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Thread: Was told to leave Wal-Mart today.

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    Was told to leave Wal-Mart today.

    So I was in wal-mart in Ft. Payne, AL today getting a few small items when I was approached by some guy in normal clothes. He flashed what looked like a wal-mart name tag and asked me what I was doing with a gun. When I told him I was legally allowed to carry a pistol in Alabama he started getting mad and saying that I was wrong and I need to get out of his store. He asked if I had a pistol permit and said that on the back it says "This card entitles you to carry a concealed firearm." To which I replied, yes, but it doesn't take away the freedom to carry it openly. He told me to leave so I went to pay for the items I had, all the while he is yelling into his walkie talkie about me running through the store with a gun. Then I assume he called the cops because he started to describe what I was wearing and said I refused to conceal my weapon, but the cops didn't arrive in the time it took me to leave. What should I do? Should I send corporate an email? I don't have any names, or even what position he held due to him quickly flashing the nametag.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Was told to leave Wal-Mart today.

    Walmart's policy is simple. follow state law. Associates including managers do not have the discretion to modify or ignore policy. Call the store manager first, name should be on the receipt. If he doesn't resolve the situation, obtain the name and number of the Market Manager...his /her name should be posted at the front of the store or in the back by the Site 2 Store area. Last but not least, if that doesn't work call the corporate number and explain that you have already talked to the store and market managers. This will get your call elevated.

    Don't call the corporate number first because all they do is send it to the store to resolve. The store manager should be able to resolve the situation as they don't want anything going to their boss the market manager.

    I worked as a manager at Walmart for five years. This is the best process to follow to resolve your issue.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    So I was in wal-mart in Ft. Payne, AL today getting a few small items when I was approached by some guy in normal clothes. He flashed what looked like a wal-mart name tag and asked me what I was doing with a gun. When I told him I was legally allowed to carry a pistol in Alabama he started getting mad and saying that I was wrong and I need to get out of his store. He asked if I had a pistol permit and said that on the back it says "This card entitles you to carry a concealed firearm." To which I replied, yes, but it doesn't take away the freedom to carry it openly. He told me to leave so I went to pay for the items I had, all the while he is yelling into his walkie talkie about me running through the store with a gun. Then I assume he called the cops because he started to describe what I was wearing and said I refused to conceal my weapon, but the cops didn't arrive in the time it took me to leave. What should I do? Should I send corporate an email? I don't have any names, or even what position he held due to him quickly flashing the nametag.
    First of all, you should never have completed your purchase. Set your items on the floor where you stood, and proceed directly to the exit. Two reasons: (1) You should not support business who will not let you exercise your right to carry. (2) If you fail to leave when asked to do so, you risk an arrest for trespass. You may beat that rap, but you won't beat the ride.

    Second, call the store from you car in the parking lot and ask for the store manager, not the manager-on-duty, but the store manager. If you cannot get the store manager, or the store manager does not immediately correct the situation, ask for the number of the district or area manager. Eventually, you will get a manager who is not ignorant of Wal-Mart's policy on carry: They follow State law and allow OC in their stores in Alabama. Every time this has come up, the offender has been roundly chewed on by higher ups. Some have disappeared following the incident. Please make this happen.

    Wal-Mart absolutely supports your RKBA. Please, for the sake of all of us carriers, don't let a petty functionary get away with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    First of all, you should never have completed your purchase. Set your items on the floor where you stood, and proceed directly to the exit. Two reasons: (1) You should not support business who will not let you exercise your right to carry. (2) If you fail to leave when asked to do so, you risk an arrest for trespass. You may beat that rap, but you won't beat the ride.

    Second, call the store from you car in the parking lot and ask for the store manager, not the manager-on-duty, but the store manager. If you cannot get the store manager, or the store manager does not immediately correct the situation, ask for the number of the district or area manager. Eventually, you will get a manager who is not ignorant of Wal-Mart's policy on carry: They follow State law and allow OC in their stores in Alabama. Every time this has come up, the offender has been roundly chewed on by higher ups. Some have disappeared following the incident. Please make this happen.

    Wal-Mart absolutely supports your RKBA. Please, for the sake of all of us carriers, don't let a petty functionary get away with this.


    Kudos to what Eye95 said !!!
    Last edited by carracer; 01-07-2013 at 06:06 PM.

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    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
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    "I guess' obama has everybody thinking they can ...just walk up on us and start talking crap.
    Last edited by crackersillo; 01-07-2013 at 06:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    ...he started getting mad and saying that I was wrong and I need to get out of his store.
    I'd have asked to see that name tag again, and pointed out that it didn't say "Walton" on it.

