, Frying Pan" gun.
    Well she clearly didn't get directs hits. I pretty sure 5 rounds center-mass would have been a better idea and most likely far more effective.And of course there are better home defense guns....but we definitely don't want to get into that lol.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shastadude17 View Post
    She shot him 5 times in the face and neck, and missed once...she was empty...god forbid he was still aggressive and continued the attack, that would be a bad day. I'm just saying, there are far better cartridges out there in slimmer and lighter packages,...
    And if she had had a "far better" cartridge, ESPECIALLY in a "slimmer and lighter package," she may not have been nearly as good with it as she was.

    Stopping "power" is overrated against human targets, and only part of a total package.

    The fact is that she was armed, possessed the strength of will to use it, and did so effectively, even if just barely. Being that it was "just barely" actually gives some evidence that maybe this .38 was actually too much gun for her and her level of training at the time.
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-06-2013 at 03:14 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The woman used a .38. The woman successfully stopped the attack.
    This is Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Bingo, this is my view as well! Who cares what caliber is used so long as the threat is stopped.
    This is Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by shastadude17 View Post
    She shot him 5 times in the face and neck, and missed once...she was empty...god forbid he was still aggressive and continued the attack, that would be a bad day.
    Remember that in the heat of the moment they may have lost count. "You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?" Dirty Harry
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    this entire story is pretty good proof that a 10rd mag ban would be rediculous. imagine if it were 2 intruders. it took 6 shots to BARELY stop this 1 intruder.
    (yes I know it was a 6-shot revolver that was used)

    that being said, no, a .38 round is not inferior. a .38 round is far superior to a broom handle, grenade launcher, squirtgun, or anything else that could be grabbed and attempted to be used to thwart an intruder

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    And if she had had a "far better" cartridge, ESPECIALLY in a "slimmer and lighter package," she may not have been nearly as good with it as she was.

    Stopping "power" is overrated against human targets, and only part of a total package.

    The fact is that she was armed, possessed the strength of will to use it, and did so effectively, even if just barely. Being that it was "just barely" actually gives some evidence that maybe this .38 was actually too much gun for her and her level of training at the time.
    Qft.

    Someone on another forum claimed that the amount of shots fired were "excessive"; implying as though she should have only needed to fire two or three times. Armchair quarterbacking at its finest...

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    +1 to MAC702's comments.

    This is not to slight others. Its just that every time I had something to reply, MAC said it first.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Be advised, I'm not criticizing this woman by any means. It's a phenomenal outcome to a possibly fatal and tragic situation. I understand that often times people don't have an arsenal of their own, sometimes just a passed down family heirloom or hell even a Hi-Point. That's fine, but implying that the .38 Special even in +P loads out of a snub nose or even 4" barrel is a reliable man stopper is just silly...and in all fairness, really most handgun cartridges are unreliable man stoppers, thus inferior defensive weapons. I think we can all agree that the only reason we carry handguns is because of convenience

    My mom is looking into getting her FL CWP...and my dad keeps suggesting a snub nose .38...ultimately if that's what she's most comfortable with, that's what she should get, however I wouldn't want the people I love to be carrying a less capable weapon firing a less potent cartridge just because it's easy and I don't have to train them as much to be competent with it. If it wouldn't be my first, second, or third choice of a carry option, why would I ever suggest someone I care about carry it? Regardless of how you guys feel about James Yeager, I know a lot of people think he's a tool, he has a great and short video on this exact subject.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmulG3zKfiU
    Last edited by shastadude17; 01-06-2013 at 07:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shastadude17 View Post
    Be advised, I'm not criticizing this woman by any means. It's a phenomenal outcome to a possibly fatal and tragic situation. I understand that often times people don't have an arsenal of their own, sometimes just a passed down family heirloom or hell even a Hi-Point. That's fine, but implying that the .38 Special even in +P loads out of a snub nose or even 4" barrel is a reliable man stopper is just silly...and in all fairness, really most handgun cartridges are unreliable man stoppers, thus inferior defensive weapons. I think we can all agree that the only reason we carry handguns is because of convenience

    My mom is looking into getting her FL CWP...and my dad keeps suggesting a snub nose .38...ultimately if that's what she's most comfortable with, that's what she should get, however I wouldn't want the people I love to be carrying a less capable weapon firing a less potent cartridge just because it's easy and I don't have to train them as much to be competent with it. If it wouldn't be my first, second, or third choice of a carry option, why would I ever suggest someone I care about carry it? Regardless of how you guys feel about James Yeager, I know a lot of people think he's a tool, he has a great and short video on this exact subject.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmulG3zKfiU


    Bingo. But-
    1) 5 headshots, under duress, on an advancing enemy, while shielding your children. Hell, it seems half the NYPD cant even manage to pull THAT off, without hosing down an entire city block. Sounds to me like she was able to handle her choice of sidearm and caliber just fine.

    2) BUT, it also sort of tosses the "shot placement trumps all" philosophy right into the toilet. The round chosen HAS to be counted on to perform the task, or you may as well be throwing accurate rocks. This does give a good example of WHY some rounds/calibers are best left to punching holes in paper @ the range.(.38/9mm/.40 Smith and Useless) while others (.45/10mm/ .357Sig) remain viable, proven, COMBAT rounds.

    3) And, .38's in particular seem to be real iffy rounds. sort of 50/50 performers, at best. we have some cases where one shot has done the trick, and dropped the BGs on the spot, and other where it ended up like this.. but, we dont know what loads she used on this so... who knows..

    Either way, she did just fine, but Im willing to bet she'll be at the local gun shop soon, eyeballing some 1911s.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    And if she had had a "far better" cartridge, ESPECIALLY in a "slimmer and lighter package," she may not have been nearly as good with it as she was.

    Stopping "power" is overrated against human targets, and only part of a total package.

    The fact is that she was armed, possessed the strength of will to use it, and did so effectively, even if just barely. Being that it was "just barely" actually gives some evidence that maybe this .38 was actually too much gun for her and her level of training at the time.
    I would have started with "The fact is that she was armed," and stopped right after "possessed the strength of will to use it," but this is just me.

    I commend her on protecting her kids and herself to the best of her ability.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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