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Thread: Had an officer field strip my weapon....

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    Question Had an officer field strip my weapon....

    Hi all very new here but after researching a lot of info on this site I had a incident that I'm not sure if it was legal or not. Reading other post on here I will try not to give that much info. Out celebrating a birthday with friends, there's an altercation (birthday boy had 1 too many) and we are asked to leave. Before we get to our vehicle we are intercepted by the local PD long story short I allowed police to search the vehicle. My firearm is in the trunk in its case, they field strip it and place it throughout the vehicle and tell us to leave. I originally thought it was legal but after researching here I'm thinking it might have been a violation of my rights.....

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    It wasn't the "right" thing to do but you suffered no damages aside from the time needed to reassemble your property. There are no damages to recover and since no actual law was broken by the officers there's no way they're going to be reprimanded.

    The only take-away from this is - stand up for your rights and don't acquiesce to any requests from the police to search your vehicle. You never know what a friend may have dropped in negligence or panic at being stopped by the police.

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    Not even to your car when "intercepted"? Why on earth then would there be any reason to be concerned or ask for a consensual search? Absolute fishing expedition.

    No way I would consent to a search for such a contact. Absolutely unnecessary and irrelevant to the matter at hand.

    I have had good contacts and bad contacts with LEO. I prefer not to roll the dice and hope for a good one. I am guessing they left prior to your collecting gun parts?

    So after the thug in the alley sees what happened and watches them drive away, then steps from the shadows to rob you, you think they will step up and take responsibility for taking away your chance to defend yourself?

    What agency was this? Probably not much would come of it, but I would still make a complaint. Consent to search is not consent to seize and disassemble. They would have a pretty difficult time making a case for "Officer Safety" on a gun not in your immediate physical possession, cased, and in a locked trunk.

    Every time "cooperative" folks like you consent to such BS it emboldens them to further trample the rights of law abiding folks.
    Last edited by 911Boss; 01-07-2013 at 02:38 AM.

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    +1 on the statements provided above by 911Boss!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member Sharpender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    So after the thug in the alley sees what happened and watches them drive away, then steps from the shadows to rob you, you think they will step up and take responsibility for taking away your chance to defend yourself?
    Exactly what I was thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by studious View Post
    Hi all very new here but after researching a lot of info on this site I had a incident that I'm not sure if it was legal or not. Reading other post on here I will try not to give that much info. Out celebrating a birthday with friends, there's an altercation (birthday boy had 1 too many) and we are asked to leave. Before we get to our vehicle we are intercepted by the local PD long story short I allowed police to search the vehicle. My firearm is in the trunk in its case, they field strip it and place it throughout the vehicle and tell us to leave. I originally thought it was legal but after researching here I'm thinking it might have been a violation of my rights.....
    Unfortunately, no.

    The Fourth Amendment doesn't protect against all searches. It only protects against unreasonable searches. And, courts have ruled that when a citizen consents to a search, it automatically becomes a reasonable search. So, based just on what you report here, the search did not violate your rights.

    However, there are few factors involved in the consent. For example, if there was intimidation or coercion involved in obtaining the consent, then the consent would not be valid. Also, if there was an unlawful seizure of your person, the consent to search could be invalidated. These are areas of law of which I am less familiar. Plus, we might need more information posted than is smart for you to post. But, if you feel violated, maybe its because you were. You'll have to look into it yourself at the link below.

    You can learn more about consent converting an unreasonable search into a reasonable search in the FlexYourRights videos linked below. And, there are a couple court cases that discuss consent at the same link.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ources-Here!!&
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Did you get all the parts back, were any of the parts damaged, did he scratch anything? Those are all things that could have happened.

    Next time do not consent to a search, the Cop is only asking because he does not have a legal reason to search so he needs you permission and you voluntarily gave it to him. I knew a preacher way back when I lived in Kalifornia that allowed a Cop to search his car because he had noting to hid and the Cop came up with a baggy that had 100 cross tops from the back seat. The preacher went to jail, later the pills were tested and no drugs were found. It took about 9 months to work its way through the court system, his reputation was damaged. He never did figure out whether the Cops planted the fake drugs or the fake drugs dropped out of someone's pocket that had rode in his car.

    Another thing to keep in mind is if you know you are going to have contact with a Cop do not walk toward your car or simply walk on by the car ignoring it as you pass.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    You saw the dog poop and stepped in it anyway. This time nothing was there to stick (must have been my passengers pipe). They went looking for a reason to arrest you and did not find anything of merit. Lesson learned. No fault to you mate, they got over on you. Next time you will be Armed with the knowledge that you do not have to put up with the cr@p. Cool.

