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Thread: Should I renew my NRA memebership?

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    I have about six months left on my two year NRA membership and I need some help knowing if should renew my membership or not. I use to be a dedicated true NRA fan but now I am not so sure. Over the past few years I have experienced increasing arrogance and attitude from the NRA, but I am not sure if it is the NRA or just the local NRA people in my area. I am also concerned with the NRA controlling the market. It seems like more and more everyone has to go through the NRA for classes and certifications. Most recently I had to pass a NRA safety class in order to get my Michigan state CPL. Regardless of the NRA's best intentions it is difficult for me to trust any organization that try's to control everything. I am tired of people looking down their noses at me because I haven't taken this NRA class or attended that NRA seminar. My father taught me how to shoot when I was 6 and he taught me respect for guns. If I ever have a child they will never take any NRA class unless they ask me to take them. My safety and the safety of my child is not the NRA's problem it is mine. And if I ever have a child it is not the NRA's job to teach my children how to shoot, gun safety or respect for firearms that is my job as the child father. Over the last few years I have grown increasingly causes of the NRA and the attitude associated with them. I could use some help, what are other people out there thinking
    Last edited by fire suppressor; 01-06-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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    Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    I chose not to renew my NRA membership years ago. They do not work for the RKBA.

    They work to maintain a structure that they erroneously believe protects our ability to have firearms. What they do is work to maintain a structure in which the government dictates how, when, and where we may carry. Unfortunately, that means that most Americans now believe that the government may tell us how, when, and where we may NOT carry, making usurpations like the impending "assault weapon ban" possible.


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    I was once a member of the NRA, but haven't renewed my membership in years. Take their position on Romney for instance. The man pushed for, and signed, an AWB in Mass. during his time as governor, and yet the NRA attempted to whitewash that for the election. They have compromised far too much. That being said, I am thinking about renewing my own membership, because they are the most effective political lobby of all time, IF you can get them to take a stand. While I haven't said this for quite some time, my opinion would be to renew, because we may be needing their clout soon.

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    I let my membership lapse because it seemed the NRA had become more interested in perpetuating itself than gun rights.

    While a member I received request after request for more money accompanied by breathless hyperbole vilifying this or that anti-gunner or anti-gun initiative. Yet, there didn't seem much effort to roll back existing gun laws. Hold the line and compromise seemed more the history. For sure there was no national campaign to roll back the 1986 closure fo the machine gun registry, no campaign to repeal swaths of the 1969 GCA or the National Firearms Act from the '30s. No concerted campaign to beat the ATF into being decent.

    If you have money for a membership, you might check out 2nd Amendment Foundation, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, or Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. Numbers count. If NRA membership is down by one, but CCRKBA is up by one, the total memberships claimed by the organizations is still the same.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    alas, their training, rightly or wrong, is the gold standard states and law enforcement use to quantify their firearms statutes. very similar to safey courses taught by the red cross. used to be a requirement you could not continue with "parametic" training unless you completed the arc's adv fa course...40+ hours worth. at the time everyone had a bad taste in their mouths about the antics of arc reps from the "wars". now every community college teaches and certifies parametics

    therefore, whatever the nra does politically that winds your crank the wrong way, understand their training activities are still and imho should be, held in high esteem for content consistency across the US and around the world.

    wabbit

    ps as in every mass training group there are idiots who fail to follow the established guidelines for training their students and get certified knowning they arent going to follow the instructor manuals. however they are soon recognized within their respective communities and word of mouth causes student to not get their training from them
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    alas, their training, rightly or wrong, is the gold standard states and law enforcement use to quantify their firearms statutes. very similar to safey courses taught by the red cross. used to be a requirement you could not continue with "parametic" training unless you completed the arc's adv fa course...40+ hours worth. at the time everyone had a bad taste in their mouths about the antics of arc reps from the "wars". now every community college teaches and certifies parametics

    therefore, whatever the nra does politically that winds your crank the wrong way, understand their training activities are still and imho should be, held in high esteem for content consistency across the US and around the world.

    wabbit

    ps as in every mass training group there are idiots who fail to follow the established guidelines for training their students and get certified knowning they arent going to follow the instructor manuals. however they are soon recognized within their respective communities and word of mouth causes student to not get their training from them
    No argument there.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Re: Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I chose not to renew my NRA membership years ago. They do not work for the RKBA.

