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Thread: 'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm Meet

  1. #1
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm Meet

    Quote Originally Posted by MLive
    England, who is president of the South Hill Neighborhood Association, attended the Dec. 18 City Commission meeting to speak about a proposed assessment to fund the new Pleasant Park. During the meeting, two members of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. spoke to the commission about a city firearms ordinance they believe conflicts with state law.

    In the hallway outside the City Hall meeting room, England chided the men - Tom Lambert and Phillip Hofmeister, the president of Michigan Open Carry – for bearing arms in the chambers.
    Read the rest of this disgusting garbage here!

    Phil, did you hear about this?

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Read the rest of this disgusting garbage here!

    Phil, did you hear about this?
    What in the F**k. Are you kidding me? Good Citizenship award to someone trying to stop a person from doing something perfectly legal? Oh, yes, America, you have reached a new low.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: 'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm

    Well not trying to be harsh here. The bad guys who read mlive now know its easy pickings at the old folks homes. So be it. Oh mr line cook you are so brave as to gripe at law abiding citizens that you clearly were not afraid of because you knew they would not cap your fat a$$. Here's your award for dashing freedom.

    I would love to see this guy go down to the ghetto to do the same and see what award he gets then.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 01-08-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Talk about blasphemy or bastardization.

    As if being a good citizen by standing against rights was bad enough we have this;

    “When you have small children there (at the meeting) and we just had a gun incident (in Newtown, Conn.), I think they were not being good citizens at all because they didn’t stop to think about the effect they were having on somebody else,” said Snow, a retired high school teacher who uses the We The People curriculum in the retirement home class.

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    “I was absolutely blown away that in this country we can have a meeting like that in government chambers where someone can walk in with a gun strapped to their hip openly,” he said. “I couldn’t hold my tongue.
    If it helps with an ED crisis, as opposed to medication, hell...why not eh?

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    Regular Member MikeTheGreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    Talk about blasphemy or bastardization.

    As if being a good citizen by standing against rights was bad enough we have this;
    Clearly they are not being good citizens by carrying firearms to protect themselves, and the people around them, including those small chidren.

    In my book, that's actually the exact definition of a good citizen.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: 'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm

    The fact that Grand Rapids allowed this to be done in a official city meeting speaks volumes. I hope many, many OC events come their way in the future.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    If he was intimidated by the MWAG, then he would not have confronted them to begin with. It is in general, a bad idea to pick a fight with an armed man, especially concerning his passion issues. The fact that nothing happened to him is proof that his beliefs and concerns are inaccurate, misguided, and unfounded.
    This is not exactly the message we've been attempting to convey here, and elsewhere, for the 6 or 7 years. While your premise is accurate in regards to potential badguys, this mindset has no bearing for any attempt to desensitize the masses.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    Talk about blasphemy or bastardization.

    As if being a good citizen by standing against rights was bad enough we have this;

    “When you have small children there (at the meeting) and we just had a gun incident (in Newtown, Conn.), I think they were not being good citizens at all because they didn’t stop to think about the effect they were having on somebody else,” said Snow, a retired high school teacher who uses the We The People curriculum in the retirement home class.
    This is in the curriculum she teaches.

    http://gresyn0.100webspace.net/lesso...rd1to2scrn.pdf

    Sometimes people use power but they do not
    have the right to do so. A school bully might
    tell you to leave the school yard. Robbers might
    tell you to give them money. They do not have
    the right to make you do these things. They use
    power without authority. This means using
    power without having the right to do so.
    Last edited by sharkey; 01-08-2013 at 04:41 PM.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: 'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm

    Well of course they were being bullied. How dare common citizens ask officials in power to obey the law!
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Sometimes people use power but they do not
    have the right to do so. A school bully might
    tell you to leave the school yard. Robbers might
    tell you to give them money. They do not have
    the right to make you do these things. They use
    power without authority. This means using
    power without having the right to do so.
    http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.co...-civilization/

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

    ...

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
    People do things they do not have the authority to do, or the right to do, all the time. Saying they do not have the authority or the right has never in the past stopped them, and it will never in the future stop them.

    When I have as much, or more force than you, I can stop you from doing things you do not have the authority or the right to do. Without that force, all I can do is try to persuade you.

    These folks (anti-gun rights) do not want to reason with us. They want to force us to do what they want. That is why they will get all uyp in the face of someone with a gun on their hip and rant, rave, and call them everything but an angel of G_d. I am convinced that they know we have the self-control, restraint and will not to respond to their use of force with our own use of force. One of these days one of them will cross the line from merely frothing at the mouth in our face to the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. At that time they will discover that their mis-step is irrecoverable.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Over analysis. My point was this is the subject she teaches these seniors.


    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.co...-civilization/



    People do things they do not have the authority to do, or the right to do, all the time. Saying they do not have the authority or the right has never in the past stopped them, and it will never in the future stop them.