    And Welcome to OCDO.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 01-07-2013 at 02:03 PM. Reason: forgot to say"Welcome to OCDO"
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studious View Post
    Hi all very new here but after researching a lot of info on this site I had a incident that I'm not sure if it was legal or not. Reading other post on here I will try not to give that much info. Out celebrating a birthday with friends, there's an altercation (birthday boy had 1 too many) and we are asked to leave. Before we get to our vehicle we are intercepted by the local PD long story short I allowed police to search the vehicle. My firearm is in the trunk in its case, they field strip it and place it throughout the vehicle and tell us to leave. I originally thought it was legal but after researching here I'm thinking it might have been a violation of my rights.....
    Oh, never consent to a search of your vehicle...make them get a search warrent...If they think they can.

    I'm not sure they did not violate any laws when they stripped your pistol, even though I cannot think of a specific law or court ruling...I think that is taking their "safety" a bit far.

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    quick followup

    After reading all the responses, yeah they got over on me this time. I'm just gonna count my blessings and move on.

    So we were at a bar in Bellevue celebrating my friends birthday. He had a few too many and tried to renter the bar to retrieve his debit card that he left, the doorman wouldn't let him in so once he grabbed the handle security immediately rushed him. They handed him over to me because they realized he was inebriated and no threat, as we are walking in the parking garage to his vehicle (I was the DD for the evening) BPD told us to have a seat, they were already in the area as the bar was closing for the night. They check our ID and I explain to them the entire situation, once the realize I'm the sober one they are no longer interested in me they pull my inebriated friend to the side and try to intimidate him (3 officers asking him questions at once). I keep an eye on the situation because I can tell my friend is getting aggravated and confused on whats going on. This is all happening as people are walking to their vehicles from the establishment. I plead with the officers that it's my friends birthday and he had a few and needs to get home, they decide to stall the situation even longer. They ask him where we are parked, what kind of car is it, and is there a gun in the vehicle he answers yes. They then ask if they can search the vehicle he tells them i have the keys and they take them from me. After the quick search they comeback and tell me that they took the gun apart and put it throughout the vehicle and if we don't want to go to jail we better leave immediately. I'm just glad that they said we were free to go, as we get into the vehicle my friend realizes he wasn't given his wallet, ID and cell phone back. I tell him to stay put and I'll ask them if they have it. As I get back out I noticed the 3 officers that tried to intimidate him where hiding behind the concrete columns with their pistols drawn (as if i could find/reassemble my firearm within 30 seconds) as I ask the officers if they have his stuff they yell no and tell me to leave as I get back in vehicle one of the officers runs up and gives me his property. When we got home I found that they took the bullets of out the magazines (2), hid 1 magazine under the passenger seat, put the barrel in the armrest and left the rest in the case in the trunk. After thoroughly disabling my firearm why did they feel it was necessary to have their pistols drawn? Just to create a show for the patrons leaving is my guess.

    As I said above I'm just glad that I was able to go home to my family and I haven't been to Bellevue since then. (I know that's what they wanted)

    I also remember while they were harassing my friend that I asked them "Aren't you suppose to protect and serve us, instead of harass intimidate, and aggravate us to try and cause a situation just to justify shooting us?" No response!

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    They then ask if they can search the vehicle he tells them i have the keys and they take them from me.

    Was the car his or yours? How did they take the keys, did they ask you for them and you gave them to the Cops or did they search you and take them our of your pocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    They then ask if they can search the vehicle he tells them i have the keys and they take them from me.

    Was the car his or yours? How did they take the keys, did they ask you for them and you gave them to the Cops or did they search you and take them our of your pocket.
    His car

    They were in my hand, they reached and I handed

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Why are you hanging out at bars till closing time in Bellevue? http://www.king5.com/news/local/Off-...170709156.html
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by studious View Post
    His car

    They were in my hand, they reached and I handed
    Learn to just say no.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Redmond PD likes to strip firearms and unload mags too.

    I've had that happen twice in Redmond. 1 time it was retaliation for proving the court clerks, the judge, and the officer on duty at the time were all morons.