    They work to maintain a structure that they erroneously believe protects our ability to have firearms. What they do is work to maintain a structure in which the government dictates how, when, and where we may carry. Unfortunately, that means that most Americans now believe that the government may tell us how, when, and where we may NOT carry, making usurpations like the impending "assault weapon ban" possible.


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    I can't say I am familiar with the RKBA
    Last edited by fire suppressor; 01-06-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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    Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.


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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Re: Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    It sounds like what I am hearing is people supporting me not to renew my membership. While this would have surprised me a few years ago it dose not today. While I have not made my mind up 100% I am leaning towards letting it laps. The only thing I may want to keep it for is for the NRA's self defense insurance but I do not yet know enough about the insurance to make a decision based purely on that. The NRA may be the biggest name out there they are no longer the only name or the necessarily the most influential. There are plenty of other organizations out there who I could be a better use of money
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    NRA has become too arrogant. The local reps are argumentative and poorly represent the gun community. Wayne L is a blowhard who doesn't speak for me.

    I would join again if they would hold a strong line on gun rights, promote open and concealed carry, and generally represent gun owners as good Americans, without trying to make enemies out of those who disagree and call them un-American.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Re: Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    NRA has become too arrogant. The local reps are argumentative and poorly represent the gun community. Wayne L is a blowhard who doesn't speak for me.

    I would join again if they would hold a strong line on gun rights, promote open and concealed carry, and generally represent gun owners as good Americans, without trying to make enemies out of those who disagree and call them un-American.
    +1 well said!

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    It sounds like what I am hearing is people supporting me not to renew my membership. While this would have surprised me a few years ago it dose not today. While I have not made my mind up 100% I am leaning towards letting it laps. The only thing I may want to keep it for is for the NRA's self defense insurance but I do not yet know enough about the insurance to make a decision based purely on that. The NRA may be the biggest name out there they are no longer the only name or the necessarily the most influential. There are plenty of other organizations out there who I could be a better use of money
    I though that part of the forum rules was to not bash the NRA.

    I personally don't care for the NRA and I have thought about joining more than once, I just could not bring my self to do it after doing a bit of research on how the NRA helped to hurt our rights.

    Realistically though, the NRA is the only BIG name, at this time, in the gun rights world. There are other groups that you should consider even if you choose to keep your membership with the NRA. Jews for the preservation of firearm ownership, is one. The Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America, your local gun club (maybe), I am sure there are more. Find one that works best for you.

    I personally favor, Gun Owners of America.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    To be honest, there's only TWO gun rights organizations I support

    the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation.

    Regardless of my complaints with the NRA, they ARE the number one gun rights group like it or not, they have worked vehemently to HOLD THE LINE since the mid-1980s. if it wasn't for the NRA I doubt FOPA would've been passed and we'd have England-like gun laws. The NRA has political connections and knows how to win elections and install the correct representatives. The NRA does this by adopting the "mainstream" "reasonable" approach, I'm sorry, but how effective do you think the NRA would be if they went around talking about "watering the tree of liberty" or "the second american civil war" and "gun control people are like hitler" rightly or wrongly those arguments make you look like a nut and advance the cause of gun control. Wayne Lapierre may be a shrewd fellow, but he's a shrewd fellow that makes things happen and gets results. he earns every single greenback of his million dollar a year salary from the NRA, and if Wayne wasn't here I would hate to think of how our gun rights would look today. the last "great" NRA president was Heston, since Heston's been gone Wayne is the real guy calling the shots.

    Second Amendment Foundation

    Is winning our rights back in the courts, they've done this by carefully screening their legal challenges and choosing reasonable battles, and hiring the best legal minds that money can hire to argue their cases. Alan Gottlieb, while he looks pathetic on television interviews, is a business genius who can get things done just like Wayne LaPierre. McDonald v. Chicago, Madigan v. Moore, Sheridan, all those cases were argued by SAF. SAF has some of the best minds on the gun rights side on their board, Mas Ayoob, Kirby Wilbur etc sit on the board.