    When I have as much, or more force than you, I can stop you from doing things you do not have the authority or the right to do. Without that force, all I can do is try to persuade you.

    These folks (anti-gun rights) do not want to reason with us. They want to force us to do what they want. That is why they will get all uyp in the face of someone with a gun on their hip and rant, rave, and call them everything but an angel of G_d. I am convinced that they know we have the self-control, restraint and will not to respond to their use of force with our own use of force. One of these days one of them will cross the line from merely frothing at the mouth in our face to the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. At that time they will discover that their mis-step is irrecoverable.

    stay safe.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    Over analysis. My point was this is the subject she teaches these seniors.
    Apparently, they are elderly immigrants; otherwise, they would see the fallacy.....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    If he was intimidated by the MWAG, then he would not have confronted them to begin with. It is in general, a bad idea to pick a fight with an armed man, especially concerning his passion issues. The fact that nothing happened to him is proof that his beliefs and concerns are inaccurate, misguided, and unfounded.
    I see you are back to"helping the cause" as you posted the same comment on the Mlive website under Neil. I agree with alot of what you have to say, but other times you just say the dumbest ****. Thanks!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    This is not exactly the message we've been attempting to convey here, and elsewhere, for the 6 or 7 years. While your premise is accurate in regards to potential badguys, this mindset has no bearing for any attempt to desensitize the masses.
    While stainless's point is off putting in terms of what we teach people to live by as OCers, he does have a point in the sense that the sort of person who aggressively postures against someone with firearms will have a strong tendency to be impulsive and in fact dangerous in a conflict situation. In fact, much of this revolves around their own insecurities in many cases, because they know they lack impulse control, and for one reason or another wish to project that on everyone.

    While I reserve the right to be wrong about this gentleman, the odds based on my experiences point towards him being a loose cannon so to speak.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: 'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    While stainless's point is off putting in terms of what we teach people to live by as OCers, he does have a point in the sense that the sort of person who aggressively postures against someone with firearms will have a strong tendency to be impulsive and in fact dangerous in a conflict situation. In fact, much of this revolves around their own insecurities in many cases, because they know they lack impulse control, and for one reason or another wish to project that on everyone.

    While I reserve the right to be wrong about this gentleman, the odds based on my experiences point towards him being a loose cannon so to speak.
    Yep. Phil is lucky this guy didn't whip out one of those large wooden spoons he uses to serve mush up at the old farts home. Phil could have gotten splinters in his melon!
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 01-08-2013 at 09:58 PM.
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Read the rest of this disgusting garbage here!

    Phil, did you hear about this?
    Phfft.

    This stuff is too easy to demolish. Just ridicule the Board and England.

    What rights are they going to attack next? Is the Board going to hand out awards for people who denigrate the First Amendment?

    Effect on others? The gun doesn't emit fear waves. If someone is nervous its because of their own ideas about guns?

    Etc, etc, etc.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Yep. Phil is lucky this guy didn't whip out one of those large wooden spoons he uses to serve mush up at the old farts home. Phil could have gotten splinters in his melon!
    I wasn't suggesting that anyone was in any danger at all, rather I was saying that the circumstance paints this guy to be a bit nuts, and not someone I could see awarding.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    If someone is nervous its because of their own ideas about guns?
    100%, at least as long as the carry in question is safe and legal.

    Which brings back the point that those who get freaked out anyway, and on top of that act on that fear with posturing, tend to be mentally unstable, more or less.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: 'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I wasn't suggesting that anyone was in any danger at all, rather I was saying that the circumstance paints this guy to be a bit nuts, and not someone I could see awarding.
    I know. I was going for a laugh in the cheap seats. Thanks for squashing that. Sheeez talk about a tough crowd!
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Phil, did you hear about this?


    Q knows all...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledFrogs View Post
    If he was intimidated by the MWAG, then he would not have confronted them to begin with. It is in general, a bad idea to pick a fight with an armed man, especially concerning his passion issues. The fact that nothing happened to him is proof that his beliefs and concerns are inaccurate, misguided, and unfounded.


    Stop saying things I have to agree with, Neil.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine1856 View Post
    I see you are back to"helping the cause" as you posted the same comment on the Mlive website under Neil.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    While stainless's point is off putting in terms of what we teach people to live by as OCers, he does have a point in the sense that the sort of person who aggressively postures against someone with firearms will have a strong tendency to be impulsive and in fact dangerous in a conflict situation. In fact, much of this revolves around their own insecurities in many cases, because they know they lack impulse control, and for one reason or another wish to project that on everyone.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Yep, so please let the mods/admins decide and leave my thread alone.

    Sharkey, thanks for sticking around. I generally appreciate when people from out of state take the time to care about what we're doing.

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