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Thread: After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

  1. #1
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    So after more than three years of daily OC I finally had an encounter (on 3 Jan) with law enforcement due to the OC. Had I not been walking with a long gun carrier I'm guessing they never would have "stopped by". On the bright side, it was a consensual encounter rather than a detainment and when I refused to ID myself they dropped the issue without batting an eye. Carrying "sterile" served no purpose.

    Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVhZwtrv3UY
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Do you happen to have a citation on the fact that police officers can't run a license plate solely to check a person's name?

  3. #3
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Do you happen to have a citation on the fact that police officers can't run a license plate solely to check a person's name?
    SHORT ANSWER: No....but read on

    It is a complicated legal issue. Generally, police can run your plates for any legitimate law enforcement purpose. Therein lies the key. If police approach me while I'm on foot while I am conducting myself in a legal manner and I refuse to engage them in a consensual conversation (where they are going to try to find something with which to justify escalating to a detention), to then stalk me until I enter my vehicle is not a legitimate law enforcement purpose.....remember, I am conducting myself lawfully and they have not been able to find or manufacture RAS. With no RAS that I have done anything wrong, remember RAS is nothing more than reasonable suspicion that they can articulate to the court, the police would be conducting harassment, intimidation, and/or other unlawful action under color of authority.

    Let's consider a lawful activity other than open carry. Let's say Officer Fife spots a particularly alluring member of the opposite gender. This individual is breaking no laws but Officer Fife wants her name and address in hopes of getting a date. Officer Fife approaches said individual who declines to talk with the officer. Rebuked and with his feelings hurt (or not) Officer Fife then follows the individual until they enter a vehicle at which time he runs the plates and obtains a name, address, date of birth, etc.

    Officer Fife has violated the law in most states.

    Now simple substitute the law abiding activity of exercising your second amendment for being the object of Officer Fife's desires. The situation does not change, only the lawful activity, and so the action is still an abuse of authority under color of law.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  4. #4
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Well, cops are a little more "sensitive" regarding evil black rifles these days. Thanks for the post.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  5. #5
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Well, cops are a little more "sensitive" regarding evil black rifles these days. Thanks for the post.
    Kind of silly since my pistol fires the same caliber round and has a high capacity mag. Plus two spares. I call it my "assault pistol"....and yes, it's black.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Re: After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    I call it my "assault pistol"....and yes, it's black.
    Last edited by Cremator75; 01-14-2013 at 01:20 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Yes, I shared that on FB earlier today (maybe last night). I thought it was an interesting way to look at it.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Re: After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Do you happen to have a citation on the fact that police officers can't run a license plate solely to check a person's name?
    The courts have ruled that you do not have an expectation of privacy when it comes to your license plate and the information that law enforcement can gather from it.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  9. #9
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    I had this happen to me today when I went to Safeway. I drove there put my .45 in my holster walked in grabbed some whine chips and some dip. As I walked to the register the cop was waiting for me. I payed and as I picked up my bags he started questioning me I kept silent... After he was quiet for a while I asked if I was being detained he said no I walked to my (girlfriends car) car. He followed. I put my gun on the back seat with my bags and got in pulled out and got pulled over.. I watched him wait for me lol. I showed him my license got some "advice" about me OC a gun in public with all that's happened lately. After he blew some steam at me I drove away and laughed about it.


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  10. #10
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityk9cop View Post
    The courts have ruled that you do not have an expectation of privacy when it comes to your license plate and the information that law enforcement can gather from it.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    That is not absolute. If it were, police wouldn't get in trouble for running the plates of a cute gal (or guy). In general yes, but they must show a public interest is served. Running the plates of an INDIVIDUAL because you don't like his lawful activity is dangerous constitutional ground. Running the plates of an individual under a lawful investigation, or running the plates of EVERYONE in a parking lot is a different matter.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimusmaximus View Post
    I had this happen to me today when I went to Safeway. I drove there put my .45 in my holster walked in grabbed some whine chips and some dip. As I walked to the register the cop was waiting for me. I payed and as I picked up my bags he started questioning me I kept silent... After he was quiet for a while I asked if I was being detained he said no I walked to my (girlfriends car) car. He followed. I put my gun on the back seat with my bags and got in pulled out and got pulled over.. I watched him wait for me lol. I showed him my license got some "advice" about me OC a gun in public with all that's happened lately. After he blew some steam at me I drove away and laughed about it.

    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-
    Any recordings?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    I wish I did but it was a quick trip I really didn't think anyone would say anything but you can bet I am coffee in one hand and my camcorder in the other from no on