    These organizations are who I donate to, the other groups I have on beef with, GOA, JFPO, you know I can respect their members, but it's not bashing to say these are the lightweights in the RBKA fight. I respect them, but they don't have any real clout, any connections, and virtually no effective lobbying efforts. but join if you want.

    The one group I will bash, the National Assoc for Gun Rights, this Dudley Brown guy is obviously running a fly-by-night outfit. his emailers all have urgent threats waiting to occur any moment, you must donate to them immediately, the feds will put Dudley brown in jail if you don't donate to him, you need to donate to see his list of political endorsements, the FBI is investigating him... yada yada yada and that group has no victories of any sort to claim for the money it collects. Steer clear of this group.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Do not get advice on how to spend your money from nameless/faceless posters to a gun rights forum.

    Please ask yourself one simple question; "What has the NRA done for me in my state."

    Has the NRA through their efforts expanded.....er, reinstated your RKBA in your state. Have they worked to maintain what little of your RKBA remains in your state.

    Where is the NRA focusing there efforts? Promoting OC in Florida, but not in Missouri, not in South Carolina. Go figure.

    It is your money.
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    Re: Should I renew my NRA memebership?

    I have never herd of the Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership. I am going to have to look into them just out of curiosity. I don't want this to come across sounding wrong but in all honesty I did not know Jews as a culture had any interest in gun rights
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Renew your membership

    Although far from perfect, as many have said here, the NRA is the biggest dog in the fight. As I am a Life Member, renewal for me is moot. I am also a member of the Second Amendment Foundation and Gun Owners of America. Wayne LaPierre did not do a good job on his recent Meet The Press interview. His answers were more in keeping with the way a politician responds. And I am surprised that he didn't tell David Gregory that the 30 round magazine used on the show was illegal in DC where the show was taped. And now we are all waiting to see if Cathy Lanier holds him accountable as she has with the veterans who had guns and/or loose ammo in their possession.
    And as also mentioned, NRA training/certifications are the "gold standard" for firearms. The gov't recognizes it as an equivalent substitute for military marksmanship instructors.
    Go ahead and renew now, in light of what is happening, and see what happens.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post

    These organizations are who I donate to, the other groups I have on beef with, GOA, JFPO, you know I can respect their members, but it's not bashing to say these are the lightweights in the RBKA fight. I respect them, but they don't have any real clout, any connections, and virtually no effective lobbying efforts. but join if you want.

    Why doesn't it surprise me though the basher of minor political parties would also not support "minor" gun rights organizations?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I have never herd of the Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership. I am going to have to look into them just out of curiosity. I don't want this to come across sounding wrong but in all honesty I did not know Jews as a culture had any interest in gun rights
    http://jpfo.org/

    They have run into that with their own kind.

    But look at Israel, they have some really cool guns.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Why doesn't it surprise me though the basher of minor political parties would also not support "minor" gun rights organizations?
    Well you know, if GOA had a strong membership plan, and a legislative agenda they intended to push, and could convince me they had a realistic shot at pulling it off, then maybe I would donate to them. But a dollar donated to a group that has no ability to do anything for me is a dollar wasted.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well you know, if GOA had a strong membership plan, and a legislative agenda they intended to push, and could convince me they had a realistic shot at pulling it off, then maybe I would donate to them. But a dollar donated to a group that has no ability to do anything for me is a dollar wasted.
    So you continue to keep them small not on morals and ideals but because they are small?

    And why we have two major parties in the country bringing us toward tyranny they want to be part of something that can affect change, even if that means sacrificing and compromising liberty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So you continue to keep them small not on morals and ideals but because they are small?
    No single drop of water feels responsible for the flood, as the saying goes.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    You can be successful without being "reasonable". Look at AZCDL. Unfortunately, they're state, not national.

    I've been considering writing that check to the NRA myself, even though I consider them compromised.


    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    To be honest, there's only TWO gun rights organizations I support

    the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation.

