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Thread: Amazon donates $30000 to anti-gun propaganda

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Amazon donates $30000 to anti-gun propaganda


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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    personally I think these gun buyback programs that are VOLUNTARY are a great idea. it typically gets a lot of ILLEGAL weapons off the street. mainly because it is the only way to get rid of an illegal weapon without facing any form of criminal charges and also gets some form of valuable return.

    so I commend Amazon for donating so much to something like this.

    which also makes me want to state that the title of this thread is very misleading: amazon didn't donate to an anti-gun propaganda; they donated to an event proven to have a big impact on ILLEGAL guns

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    personally I think these gun buyback programs that are VOLUNTARY are a great idea. it typically gets a lot of ILLEGAL weapons off the street. mainly because it is the only way to get rid of an illegal weapon without facing any form of criminal charges and also gets some form of valuable return.

    so I commend Amazon for donating so much to something like this.

    which also makes me want to state that the title of this thread is very misleading: amazon didn't donate to an anti-gun propaganda; they donated to an event proven to have a big impact on ILLEGAL guns
    What's an illegal gun?

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    I will be there with cash in hand and a pistol on my hip.
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    - need to have checks and balances...

    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    personally I think these gun buyback programs that are VOLUNTARY are a great idea. it typically gets a lot of ILLEGAL weapons off the street. mainly because it is the only way to get rid of an illegal weapon without facing any form of criminal charges and also gets some form of valuable return.

    so I commend Amazon for donating so much to something like this.

    which also makes me want to state that the title of this thread is very misleading: amazon didn't donate to an anti-gun propaganda; they donated to an event proven to have a big impact on ILLEGAL guns
    - Except when it's your/my gun that they stole from your/my house/car that they are using to turn in??

    - I personally think that the ones running the programs need to be required to run every single serial number (with over watch from a pro-gun entity) in an effort to ensure the gun can be returned to the rightful owner if stolen. Otherwise the it might be your gun, or mine, and thats seriously wrong.
    Last edited by Batousaii; 01-09-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    - Except when it's your/my gun that they stole from your/my house/car that they are using to turn in??
    - I personally think that the ones running the programs need to be required to run every single serial number (with over watch from a pro-gun entity) in an effort to ensure the gun can be returned to the rightful owner if stolen. Otherwise the it might be your gun, or mine, and thats seriously wrong.
    I believe they announced they would run the numbers for stolens, but they did not plan to detain anyone or take photos. That said, If I was them, as they say, I would have a camera across the street an get imagery on every person turning in a weapon. But hey, thats just me...........
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    What's an illegal gun?
    One that has been convicted of a felony?

    JMHO gun buybacks are government fencing operations to buy stolen guns. The outcome is the same thief steals gun, takes it to fence or buyback program, goes home laughing his backside off.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-09-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    - Except when it's your/my gun that they stole from your/my house/car that they are using to turn in??

    - I personally think that the ones running the programs need to be required to run every single serial number (with over watch from a pro-gun entity) in an effort to ensure the gun can be returned to the rightful owner if stolen. Otherwise the it might be your gun, or mine, and thats seriously wrong.
    They are checking for serial numbers and will return stolen guns to thier rightful owners if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    What's an illegal gun?
    An assault weapon?

    I actually like this idea because it does no harm to the 2nd Amendment and lets those anti's feel better about not really doing anything at all.

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    Amazon donates $30000 to anti-gun propaganda

    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    What's an illegal gun?
    All of them. After all, every one of them has a number printed on it, and they all have been "booked." People routinely put locks on them and imprison them in small and confining spaces, albeit made of leather or plastic, not concrete and iron.

    What a bunch of thugs!


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    Amazon donates $30000 to anti-gun propaganda

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    fuq
    My acronym! I feel so proud.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    One that has been convicted of a felony?

    JMHO gun buybacks are government fencing operations to buy stolen guns. The outcome is the same thief steals gun, takes it to fence or buyback program, goes home laughing his backside off.
    I always thought it was evidence destruction operation. afterall, After I whack a soldato in a rival family, I don't want to burn for it, so I turn in the murder piece, get 100 bucks for beer and steaks to celebrate a successful "nap-time with the fishes" and the ballistics tying me to the crime are melted down for good and I'm in the clear. Hehehe

    Note: this is a fictional account meant to outline the stupidity of gun-buyback programs, the narrative is fictional and any resemblence to real life acts or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    personally I think these gun buyback programs that are VOLUNTARY are a great idea. it typically gets a lot of ILLEGAL weapons off the street. mainly because it is the only way to get rid of an illegal weapon without facing any form of criminal charges and also gets some form of valuable return.

    so I commend Amazon for donating so much to something like this.

    which also makes me want to state that the title of this thread is very misleading: amazon didn't donate to an anti-gun propaganda; they donated to an event proven to have a big impact on ILLEGAL guns


    Even ceasefire says gun buybacks are of little value, this is from the antis.

    A gun buyback is a feel good show, which makes it propaganda.

