'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm Meet

Evil Creamsicle · Jan 8, 2013

MLive said:
England, who is president of the South Hill Neighborhood Association, attended the Dec. 18 City Commission meeting to speak about a proposed assessment to fund the new Pleasant Park. During the meeting, two members of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. spoke to the commission about a city firearms ordinance they believe conflicts with state law.

In the hallway outside the City Hall meeting room, England chided the men - Tom Lambert and Phillip Hofmeister, the president of Michigan Open Carry – for bearing arms in the chambers.

Read the rest of this disgusting garbage here!

Phil, did you hear about this?

MikeTheGreek · Jan 8, 2013

Evil Creamsicle said:
Read the rest of this disgusting garbage here!

Phil, did you hear about this?

What in the F**k. Are you kidding me? Good Citizenship award to someone trying to stop a person from doing something perfectly legal? Oh, yes, America, you have reached a new low.

FreeInAZ · Jan 8, 2013

Well not trying to be harsh here. The bad guys who read mlive now know its easy pickings at the old folks homes. So be it. Oh mr line cook you are so brave as to gripe at law abiding citizens that you clearly were not afraid of because you knew they would not cap your fat a$$. Here's your award for dashing freedom.

I would love to see this guy go down to the ghetto to do the same and see what award he gets then.

sharkey · Jan 8, 2013

Talk about blasphemy or bastardization.

As if being a good citizen by standing against rights was bad enough we have this;

“When you have small children there (at the meeting) and we just had a gun incident (in Newtown, Conn.), I think they were not being good citizens at all because they didn’t stop to think about the effect they were having on somebody else,” said Snow, a retired high school teacher who uses the We The People curriculum in the retirement home class.

SpringerXDacp · Jan 8, 2013

“I was absolutely blown away that in this country we can have a meeting like that in government chambers where someone can walk in with a gun strapped to their hip openly,” he said. “I couldn’t hold my tongue.

If it helps with an ED crisis, as opposed to medication, hell...why not eh?

MikeTheGreek · Jan 8, 2013

sharkey said:
Talk about blasphemy or bastardization.

As if being a good citizen by standing against rights was bad enough we have this;

Clearly they are not being good citizens by carrying firearms to protect themselves, and the people around them, including those small chidren.

In my book, that's actually the exact definition of a good citizen.

FreeInAZ · Jan 8, 2013

The fact that Grand Rapids allowed this to be done in a official city meeting speaks volumes. I hope many, many OC events come their way in the future.

SpringerXDacp · Jan 8, 2013

BoiledFrogs said:
If he was intimidated by the MWAG, then he would not have confronted them to begin with. It is in general, a bad idea to pick a fight with an armed man, especially concerning his passion issues. The fact that nothing happened to him is proof that his beliefs and concerns are inaccurate, misguided, and unfounded.

This is not exactly the message we've been attempting to convey here, and elsewhere, for the 6 or 7 years. While your premise is accurate in regards to potential badguys, this mindset has no bearing for any attempt to desensitize the masses.

sharkey · Jan 8, 2013

sharkey said:
Talk about blasphemy or bastardization.

As if being a good citizen by standing against rights was bad enough we have this;

“When you have small children there (at the meeting) and we just had a gun incident (in Newtown, Conn.), I think they were not being good citizens at all because they didn’t stop to think about the effect they were having on somebody else,” said Snow, a retired high school teacher who uses the We The People curriculum in the retirement home class.

Click to expand...

This is in the curriculum she teaches.

http://gresyn0.100webspace.net/lessons/download.php?file=byrd1to2scrn.pdf

Sometimes people use power but they do not
have the right to do so. A school bully might
tell you to leave the school yard. Robbers might
tell you to give them money. They do not have
the right to make you do these things. They use
power without authority. This means using
power without having the right to do so.

FreeInAZ · Jan 8, 2013

Well of course they were being bullied. How dare common citizens ask officials in power to obey the law!

skidmark · Jan 8, 2013

Sometimes people use power but they do not
have the right to do so. A school bully might
tell you to leave the school yard. Robbers might
tell you to give them money. They do not have
the right to make you do these things. They use
power without authority. This means using
power without having the right to do so.

http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

...

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

People do things they do not have the authority to do, or the right to do, all the time. Saying they do not have the authority or the right has never in the past stopped them, and it will never in the future stop them.

When I have as much, or more force than you, I can stop you from doing things you do not have the authority or the right to do. Without that force, all I can do is try to persuade you.