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  13. #13
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    Re: After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    That is not absolute. If it were, police wouldn't get in trouble for running the plates of a cute gal (or guy). In general yes, but they must show a public interest is served. Running the plates of an INDIVIDUAL because you don't like his lawful activity is dangerous constitutional ground. Running the plates of an individual under a lawful investigation, or running the plates of EVERYONE in a parking lot is a different matter.
    Of course its not absolute...nothing in life is except taxes. The cute girl is like apples and oranges. Until the courts rule otherwise, intelligence gathering even during totally legal activities is permissive. You may not like it but it does not change the current court standing.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  14. #14
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    That is not absolute. If it were, police wouldn't get in trouble for running the plates of a cute gal (or guy). In general yes, but they must show a public interest is served. Running the plates of an INDIVIDUAL because you don't like his lawful activity is dangerous constitutional ground. Running the plates of an individual under a lawful investigation, or running the plates of EVERYONE in a parking lot is a different matter.
    I think it would be a hard road to make it stick. The license plate is visible to the public, and the property of the state. Checking one or all plates seems to be irrelevant. It would be the same as complaining that the police checked your driver's license that you had pinned to the front of your shirt.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimusmaximus View Post
    I had this happen to me today when I went to Safeway. I drove there put my .45 in my holster walked in grabbed some whine chips and some dip. As I walked to the register the cop was waiting for me. I payed and as I picked up my bags he started questioning me I kept silent... After he was quiet for a while I asked if I was being detained he said no I walked to my (girlfriends car) car. He followed. I put my gun on the back seat with my bags and got in pulled out and got pulled over.. I watched him wait for me lol. I showed him my license got some "advice" about me OC a gun in public with all that's happened lately. After he blew some steam at me I drove away and laughed about it.


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-
    Damn, I'd have tried my best to get someone else to come pick me up just to deny them the satisfaction. So what was his stated reason for pulling you over? If he didn't articulate a lawful reason for pulling you over I'd file an Open Records request for the contact info (officers activity report, his radio traffic to dispatch regarding pulling you (you know he almost assuredly ran your plate and license). Then file a complaint unless he covered his tracks in the record. The police can not lawfully just pull you over because they don't like your lawful activity.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    So when we made contact from traffic stop he asked did I know how fast I was goin.. I said 15 cause its a parking lot. He told me I looked like I was DUI. Probly cause I was holding a 32oz monster (looks like beer can) and after seeing it was an energy drink he let me on my way after probing where when who how and what my favorite color was.. I already am on getting recordings and taking steps but I don't think it will prove much..


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimusmaximus View Post
    So when we made contact from traffic stop he asked did I know how fast I was goin.. I said 15 cause its a parking lot. He told me I looked like I was DUI. Probly cause I was holding a 32oz monster (looks like beer can) and after seeing it was an energy drink he let me on my way after probing where when who how and what my favorite color was.. I already am on getting recordings and taking steps but I don't think it will prove much..
    So after he observed you in person for several minutes, where you asserted your right to remain silent, questioned him if you were detained, purchased your groceries, handled your firearm, after all that, he only came to the conclusion that you were drunk after you drove off at the speed limit. Makes perfect sense to me!

  18. #18
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    I know right?! I had laughed on my way home.. But now for these bloopers I take my camera everywhere


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  19. #19
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattimusmaximus View Post
    So when we made contact from traffic stop he asked did I know how fast I was goin.. I said 15 cause its a parking lot. He told me I looked like I was DUI. Probly cause I was holding a 32oz monster (looks like beer can) and after seeing it was an energy drink he let me on my way after probing where when who how and what my favorite color was.. I already am on getting recordings and taking steps but I don't think it will prove much..


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-
    He pulled you over IN the parking lot and asked if you knew how fast you were going? Ummm....private property....nt speed limit that I know of. And I agree with the previous poster about the DUI comment after having talked with you.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "Sir, I pulled you over because it looked like you were going excessively fast. Do you know how fast you were going?"
    "I dunno... about I hunnert, I guess."
    "Have you had anything to drink tonight?"
    "I've been drinking like a fish, you wanna sip?"
    "May I see your license and registration?"
    "Nope, I don't have either on me, I didn't think they were required on private property."

    I was coming out of Publix grocery to find a Forsyth County Sheriff's car waiting for me in the parking lot once. They slowly cruised behind me as I was pushing my cart to my car. Funny thing about getting old, you forget where your car is occasionally. I must've walked up and down four, maybe five rows of cars with the remote in my hand and pointing at various cars in the lot. Once I went between two cars to switch rows because I Thought I has spotted my car. (Sigh) Turns out the row I had first walked down was the right one, and I was just a 'mite bit confuzzled' for the 15-minutes FSCO was following me.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-17-2013 at 10:54 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    After three years OC I finally had an OC related police interaction (with A/V)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    "Sir, I pulled you over because it looked like you were going excessively fast. Do you know how fast you were going?"
    "I dunno... about I hunnert, I guess."
    "Have you had anything to drink tonight?"
    "I've been drinking like a fish, you wanna sip?"
    "May I see your license and registration?"
    "Nope, I don't have either on me, I didn't think they were required on private property."

    I was coming out of Publix grocery to find a Forsyth County Sheriff's car waiting for me in the parking lot once. They slowly cruised behind me as I was pushing my cart to my car. Funny thing about getting old, you forget where your car is occasionally. I must've walked up and down four, maybe five rows of cars with the remote in my hand and pointing at various cars in the lot. Once I went between two cars to switch rows because I Thought I has spotted my car. (Sigh) Turns out the row I had first walked down was the right one, and I was just a 'mite bit confuzzled' for the 15-minutes FSCO was following me.
    And they didn't ask if u needed help? Lol confused citizen (OC?) walking around parking lot pointing at cars for 15min and they just followed the entire time..


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Dementia is not necessarily a sign of a citizen with a dangerous mental condition. In fact, LEA are specifically trained to just follow seasoned citizens around for a while to be sure that they find their car. The deputies accomplished their task and the seasoned citizen found his car safely.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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