    I can't find the link I read yesterday where even ceasefire said they are ineffective (it was in an article on one of the many buybacks going on across the country) but I think I've provided enough evidence to make my case.

    http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-...effectiveness/

    But Jon Vernick, professor at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, said that although the programs are popular there's no evidence linking them to a reduction in street crime.
    http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...gun_buyba.html
    Newark Police Director Samuel DeMaio said that city has not had a buyback since 2009.
    With the city paying $200 per gun, he argued that most of the weapons the programs recover in Newark come from out-of-state residents looking to turn a profit, or older residents disposing of weapons long stowed away.
    A 2004 report by the National Academies’ Committee on Law and Justice backs up DeMaio’s contentions.
    According to the report’s authors, “those who are either using guns to carry out crimes or as protection in the course of engaging in other illegal activities, such as drug selling, have actively acquired their guns and are unlikely to want to participate in such programs.”
    According to this study they are effective when only certain guns are accepted, it's compulsary and along side a ban.

    http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf

    Because the Australian buyback was both targeted at firearms that
    police and the government considered high risk and that had been relatively
    unregulated previously, and because the buyback was accompanied by a ban
    and other tightening of firearm regulations, we do not think it is reasonable
    to describe the program as having removed primarily low-risk weapons
    from the Australian community. This distinguishes it from programs in
    the United States, where such a judgment appears more reasonable.
    He notes three reasons why gun buybacks in particular would not
    be expected to be effective: (1) the guns surrendered are those least likely
    to be used in crimes because they are surrendered voluntarily; (2)
    replacement guns are easily obtained; and (3) the typical buyback is
    relatively small in scale. We describe the NFA in the next section, but to
    anticipate these arguments: we argue that none of these factors are
    relevant to the Australian buyback; since the NFA involved a large-scale
    buyback of firearms, the buyback was compulsory in the sense that
    retaining possession of the firearms was illegal, and the guns could not be
    easily replaced with similar firearms.
    This article is full of studies and citations showing they are not effective, too many for me to list here but I will quote one paragraph. They have the full articles they cited if you go to the link.

    http://www.popcenter.org/problems/gun_violence/3

    Implementing gun buyback programs. Gun buyback programs seek to reduce gun violence by reducing gun ownership. They typically offer money, goods, or services in exchange for firearms, and they usually offer amnesty and anonymity to those who exchange them. While police may check whether a returned gun was used in a crime, they do not use their findings to pursue the person who returned it. Unfortunately, evaluations have shown that gun buyback programs have no observable effect on either gun crime or gun-related injury rates.51 They do not directly target guns that are highly likely to be used in violence,52 and the characteristics of the guns collected reveal little overlap between crime guns and buyback guns.53 While gun buyback programs are not effective in reducing serious gun crime, police departments should not be discouraged from launching problem-oriented attacks on the illegal sources of guns for criminals.54 A thorough discussion of the prospects of disrupting illegal gun markets is beyond the scope of this guide. However, police departments interested in addressing the illegal supply of guns to criminals should consult the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives website, at www.atf.gov, and the Justice Department’s Project Safe Neighborhoods website, at www.psn.gov.
    Last edited by sharkey; 01-09-2013 at 06:55 PM.

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    If I ever hear of a gun buy-back in this area, I'm buying every $50(or less) Saturday Night Special, Marlin 60, and Mosin-Nagant I can get my hands on and turning them into a pile of cash that I'll then spend on more guns and ammo. I'll maybe even stand across the street and offer $200 on every old S&W and Colt revolver I see going up to be melted.

    Sounds like a great plant to me

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    They are checking for serial numbers and will return stolen guns to thier rightful owners if possible.
    if this is the case, then +1 more.

    what is an illegal gun? the only illegal gun would be one where the serial is altered/removed, or has no serial# at all. afterall, all guns at some point were legal and legally purchased.

    what I meant by getting illegal guns off the street should actually be better worded as: lower the number of guns possessed by people not legally capable of possessing a gun, and/or removing guns from the street that were purchased/sold illegally and/or stolen from their rightful lawful owner

    Sharkey, thank you for your post
    Last edited by motoxmann; 01-09-2013 at 06:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    if this is the case, then +1 more.

    what is an illegal gun? the only illegal gun would be one where the serial is altered/removed, or has no serial# at all. afterall, all guns at some point were legal and legally purchased.

    what I meant by getting illegal guns off the street should actually be better worded as: lower the number of guns possessed by people not legally capable of possessing a gun, and/or removing guns from the street that were purchased/sold illegally and/or stolen from their rightful lawful owner

    Sharkey, thank you for your post
    Guns without serial numbers are legal, as long as they started out that way. There is no evidence to support that gun buy backs make any impact on taking guns off the streets. They end up buying useless junk, and stolen guns that may not have been stolen if not for the programs. Plus to add insult to injury they give money to the asswipes that stole the guns to begin with.
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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Opinions as to my assertion that a gun show is defacto anti-gun?

