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Thread: Anyone see Alex Jones on CNN last night?

  1. #1
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Anyone see Alex Jones on CNN last night?

    So Alex Jones showed up for an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN (already you know something's wrong there) And so Piers brings up that Alex has been promoting the deportation petition, and right Away our good patriot friend Alex Jones begins babbling about banking cartels and the New World Order staging attacks to disarm america to take away our rights.

    He then begins some rant about how it's 1775 all over again and "we're ready for the fight" and basically making himself look like someone who needs to be committed to a mental health hospital for public safety...

    really He didn't gun owners any favors by making an ass of himself on national cable TV

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ly-really-bad/

    This is exactly who NOT to sound like when defending gun rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    This is exactly who NOT to sound like when defending gun rights.
    And that is EXACTLY why they wanted him on the show.

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    EMN,

    Even nuts can possess facts. Its how they evaluate facts that makes them nutty. And, given some of the things the fedgov was proved doing, I'm not sure how far off base he is. For sure, the banking cartel has been proved.

    Why on earth do you worry so much about how somebody makes the rest of us look? There are plenty of people are not going to take him as the face of gun rights. In fact, I'll bet the number of people who do, is rather low.

    So, relax. And, quit worrying about it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    EMN,

    It's not like he was carrying an AK or anything. You can only make us look bad by exercising the 2cd in poor taste, not the 1st.


    You are one of us who say a right not exercised .... are you not?
    Last edited by sharkey; 01-08-2013 at 04:14 AM.

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    But when those facts are presented by nuts, those facts are dismissed. If someone else uses that fact, they'll hear, "Where'd ya get that? From Alex Jones? *snicker*"

    Guys like him do not help. They only serve to take our collective eye off the ball.

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Style over substance is creeping into this discussion. Next we will be expressing our desire for Mr. Jones to be tolerant of Mr. Morgan's views, in the spirit of the 1A. Mr. Morgan's call for the repeal of the 2A notwithstanding.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Style over substance is creeping into this discussion. Next we will be expressing our desire for Mr. Jones to be tolerant of Mr. Morgan's views, in the spirit of the 1A. Mr. Morgan's call for the repeal of the 2A notwithstanding.
    My apologies good sir.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    My apologies good sir.
    No apology necessary, Good Sir. I merely express my observation of a oft repeated trend, in this particular thread.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    EMN,

    Even nuts can possess facts. Its how they evaluate facts that makes them nutty. And, given some of the things the fedgov was proved doing, I'm not sure how far off base he is. For sure, the banking cartel has been proved.

    Why on earth do you worry so much about how somebody makes the rest of us look? There are plenty of people are not going to take him as the face of gun rights. In fact, I'll bet the number of people who do, is rather low.

    So, relax. And, quit worrying about it.
    +1 Good post.

    Anti's will be anti's no matter what we say or do.

    I'd rather have conspiracy nuts who want to limit federal government on my side than those who believe in a bigger stronger government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    But when those facts are presented by nuts, those facts are dismissed. If someone else uses that fact, they'll hear, "Where'd ya get that? From Alex Jones? *snicker*"

    Guys like him do not help. They only serve to take our collective eye off the ball.
    Rejected by who? The people who knew there was a conspiracy to murder the first Kennedy and MLK because the stories didn't add up? Or, the oh-so sophisticated media talking heads who reject pretty much anything freedom-minded or anti-establishment anyway?

    I think Alex Jones gets carried away with his evaluations sometimes. But, its not like he's saying there are purple alien body-snatchers operating out of Roswell and taking over the world.

    And, its not like you and EMN can't undermine the nuttiness by presenting the same facts to your circles of friends in rational manner. Or, can't you?

    Worrying about the way Jones represents gun-owners says a lot about how you view the audience.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Anyone see Alex Jones on CNN last night?

    I do not have contact with Jones' or Morgan's audiences, so I can influence hardly anyone who saw the broadcast. Therefore, his nuttiness is out there, undermining the rationality of the rest of the movement, will little I can do but complain about nuts out there presenting what should be a rational case.

    And, that is all that I am doing, saying that Jones is not helping the case. His fringiness hurts everything he says, even when he is right.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    And, that is all that I am doing, saying that Jones is not helping the case. His fringiness hurts everything he says, even when he is right.
    <o>
    I don't know if he has hurt anything. The 2nd amendment is still the 2nd amendment. If anything, its getting a lot of plays.