    Regardless of my complaints with the NRA, they ARE the number one gun rights group like it or not, they have worked vehemently to HOLD THE LINE since the mid-1980s. if it wasn't for the NRA I doubt FOPA would've been passed and we'd have England-like gun laws. The NRA has political connections and knows how to win elections and install the correct representatives. The NRA does this by adopting the "mainstream" "reasonable" approach, I'm sorry, but how effective do you think the NRA would be if they went around talking about "watering the tree of liberty" or "the second american civil war" and "gun control people are like hitler" rightly or wrongly those arguments make you look like a nut and advance the cause of gun control. Wayne Lapierre may be a shrewd fellow, but he's a shrewd fellow that makes things happen and gets results. he earns every single greenback of his million dollar a year salary from the NRA, and if Wayne wasn't here I would hate to think of how our gun rights would look today. the last "great" NRA president was Heston, since Heston's been gone Wayne is the real guy calling the shots.

    Second Amendment Foundation

    Is winning our rights back in the courts, they've done this by carefully screening their legal challenges and choosing reasonable battles, and hiring the best legal minds that money can hire to argue their cases. Alan Gottlieb, while he looks pathetic on television interviews, is a business genius who can get things done just like Wayne LaPierre. McDonald v. Chicago, Madigan v. Moore, Sheridan, all those cases were argued by SAF. SAF has some of the best minds on the gun rights side on their board, Mas Ayoob, Kirby Wilbur etc sit on the board.

    These organizations are who I donate to, the other groups I have on beef with, GOA, JFPO, you know I can respect their members, but it's not bashing to say these are the lightweights in the RBKA fight. I respect them, but they don't have any real clout, any connections, and virtually no effective lobbying efforts. but join if you want.

    The one group I will bash, the National Assoc for Gun Rights, this Dudley Brown guy is obviously running a fly-by-night outfit. his emailers all have urgent threats waiting to occur any moment, you must donate to them immediately, the feds will put Dudley brown in jail if you don't donate to him, you need to donate to see his list of political endorsements, the FBI is investigating him... yada yada yada and that group has no victories of any sort to claim for the money it collects. Steer clear of this group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    http://jpfo.org/

    They have run into that with their own kind.

    But look at Israel, they have some really cool guns.
    It's very tough for a private citizen to possess firearms in Israel.
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-a-way-of-life

  24. #24
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So you continue to keep them small not on morals and ideals but because they are small?

    And why we have two major parties in the country bringing us toward tyranny they want to be part of something that can affect change, even if that means sacrificing and compromising liberty.
    Tell you what, next presidential election, I'll vote for a 3rd party candidate IF

    the third party candidate shows up on news media, makes public appearances, lobbies for inclusion into debates, has volunteer drives, and actually spends their donated money for advertising.

    See SVG, we're like spectators at a horse race, both of us are betting our whole life savings on horses, lets say there's 5 horses, they've run 20 races, the same lineup, and in each race, one of two horses has been the winner and the second place. not one of the other 3 horses has ever even placed in the past 20 races. so we have two healthy strong horses, running a tight race, and one weakly little horse way behind, and two of them are just sitting on the edge of the track munching gass and not doing anything. I've bet my savings on one of the placing horses, and you're telling me that I AM the crazy one while you're money is on the horse that's not even racing, it's just grazing.

    tell me how this makes any sense?

    if you want me to bet on your horse, you should start training him for the very real idea of winning a race, not just sitting swigging beer and griping about the winning horses. make your horse a winner instead of claiming mine is a loser.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Tell you what, next presidential election, I'll vote for a 3rd party candidate IF

    the third party candidate shows up on news media, makes public appearances, lobbies for inclusion into debates, has volunteer drives, and actually spends their donated money for advertising.

    See SVG, we're like spectators at a horse race, both of us are betting our whole life savings on horses, lets say there's 5 horses, they've run 20 races, the same lineup, and in each race, one of two horses has been the winner and the second place. not one of the other 3 horses has ever even placed in the past 20 races. so we have two healthy strong horses, running a tight race, and one weakly little horse way behind, and two of them are just sitting on the edge of the track munching gass and not doing anything. I've bet my savings on one of the placing horses, and you're telling me that I AM the crazy one while you're money is on the horse that's not even racing, it's just grazing.

    tell me how this makes any sense?

    if you want me to bet on your horse, you should start training him for the very real idea of winning a race, not just sitting swigging beer and griping about the winning horses. make your horse a winner instead of claiming mine is a loser.
    Tragically flawed analogy. I don't vote for "winners" I vote if I choose to vote on principles and morals.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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