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While driving home.

B

BadMoon Risin68

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
53
Location
Portland, OR
While I was driving home yesterday from work at about 3:45pm I heard a call come out on the Scanner. Dispatcher said that there was a guy with a hand gun walking into Gateway Fred Meyer. The call was very specific about the truck and the gentleman that got out of the car. Portland Police started rolling to the scene. Still no crime. As they start arriving caller says that the guy is leaving, business as usual. One Officer gets the brains to ask why are we going to the scene is there an altercation or what is happening? The call taker reported to the dispatcher that the guy got out of his car and placed his weapon into his holster. I presume it was in a glove box or something. Gun was never "brandished." Police Officer asks, did he look menacing? No response 2 seconds later another officer states he has pulled him over in the parking lot. So I'm thinking WTH you have no reasonable articulated suspicion of a crime and its all over the radio that you don't; why pull him over? Oh that's right you need his ID for your report... Next 2 minutes go by 10-4 he's got a permit... You wasted how long just to go get his ID? Why does the dispatcher not know to ask these questions before they get to harassing a guy who chooses not to leave his gun in the car like a good responsible owner should?
 
A

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
BadMoon Risin68 said:
While I was driving home yesterday from work at about 3:45pm I heard a call come out on the Scanner. Dispatcher said that there was a guy with a hand gun walking into Gateway Fred Meyer. The call was very specific about the truck and the gentleman that got out of the car. Portland Police started rolling to the scene. Still no crime. As they start arriving caller says that the guy is leaving, business as usual. One Officer gets the brains to ask why are we going to the scene is there an altercation or what is happening? The call taker reported to the dispatcher that the guy got out of his car and placed his weapon into his holster. I presume it was in a glove box or something. Gun was never "brandished." Police Officer asks, did he look menacing? No response 2 seconds later another officer states he has pulled him over in the parking lot. So I'm thinking WTH you have no reasonable articulated suspicion of a crime and its all over the radio that you don't; why pull him over? Oh that's right you need his ID for your report... Next 2 minutes go by 10-4 he's got a permit... You wasted how long just to go get his ID? Why does the dispatcher not know to ask these questions before they get to harassing a guy who chooses not to leave his gun in the car like a good responsible owner should?
Click to expand...


Why would leaving it in the car make him a "good responsible owner?" I mean are you trying to say that the school is some magical safe place that crime doesn't happen and as such he wouldn't need his gun? Because history would prove that false. Or maybe you're scared of "offending" the sheep? Because personally I'm not overly worried about that when it comes to the safety of myself and my family.
 
sharkey

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
Aknazer said:
[/b]

Why would leaving it in the car make him a "good responsible owner?" I mean are you trying to say that the school is some magical safe place that crime doesn't happen and as such he wouldn't need his gun? Because history would prove that false. Or maybe you're scared of "offending" the sheep? Because personally I'm not overly worried about that when it comes to the safety of myself and my family.
Click to expand...

He was being sarcastic.
 
We-the-People

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
So what did the officer tell the victim was the reason he was pulled over? If that had been me and he said anything like "I stopped you because you were seen with a gun" well......we'd have had a problem because he's just admitted that he had no legal authority to pull me over and he's not going to get any ID, permit, vehicle papers, NADDA. And that's going to piss him off and I'd probably have gone for a ride in his vehicle.

Grrrr this stuff really pisses me off.
 
Ironbar

Ironbar

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
385
Location
Tigard, Oregon, USA
Aknazer said:
[/b]

Why would leaving it in the car make him a "good responsible owner?" I mean are you trying to say that the school is some magical safe place that crime doesn't happen and as such he wouldn't need his gun? Because history would prove that false. Or maybe you're scared of "offending" the sheep? Because personally I'm not overly worried about that when it comes to the safety of myself and my family.
Click to expand...

I read that twice, and it still seems straight out of left field.

As I read the OP's post, he didn't want to leave his gun in the car (as a responsible person) because if the car were broken in to while he was away, a criminal would then have his gun.
 
We-the-People

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Ironbar said:
I read that twice, and it still seems straight out of left field.

As I read the OP's post, he didn't want to leave his gun in the car (as a responsible person) because if the car were broken in to while he was away, a criminal would then have his gun.
Click to expand...

i Agree with that interpretation of the post as well.
 
MKEgal

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
BadMoon Risin68 said:
Why does the dispatcher not know to ask these questions before they get to harassing a guy who chooses not to leave his gun in the car
Click to expand...
+1
Here in SE WI we have a monthly OC meet-n-greet at a Starbuck's. We've invited the local LEOs, and once in a while they show up to say hi. They're pretty laid back about us.

One time, one of the coffee gals told me (as she was selling me something yummy & overpriced) that the police had called to ask if our group was meeting there today, & if the SBX folks were OK.