    I don't think he is "on the fringe" .. he is vocal that's all.

    Who here will give their guns up that the gov't says they must? And what are those who are not willing to do this willing to do when they knock on the door?

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    if Jones is nutty, i'd hate to see what i would be classified as. while i dont agree with every thing jones has said over the years, i do realize that when the SHTF, i would want jones along side me fighting for freedom.

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    I think Alex Jones did a good job with Piers Morgan. Larry Pratt, of the Gun Owners of America, was much more calm and composed, which resulted in Piers constantly speaking over him and calling him an "unbelievably stupid man". While I think Larry Pratt did an outstanding job in that interview, I appreciated how Alex Jones brought a gun to Piers Morgan's knife fight.

    Also, if you google "Alex Jones open carry", you will see that Jones routinely supports open carry advocates. Let's not forget that we are oftentimes considered extreme even by other so-called supporters of the 2nd Amendment.

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    Anyone see Alex Jones on CNN last night?

    I am not saying that Jones is extreme. I welcome the help of extreme supporters of the RKBA. I am saying that he is a nutjob. Nutjobs, even when they say the right things, do not help forward the cause among rank-and-file Americans who need to be persuaded out of their emotional views into a rational one. Jones just causes them to retrench.

    Yeah, many in the movement appreciate him. (I don't.) But they already support the RKBA. The point in being on Morgan's show is to reach people who don't fully support the Right, but could be converted. Jones does not help at all in that regard, no matter how happy that preacher is making the choir.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I do not have contact with Jones' or Morgan's audiences, so I can influence hardly anyone who saw the broadcast. Therefore, his nuttiness is out there, undermining the rationality of the rest of the movement, will little I can do but complain about nuts out there presenting what should be a rational case.

    And, that is all that I am doing, saying that Jones is not helping the case. His fringiness hurts everything he says, even when he is right.


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    Careful, Eye. You're doing yourself no favors by stipulating that rationality should be the basis. Persuasion has a long, long history of including emotion. Limiting discussion to rationality is like saying wood should only be worked with one type of chisel.

    If you stipulate rationality, you will lose often to those who include emotion--because men are emotional beings. Nothing--nothing--men do omits emotion. Every single activity of a human being has an emotion associated with it. For any readers unsure about that, take a moment and recall various activities, and then recall your emotion at the time.

    Its not whether the discussion is rational; the first importance is whether the persuasion is toward an ethical goal.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Anyone see Alex Jones on CNN last night?

    Emotion is the tool of those who cannot use ration. In this case, it is the tool of the antis. We should not use emotion, we should passionately use rationality.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Emotion is the tool of those who cannot use ration. In this case, it is the tool of the antis. We should not use emotion, we should passionately use rationality.


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    Balderdash! You're telling me that men like Cicero--Rome's greatest orator--Socrates, Patrick Henry, Daniel Webster, couldn't use rationality? That's absurd.

    Nevermind The Sermon on the Mount. The Son strikes at least six or seven emotional chords, and in a few places, several at once by his phrasing. Are you really prepared to say the Son of God couldn't use rationality? Or, that God so little understood His creations, that he was mistaken in his appeal to men's deepest emotions?

    The problem with anti-gunner's style is that they utilize negative emotions like fear towards an unethical goal.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Emotion is the tool of those who cannot use ration. In this case, it is the tool of the antis. We should not use emotion, we should passionately use rationality.


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    <o>
    Its obvious with the re election of the tyrant Obama that the time for emotionless discussion has passed. If we dont stand and shout, we will lose. The only thing about the interview I was disappointed about was that he strayed from the subject that he went there to discuss. Without more people like Alex Jones, we will fade quietly into the dark wondering, "What Happened?"
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Anyone see Alex Jones on CNN last night?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    But when those facts are presented by nuts, those facts are dismissed. If someone else uses that fact, they'll hear, "Where'd ya get that? From Alex Jones? *snicker*"

    Guys like him do not help. They only serve to take our collective eye off the ball.
    Especially when video clips of his lunatic ranting is spread all over twitter and FB. It just doesn't help the cause. Everyone thinks we're all nuts like him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post
    Especially when video clips of his lunatic ranting is spread all over twitter and FB. It just doesn't help the cause. Everyone thinks we're all nuts like him.
    Celebration! I open carried this afternoon and encountered one person--the one person in the whole world--who doesn't think we're nuts.
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-08-2013 at 05:09 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I personally think Alex Jones needs to be committed before he leads his cult to mass suicide.