    Second time it was on my way home from work at 2am and it was a harassment stop pure and simple. I now know I do not have to answer the question of, "do you have any guns in the vehicle?"
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum, it gets easier to say no and stand up for your rights the more you do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Why are you hanging out at bars till closing time in Bellevue? http://www.king5.com/news/local/Off-...170709156.html
    Why question someones lawful behavior? Because others are not lawful?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Why are you hanging out at bars till closing time in Bellevue?
    I am surprised that you asked this.
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Why question someones lawful behavior? Because others are not lawful?
    I am not surprised you said this.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Did you follow the link? I didn't question the lawful actions of the OP, rather made him aware of the unlawful/unprofessional actions of the BPD.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    I remember getting pulled pulled over run running a stop light after a long day at work. I had my wallet sitting under my gun and didn't realize it. I told them I was armed but my gun is on top of my wallet in my center console. He just asked me to hand it to him, dropped the mag and unloaded the chamber and handed the ammo back to me. Then after the stop, he gave me my gun back and sent me on my way.

    Never consent to a search, especially if you have "nothing to hide". I am not going through that inconvenience over a whim. If the officer had a legal cause to search then he would not ask permission. So to me a search is them saying "I think you are a criminal but I can't prove it, let me prove it."

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Did you follow the link? I didn't question the lawful actions of the OP, rather made him aware of the unlawful/unprofessional actions of the BPD.
    I had followed the link, hence my question. Thank you for the clarification, it had appeared you were questioning the OP's actions.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studious View Post
    Hi all very new here but after researching a lot of info on this site I had a incident that I'm not sure if it was legal or not. Reading other post on here I will try not to give that much info. Out celebrating a birthday with friends, there's an altercation (birthday boy had 1 too many) and we are asked to leave. Before we get to our vehicle we are intercepted by the local PD long story short I allowed police to search the vehicle. My firearm is in the trunk in its case, they field strip it and place it throughout the vehicle and tell us to leave. I originally thought it was legal but after researching here I'm thinking it might have been a violation of my rights.....
    You gave them permission, so how did they violate your rights?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You gave them permission, so how did they violate your rights?
    I think he realizes that now. I personally don't feel it makes him any less of a victim. Live and learn.

    Incidents like this and because of past ignorance with "authority" is why I have my paraphrased second tag line.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    They then ask if they can search the vehicle he tells them i have the keys and they take them from me.

    Was the car his or yours? How did they take the keys, did they ask you for them and you gave them to the Cops or did they search you and take them our of your pocket.
    Questions seconded.

    There is case law on whether a person can give consent. For example, a guest who is not the owner might not be able to give consent to search a home.

    The cops know this stuff.

    I got five dollars that says the cops knew you were the designated driver and deliberately asked him for consent since they knew he was drunk. Hell, just him being drunk may have diminished his capacity to knowingly waive a protected right even if he was the actual owner of the car.

    I'd follow this line of legality by researching case law in your state.

    And, if the law on consent was violated, I'd be sending a sharply worded written complaint that lambasted the cops at a minimum. Jeez, the hyper-dramatic guns-drawn scenario where your weapon was disassembled is more than enough to show those cops be **ssies. Add sneakily trying to obtain consent for a search from a drunk, and this situation is too ripe for a riotous complaint guaranteed to make some faces red.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Redmond PD likes to strip firearms and unload mags too.

    I've had that happen twice in Redmond. 1 time it was retaliation for proving the court clerks, the judge, and the officer on duty at the time were all morons.

    Second time it was on my way home from work at 2am and it was a harassment stop pure and simple. I now know I do not have to answer the question of, "do you have any guns in the vehicle?"
    The answer to any question like "do you have any guns?" is either (best) 1: Stay silent. or if you just absolutely cannot stay silent..."I have nothing illegal" and when they say, "can I(we) look around?", the answer is No, or "only if you have a search warrent".

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    The answer to any question like "do you have any guns?" is either (best) 1: Stay silent. or if you just absolutely cannot stay silent..."I have nothing illegal" and when they say, "can I(we) look around?", the answer is No, or "only if you have a search warrent".
    "I have nothing illegal," is a pretty decent reply. Because it opens the door to cheesy cop tactics like, "Then you won't mind if I have a look, will you", I prefer a polite exercise of the 5A right against incrimination: "Officer, no offense. I know you're just doing your job, but I would not consent to answer any questions without an attorney." Just real polite, almost off-hand tone, for all the world like your declining an offered drink of water from a friend.

    Also, recall Prof. Duane's advice in the video: even the truthful statements of an innocent person can be used against him if the police aquire evidence that contradicts the truthful statement. So, although probably a little remote, if you tell the cop you have nothing illegal, and he somehow wrangles consent out of you after all, and then does happen to find something like a pill that fell out of somebody else's pocket, or the classic marijuana scrapings on the floorboard carpet, now he can paint you as a liar, too.

    So, I am thinking the safest is to just politely decline to answer any questions. Right from the beginning, so you don't have to stop midway through as his questions get more and more intrusive.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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