These folks (anti-gun rights) do not want to reason with us. They want to force us to do what they want. That is why they will get all uyp in the face of someone with a gun on their hip and rant, rave, and call them everything but an angel of G_d. I am convinced that they know we have the self-control, restraint and will not to respond to their use of force with our own use of force. One of these days one of them will cross the line from merely frothing at the mouth in our face to the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. At that time they will discover that their mis-step is irrecoverable.

stay safe.

sharkey · Jan 8, 2013

Over analysis. My point was this is the subject she teaches these seniors. :banghead:

skidmark said:
http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/

People do things they do not have the authority to do, or the right to do, all the time. Saying they do not have the authority or the right has never in the past stopped them, and it will never in the future stop them.

When I have as much, or more force than you, I can stop you from doing things you do not have the authority or the right to do. Without that force, all I can do is try to persuade you.

These folks (anti-gun rights) do not want to reason with us. They want to force us to do what they want. That is why they will get all uyp in the face of someone with a gun on their hip and rant, rave, and call them everything but an angel of G_d. I am convinced that they know we have the self-control, restraint and will not to respond to their use of force with our own use of force. One of these days one of them will cross the line from merely frothing at the mouth in our face to the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. At that time they will discover that their mis-step is irrecoverable.

stay safe.

Shadow Bear · Jan 8, 2013

sharkey said:
Over analysis. My point was this is the subject she teaches these seniors. :banghead:

Apparently, they are elderly immigrants; otherwise, they would see the fallacy.....

wolverine1856 · Jan 8, 2013

BoiledFrogs said:
If he was intimidated by the MWAG, then he would not have confronted them to begin with. It is in general, a bad idea to pick a fight with an armed man, especially concerning his passion issues. The fact that nothing happened to him is proof that his beliefs and concerns are inaccurate, misguided, and unfounded.

I see you are back to"helping the cause" as you posted the same comment on the Mlive website under Neil. I agree with alot of what you have to say, but other times you just say the dumbest ****. :banghead:Thanks!

Michigander · Jan 8, 2013

SpringerXDacp said:
This is not exactly the message we've been attempting to convey here, and elsewhere, for the 6 or 7 years. While your premise is accurate in regards to potential badguys, this mindset has no bearing for any attempt to desensitize the masses.

While stainless's point is off putting in terms of what we teach people to live by as OCers, he does have a point in the sense that the sort of person who aggressively postures against someone with firearms will have a strong tendency to be impulsive and in fact dangerous in a conflict situation. In fact, much of this revolves around their own insecurities in many cases, because they know they lack impulse control, and for one reason or another wish to project that on everyone.

While I reserve the right to be wrong about this gentleman, the odds based on my experiences point towards him being a loose cannon so to speak.

FreeInAZ · Jan 8, 2013

Michigander said:
While stainless's point is off putting in terms of what we teach people to live by as OCers, he does have a point in the sense that the sort of person who aggressively postures against someone with firearms will have a strong tendency to be impulsive and in fact dangerous in a conflict situation. In fact, much of this revolves around their own insecurities in many cases, because they know they lack impulse control, and for one reason or another wish to project that on everyone.

While I reserve the right to be wrong about this gentleman, the odds based on my experiences point towards him being a loose cannon so to speak.

Yep. Phil is lucky this guy didn't whip out one of those large wooden spoons he uses to serve mush up at the old farts home. Phil could have gotten splinters in his melon!

Citizen · Jan 8, 2013

Evil Creamsicle said:
Read the rest of this disgusting garbage here!

Phil, did you hear about this?

Phfft.

This stuff is too easy to demolish. Just ridicule the Board and England.

What rights are they going to attack next? Is the Board going to hand out awards for people who denigrate the First Amendment?

Effect on others? The gun doesn't emit fear waves. If someone is nervous its because of their own ideas about guns?

Etc, etc, etc.

Michigander · Jan 8, 2013

FreeInAZ said:
Yep. Phil is lucky this guy didn't whip out one of those large wooden spoons he uses to serve mush up at the old farts home. Phil could have gotten splinters in his melon!

I wasn't suggesting that anyone was in any danger at all, rather I was saying that the circumstance paints this guy to be a bit nuts, and not someone I could see awarding.

Michigander · Jan 8, 2013

Citizen said:
If someone is nervous its because of their own ideas about guns?

100%, at least as long as the carry in question is safe and legal.

Which brings back the point that those who get freaked out anyway, and on top of that act on that fear with posturing, tend to be mentally unstable, more or less.

FreeInAZ · Jan 8, 2013

Michigander said:
I wasn't suggesting that anyone was in any danger at all, rather I was saying that the circumstance paints this guy to be a bit nuts, and not someone I could see awarding.

I know. I was going for a laugh in the cheap seats. Thanks for squashing that. Sheeez talk about a tough crowd!

'Good citizenship' award given for chiding MOC members at Grand Rapids City Comm Meet

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