    The guy does all sorts of strange theatrics, nearly every raving prediction he makes is wrong. He goes around flashing his gun on prisonplanet TV promising to "take people out" and in one show said that he looks forward to the day when CPS workers are drug out of their officer and executed on national TV.

    Then he's out claiming there is a new world order of globalist banking elites trying to take away our freedom to own guns so they can oppress us (apparently the firearms corporations and the banks and insurance companies that do business with the firearms industry are not part of the globalist banking elite, or are they?)

    Then he says 9/11 was an inside job (of course), just about the only conspiracy I haven't heard him spout is Freedom1man's theory of NASA destroying evidence of moon people.

    The problem with all you extreme libertarians, is that you just assume that everyone else in the world is supposed to be an extreme libertarian (which will never happen) and instead of trying to convince people through selling your ideas, you go forth and say things like the School system is responsible for the sandy hook shooting becuase they shouldn't exist, that people need guns to overthrow the government, and all sorts of other strange stuff. How many people can relate to using guns to overthrow the government? virtually no one, the only time in this country since 1900 that guns have been used in that regard was an incident in 1946, and even then the goal was not to overthrow the government, but accomplish a specific objective of retrieving ballot boxes. So when you go around saying

    Well I need my guns cuz I reckon them government gonna take 'em away, thomas J said we need a good re'lution every 20 yers I reckon we big overdue

    Please citizen, pretend you're the average suburban american or congressional representative, who does that guy look like? someone who's a danger to themselves and others. No one knows what its like to go to war on their own streets nor do they wanna find out. It's just like when Wayne LaPierre blamed video games for the Sandy Hook shooting, well the majority of young people their first exposure to firearms will be on the screen, not the NRA safety class or firing range.When I was in high school I used that to my advantage to introduce people to the firearms culture, at the time a game called Call of Duty: World At War was popular and had a storyline following the Russian 3rd Shock Army's advance into Germany, so I used the fact that the Mosin-Nagant was featured in the game to take people to the range and shoot a very real Mosin-Nagant.

    If you want people in the gun culture supporting gun rights, you need to introduce in a way they can relate to. If the average americans view of a gun owner is some lunatic from Texas raving about banking cartels and 1775 all over again then all we're going to see is more gun control.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    And that's exactly why Alex Jones was invited to the program.

    do you think Piers Morgan would've been ready to debate Massad Ayoob, or Dave Workman, or Alan Gottlieb, or Lars Larson, or Robert Farago or any of the actually smart and sane pro-gun voices, no he would've treated then like larry pratt and made himself look like a moron, instead he brought A.J. and just let him babble because then he doesn't have to trash gun owners, AJ did it for him.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 01-08-2013 at 05:27 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  24. #24
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    EMN,

    We never went to the moon.

    ETA ... as I'm still reading your long diatrabe, I'm starting to think there was no Sandy Hook either, but that's a whole new thread.

    I was about to say Mr. Jones does not represent the Libertarians but I guess my above statements just threw that out the window, eh?
    Last edited by sharkey; 01-08-2013 at 05:34 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    SNIP Please citizen, pretend you're the average suburban american or congressional representative, who does that guy look like? someone who's a danger to themselves and others. No one knows what its like to go to war on their own streets nor do they wanna find out.
    You guys worry too much about the effect Alex Jones has in the minds of society regarding the rest of us. Y'all act like almost as if a nation of unthinking boobs is gonna suddenly oppose guns just because of Alex Jones. Almost as though you can't go on twitter and use it as an opportunity to show how reasonable self-defense freedom really is. I can't say I'm all that impressed with your understanding or attitude towards your fellow man's intelligence.

    People are going to be far more affected by the steady diet of anti-gun message running in the media--the fence sitters and predisposed anyway. I was in a fast-food restaurant for about 30 minutes today. The entire period was filled with anti-gun this-and-that. All thirty minutes except for commercials.

    You're just assigning too much significance to Alex Jones.


    Separately, I don't recall hearing anybody criticize Ted Nugent for stuff like telling a certain woman running for prez "...there's a message in there somewhere; read between the lines" while holding up five fingers.


    Really all you're doing is accusing Piers Morgan of being effective at accomplishing his goal. So what? It would be more amazing--and unbelievable--if the anti-gunners did not include very intelligent, effective people. Quit whining and get busy nullifying their effect.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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