Apparently someone called police from the parking lot to say there was a guy with a gun ... eventually admitted it was in a holster on his waist & he was drinking coffee.

So the calltaker officer told the guy that's legal, & it's probably this group that meets there once in a while, but he'd look into it. Then he called SBX. Took maybe 10 seconds to determine that it was us (about 60 of us), the SBX folks were just fine, thank you, and very very busy.

We FOIA'd the audio of the call, & it's up on YouTube, with similar audio from another city that didn't turn out quite so well (for the citizens or the officers involved... the city got sued, the citizens got tickets, which were eventually dismissed).

Ironbar said:
As I read the OP's post, he didn't want to leave his gun in the car (as a responsible person) because if the car were broken in to while he was away, a criminal would then have his gun.
Click to expand...
+1 It took me a second reading, but that's the way I read it too.
 
OC for ME

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
BadMoon Risin68 said:
While I was driving home yesterday from work at about 3:45pm I heard a call come out on the Scanner. Dispatcher said that there was a guy with a hand gun walking into Gateway Fred Meyer. The call was very specific about the truck and the gentleman that got out of the car. Portland Police started rolling to the scene. Still no crime. As they start arriving caller says that the guy is leaving, business as usual. One Officer gets the brains to ask why are we going to the scene is there an altercation or what is happening? The call taker reported to the dispatcher that the guy got out of his car and placed his weapon into his holster. I presume it was in a glove box or something. Gun was never "brandished." Police Officer asks, did he look menacing? No response 2 seconds later another officer states he has pulled him over in the parking lot. So I'm thinking WTH you have no reasonable articulated suspicion of a crime and its all over the radio that you don't; why pull him over? Oh that's right you need his ID for your report... Next 2 minutes go by 10-4 he's got a permit... You wasted how long just to go get his ID? Why does the dispatcher not know to ask these questions before they get to harassing a guy who chooses not to leave his gun in the car like a good responsible owner should?
Click to expand...
The following are not directed at towards the OP. I quote him to place my comments in the proper context.

Ask who, what question? If the who is the driver of the truck and the question is "does he have a permit/who is he", then a stop by LE is required. The issue: the citizen was stopped.

It can be inferred that the citizen is not adverse to complying with extra legal demands made by LE.
 
J

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
OC for ME said:
The following are not directed at towards the OP. I quote him to place my comments in the proper context.

Ask who, what question? If the who is the driver of the truck and the question is "does he have a permit/who is he", then a stop by LE is required. The issue: the citizen was stopped.

It can be inferred that the citizen is not adverse to complying with extra legal demands made by LE.
Click to expand...

While to get the information a "stop" may be required, I don't see where it is LEGALLY PERMISSABLE!!!!! Without RAS or stronger, the stop was an infringement of his rights!
 
hermannr

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
OC for ME said:
Ask who, what question? If the who is the driver of the truck and the question is "does he have a permit/who is he", then a stop by LE is required. The issue: the citizen was stopped.

QUOTE]

Random stops to check license compliance is not legal... US Supreme Court in Prouse V Delaware.

If a person is in the store with a pistol, even if a license is required, and not doing anything illegal...the only possible reason would be for a random license check...completely unnecessary, and illegal.

If a person that was in the store left in a vehicle, and LE knows this, unless there was something "Illegal" (reasonable suspician that a crime had been committed or was being committed) there is no legal reason to stop the vehicle.

NO: There is NO stop "required" in the senario presented. There is no requirement to supply ID or any other thing,
Click to expand...
 
OC for ME

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
JoeSparky said:
While to get the information a "stop" may be required, I don't see where it is LEGALLY PERMISSIBLE!!!!! Without RAS or stronger, the stop was an infringement of his rights!
Click to expand...
I completely agree. However, I'm quite confident that the LEO who stopped the citizen would be able to articulate his justification for initiating the stop.

hermannr said:
OC for ME said:
Ask who, what question? If the who is the driver of the truck and the question is "does he have a permit/who is he", then a stop by LE is required. The issue: the citizen was stopped.
Click to expand...

Random stops to check license compliance is not legal... US Supreme Court in Prouse V Delaware.

If a person is in the store with a pistol, even if a license is required, and not doing anything illegal...the only possible reason would be for a random license check...completely unnecessary, and illegal.

If a person that was in the store left in a vehicle, and LE knows this, unless there was something "Illegal" (reasonable suspicion that a crime had been committed or was being committed) there is no legal reason to stop the vehicle.

NO: There is NO stop "required" in the scenario presented. There is no requirement to supply ID or any other thing,
Click to expand...
See my response to Citizen above. To lawfully stop a citizen while that citizen is on foot is a high bar to hurdle for a LEO. However, that bar is lowered significantly when a citizen gets behind the wheel. All a cop has got to claim is that the citizen "seemed to be driving erratically."
 
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