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Guns without serial numbers are legal, as long as they started out that way. There is no evidence to support that gun buy backs make any impact on taking guns off the streets. They end up buying useless junk, and stolen guns that may not have been stolen if not for the programs. Plus to add insult to injury they give money to the asswipes that stole the guns to begin with.
    very true. this is why I like debates and counter-points and such. I never actually looked at it this way until reading these posts today. I for one rather enjoy being proven wrong at times, it means I learned something, and was capable of accepting an opinion different than my own, or facts that I was previously unaware of

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    Sounds like a great way for murderers to ditch the murder weapon.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    My wife works for Amazon and she received an email from a supervisor this morning addressing this issue. I can't share the email because she received it through an internal email (plus it's a "protected email" that employees are forbidden to share.) But basically it said if they get a call from a pro-gun rights person to tell the caller that their concerns have been noted and forwarded to the appropriate person.

    But guess what??? They won't be. It's a lie. They provided no forms and didn't advise the employees of who the "appropriate person" is. In short, they directed their employees to lie to the pro-gunner to pacify them. Your concerns to Amazon will fall on deaf ears.....unless of course you are an anti..
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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    My wife works for Amazon and she received an email from a supervisor this morning addressing this issue. I can't share the email because she received it through an internal email (plus it's a "protected email" that employees are forbidden to share.) But basically it said if they get a call from a pro-gun rights person to tell the caller that their concerns have been noted and forwarded to the appropriate person.

    But guess what??? They won't be. It's a lie. They provided no forms and didn't advise the employees of who the "appropriate person" is. In short, they directed their employees to lie to the pro-gunner to pacify them. Your concerns to Amazon will fall on deaf ears.....unless of course you are an anti..
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    Regarding returning buy-back firearms to their rightful owners if stolen, I came across this in the Kentucky Revised Statutes when looking for something else this morning.

    www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/025.PDF

    237.025 Requirements for local gun buy-back programs.
    (1) Each law enforcement agency of state, county, urban-county, charter county, or city government or any other law enforcement agency that participates in a "gun buy- back program" or other program in which firearms or ammunition are purchased or surrendered for the purpose of destruction shall assure that:
    (a) The serial number of each firearm that is purchased or surrendered to the program is checked against local, state, and federal records of stolen firearms and, if it is found that the firearm is a stolen firearm, that the firearm is not destroyed without the written permission of the lawful owner thereof and that if the lawful owner of the firearm does not give written permission for the firearm to be destroyed, that the firearm is returned to its lawful owner;
    (b) If it is determined that a firearm that is purchased by, or surrendered to the "gun buy-back program" is stolen, that the law enforcement makes an effort to arrest the thief or any person who possessed the firearm knowing it was stolen; and
    (c) Prior to the destruction of any firearm that is purchased or surrendered, that a written determination is made as to whether the firearm may have been used in a crime, and that if it is determined that the firearm probably was used in a crime, that it is retained for evidence, and if it is determined that the firearm probably was not used in a crime, if the firearm is a rifled firearm, that a fired bullet and fired cartridge case is retained for possible use as evidence and that if the firearm is a smooth bore firearm, that a fired cartridge case is retained for possible use as evidence.
    (2) Prior to returning a stolen firearm to a lawful owner, the law enforcement agency
    shall determine whether or not the lawful owner is eligible to possess a firearm under federal law. If the lawful owner of the firearm is ineligible to possess a firearm under federal law, the law enforcement agency may destroy the firearm after compliance with subsection (1)(c) of this section.
    Of course, this only applies to Kentucky and not to every other state, but I'm glad to see that Kentucky requires by law that the guns also be used(although I'm not crazy about the state police keeping ballistics evidence on it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    My wife works for Amazon and she received an email from a supervisor this morning addressing this issue. I can't share the email because she received it through an internal email (plus it's a "protected email" that employees are forbidden to share.) But basically it said if they get a call from a pro-gun rights person to tell the caller that their concerns have been noted and forwarded to the appropriate person.

    But guess what??? They won't be. It's a lie. They provided no forms and didn't advise the employees of who the "appropriate person" is. In short, they directed their employees to lie to the pro-gunner to pacify them. Your concerns to Amazon will fall on deaf ears.....unless of course you are an anti..
    That would have been me, I was planning on calling them on Monday. I/we buy a lot of stuff from Amazon. I will make no more purchases from Amazon if they have donated the gift cards. If they sold them that is a different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    They are checking for serial numbers and will return stolen guns to thier rightful owners if possible.
    .
    ROFL .... like this would EVAR happen ...

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    That would have been me, I was planning on calling them on Monday. I/we buy a lot of stuff from Amazon. I will make no more purchases from Amazon if they have donated the gift cards. If they sold them that is a different story.
    I ask her what she would do if she received a call on this matter (she hasn't yet.) She said they (Amazon) gave them no options on what to do other than listen, lie, hang up and forget about it. She was pretty upset considering that she is pro 2A as well, but she is in one of those situations about not biting the hand that feeds ya
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