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    Please keep us posted. Contact the store manager as soon as possible!

    It is very likely that this guy has already bragged about the encounter to his fellow minions, and they will know how to find out who it was.

    If you really think he called the police, you may be able to get a record of the call through FOIA or similar laws.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Talked to the Assistant Manager today (manager was not there) and I was assured the issue would be dealt with and that I was more than welcome in the store.

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    Was told to leave Wal-Mart today.

    Hmmm..."the issue being dealt with" is to passive and vague. Will he or won't he enforce corporate policy that allows OC in stores in States where OC is lawful? He needs to answer that question point-blank.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Hmmm..."the issue being dealt with" is to passive and vague. Will he or won't he enforce corporate policy that allows OC in stores in States where OC is lawful? He needs to answer that question point-blank.


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    I asked him if I was allowed to return to the store with my firearm and he said that as long as no laws were being broken that I was welcome. The issue could come in that no one is knowledgeable about OC laws, and this same guy could say "NA-UH IT'S ILLEGAL TO OC" and the manager might take his side I don't know. I pointed out to him that OC was legal while we was talking but that doesn't mean he knows that it's legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Hmmm..."the issue being dealt with" is to passive and vague. Will he or won't he enforce corporate policy that allows OC in stores in States where OC is lawful? He needs to answer that question point-blank.


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    I think he answered the important question--the OCer is allowed in the store.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    I asked him if I was allowed to return to the store with my firearm and he said that as long as no laws were being broken that I was welcome. The issue could come in that no one is knowledgeable about OC laws, and this same guy could say "NA-UH IT'S ILLEGAL TO OC" and the manager might take his side I don't know. I pointed out to him that OC was legal while we was talking but that doesn't mean he knows that it's legal.
    The manager needs to call corporate. I can assure you from personal knowledge that Wal-Mart corporate knows that OC is legal in Alabama and that they will not tolerate OCers being hassled by their personnel. At least one manager "disappeared" in Montgomery after an OC incident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I think he answered the important question--the OCer is allowed in the store.
    That is not what I got from the post. "If no laws are broken" does not mean that they know that OC does not break the law. At least one person didn't know, and the OP is indicating that he worries that that guy still does not know.

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    Been two times two leave Walmart. E-mail or call Walmart in my experience has been very quick, to remedy any misunderstandings.

    First time was by employee pretending he was manager. Real manager called me back and told me they support the 2A and I am more than welcome to come back OC'ing.

    Next time was new manager very anti gun , came in on his day off to ask me to leave. He was forced to call me back and with proper Walmart policy. But expressed his personal desire I wouldn't carry to which I respectfully disagreed.

    Both times I left immediately not purchasing my goods. I am still a regular shopper there and I always OC.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Went back yesterday while OC'ing and didn't have any issues, which is the norm. If I encounter anymore issues from the same store I will likely go straight to regional manager to have it resolved.

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    Always carry a recorder, and when stupidity starts, start recording video as well....
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Fort Payne , AL.

    during a recent visit, I called the Fort Payne police, and was pleased to be informed of Alabama carry regs. Although I was not in total compliance, I was likely "ok" , so long as there were no incidents. Carrying "in vehicle" requires a CCW permit, but on your person is legal ... curious officer, how'd I get here ? To that he replied: pay the $25 for the CCW permit ... or keep the thing out of sight/locked up. ... Well, since I'm not yet a property owner in the fine state of Alabama, it IS on my radar. I can't wait to get started there, where I found not 1 canadian in Dekalb county for the entire 4 days I spent there... now, Huntsville was another story... but still better than DC/PG county ... yikes ! the caveat was the officer also said "most" law enforcement personel would be "understanding/sympathetic" to legal gun owners... When he found I was from Maryland, he asked if I was an "Obama supporter" ... to which I replied ... ??

    I never had to go to that Wal Mart ...

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    Don't ever ask the police what the law is. They have built a mythology of what the law is, and they will ignorantly or maliciously pass along that mythology. For example, they misinformed you as to the law about carrying in your car without a CPL. The truth is that, except for a very few circumstances specifically list in the law, there is no provision in Alabama for carrying in a car without a CPL. It is illegal. Period. Keeping it out of sight does not make carry in a car legal. A CPL or certain specific origins, destinations, and reasons for carrying in a car do.

    Don't ever ask the police if you can OC. Usually they will say no. You got lucky and found some officers who were not misinformed. That won't always be the case.

    Read the law for yourself. Don't even take our word for it. At most, let us help you through the process of reading and learning the law. But, again, read it for yourself. Read all the sections on firearms, CPLs, weapons, trespass, stop and identify, etc. Alabama law is not that long and complicated (unlike Ohio law!) Read case law.

    Join DefendAlabama.com. The link is in my signature below.

    Welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Don't ever ask the police what the law is.... You got lucky and found some officers who were not misinformed.
    Welcome.
    OP did not talk to the cops...to a manager of the store...

    Anywho, eye is right, never ask HS graduates (ie cops) what the law is...they have no clue.

    And if are are contacted regarding the initial negative experience, keep lips shut...if needed you'll have all the time in the world to flap your gums at a hearing if so choose to at that time. If they come to you and start asking questions then it very well could be that they do not have enough evidence to arrest you w/o your answers ... so why answer?

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    Was told to leave Wal-Mart today.

    I was replying to the post above mine, where the poster did call the police to ask them the law.

    BTW, some police departments require college degrees, so I don't recommend impugning the education level of cops. Many are quite educated. The problem is one of a mythology that builds up within departments, incorrect notions of the law that get passed on and believed. The same happens here. Police are generally no better nor no worse than we are. The problem is that folks think that the police know the law better than most, but they do not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    BTW, some police departments require college degrees, so I don't recommend impugning the education level of cops. Many are quite educated.
    Even small town reserve cops typically have Associate's degrees, and in cities it's not unusual to find patrolmen with Master's degrees.

    The problem is, those degrees tend to be in Criminal Justice or Government, which amounts to "Vo-Tech for Police Officers". As you say, they rely on the mythology they're taught, not the actual law.

    It's not unlike any other specialty degree program. A degree in Education teaches navigation of the profession, not how to teach, and certainly not mastery of any particular subject matter. The same is true for Criminal Justice degrees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Even small town reserve cops typically have Associate's degrees, and in cities it's not unusual to find patrolmen with Master's degrees.

    The problem is, those degrees tend to be in Criminal Justice or Government, which amounts to "Vo-Tech for Police Officers". As you say, they rely on the mythology they're taught, not the actual law.

    It's not unlike any other specialty degree program. A degree in Education teaches navigation of the profession, not how to teach, and certainly not mastery of any particular subject matter. The same is true for Criminal Justice degrees.
    I have an education degree in math. I had to take all the same math courses as any other undergrad in math plus the education courses. Not much room was left for electives and I had to take the equivalent of about five years worth of credits to get my four-year degree, more than a math degree would have required.

    My experience may not be the norm, but every individual is unique--and that was more or less the point of my post. The norm for cops may be not to have a four-year degree, but for a certain poster to imply that cops only have HS educations is the precise kind of generalization that we should avoid. It is an indication of a bigotry that we should eschew.

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    Was told to leave Wal-Mart today.

    Criminal justice, sociology, psychology, and public administration are the common ones.

    I'm an oddball with a management undergraduate degree and will complete my masters in management soon.

    The education is sometimes problematic but normally it is a fault in the logical thinking / deductive reasoning skills. Rote knowledge does not promote either one.

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    Send an EECB, tell them the time of day and store you were at, describe the situation. If they care enough to check on what happened, they have the ability to remotely connect to the store's security cameras and view the footage from that date and time as long as it's within 30 days. They can then inform the district manager and forward recorded footage to him to disipline or fire the employee or manager. And next time, don't bother with checking out, leave your card with goods in place and just walk out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I have an education degree in math. I had to take all the same math courses as any other undergrad in math plus the education courses.
    I took a ed math course when finishing up my BS in Science... it was funny seeing other students trying to figure stuff out ... and when they asked me for an equation for something I would not just tell them .. I would derive it from scratch using actual math skills...they would say "how did you do that" and I say "that's math ladies". They were all impressed with my bulging math skills.

    My next class was thermodynamics .... glad I took that ed math course, it helped me out in that class hahahahaha ...

    I found I was 1 course short of graduating and took the educational math course for the easy credit. Easy A. Never studied but I did go to class; hey I signed up for it.

    Of course our kids think we are all stupid 'cause we be old and creaky ... now my kid is taking diffy Q and he's com'in to Mr. Stupid for help. Hahahaha. My brain hurts. I look at his stuff and say "hey! the 5th differential of that is zero!"


    Math: the only subject where you can always prove the teacher wrong ..
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 02-02-2013 at 12:57 AM.

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