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Thread: LEO Ran My Serial Number!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Ok so a few hours ago I was involved in a car accident. Not my fault, the other driver (who also had a suspended license) sideswiped me. I called 911 and waited for the police to arrive to do an accident report.

    After the police arrived, I mentioned that my back was hurting a bit, so he called for EMS. When they arrived, the police officer suggested that I disarm, which I completely understand because I may have had to go to the hospital. I said ok, and he removed my sidearm from the holster (I would have suggested that he completely remove the entire paddle, but he was too quick for me.) I told him just to put it in my glove compartment, and he said ok.

    As I watched, he took my sidearm back to his car and I saw him writing. He then put my ammo in the door holder, the magazine in the lower compartment on my door, and my unloaded pistol in the glove compartment. After we had sorted out that I was going to not go to the hospital, I asked him politely if he had run my numbers. He said that he had not, but was planning to, then asked me why I was asking. I told him I didn't think it was necessary, to which he replied that every gun he comes across, he runs.

    He was very polite and professional in demeanor, but I didn't really care for how he handled disarming me.

    And for those of you wondering, I'm doing fine right now, and, barring any terrible pain tomorrow, I will still be at the breakfast in Richmond.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  2. #2
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    Next time say " I do not consent to any searches of myself or my property".. that should stop him from running it. There is not many people I know that would wear a stolen gun in a holster.. I am respectful to police but I do not give them an inch. If they ask for my ID I respond " I am not legally obligated to give you ID unless I am suspected of committing a crime, what crime do you suspect me of committing?". Some would disagree and simply hand it over but I find out rights are being more and more tramped upon. Hope you feel better and I am sorry about the accident!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Hope you're doing OK Eddy.
    We'll talk about it when we see each other.

    That was a tough situation to avoid. You can FOIA the information and file a complaint.

    Not much will come of filing the complaint except it goes in the officer's file. It's called jacket stuffing.

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    Note to self: If the cop suggests disarming, and I agree to disarm, I will be locking the gun in the glove box/trunk, etc. But, only at that point that its decided I am going to the hospital. Not just because EMS is rolling up. Assuming the car isn't totaled or being towed.
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-11-2013 at 10:57 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Yeah. Originally, I thought I would take the ride to go get checked out, but decided not to. So that is what happened.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hmmm - no suspicion of a crime, not for officer safety. Must have been fishing out of season and w/o a license too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    well if you said OK to a vehicle search then they can take your seats out, etc. and leave them on the side of the road.

    OP has learned a lesson ... maybe never consent ... does not sound like you were unable to take care of the weapon yourself ... maybe I'm wrong?

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    well if you said OK to a vehicle search then they can take your seats out, etc. and leave them on the side of the road.

    OP has learned a lesson ... maybe never consent ... does not sound like you were unable to take care of the weapon yourself ... maybe I'm wrong?
    The OP is a pretty decent fellow and is learning fast.

  9. #9
    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Hope you feel ok in the morning..

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Ok so a few hours ago I was involved in a car accident. Not my fault, the other driver (who also had a suspended license) sideswiped me. I called 911 and waited for the police to arrive to do an accident report.

    After the police arrived, I mentioned that my back was hurting a bit, so he called for EMS. When they arrived, the police officer suggested that I disarm, which I completely understand because I may have had to go to the hospital. I said ok, and he removed my sidearm from the holster (I would have suggested that he completely remove the entire paddle, but he was too quick for me.) I told him just to put it in my glove compartment, and he said ok.

    As I watched, he took my sidearm back to his car and I saw him writing. He then put my ammo in the door holder, the magazine in the lower compartment on my door, and my unloaded pistol in the glove compartment. After we had sorted out that I was going to not go to the hospital, I asked him politely if he had run my numbers. He said that he had not, but was planning to, then asked me why I was asking. I told him I didn't think it was necessary, to which he replied that every gun he comes across, he runs.

    He was very polite and professional in demeanor, but I didn't really care for how he handled disarming me.

    And for those of you wondering, I'm doing fine right now, and, barring any terrible pain tomorrow, I will still be at the breakfast in Richmond.
    The pain is usually a delayed arrival. Hope you have a comfortable couch to lay on to recover and watch the games.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    well if you said OK to a vehicle search then they can take your seats out, etc. and leave them on the side of the road.

    OP has learned a lesson ... maybe never consent ... does not sound like you were unable to take care of the weapon yourself ... maybe I'm wrong?
    I said nothing about a vehicular search. If that had happened, the police officer would definitely known my consent was withheld.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Last time I took a ride in a ambulance the paramedics put the firearm in the cabinet. When I got to the hospital the ER locked it in where they keep the drugs. It was handed back to me when I left. IMO there was no need to disarm you unless the paramedics required it.
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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    If you are "walking wounded" tell the cop to keep his hands off your firearm. If you will be taking a ride to the ER to be checked out, while still "walking wounded" you have the option of securing your firearm yourself in your vehicle (but with a BIG caveat), or going to the ER and having hospital security secure it along with your other valuables*.

    If your car is disabled and the towtruck does not arrive until after the big white box with all the colored lights departs with you inside, the cops are entitled (most agencies require) to conduct an inventory search without securing a warrant. It's to protect them from a charge of having stolen your teddy bear and the 250 pounds of pot you had in the back seat. If you wait till the tow arrives, the cops will need a warrant to search. Most times you can talk with the EMS folks and have them wait a few minutes to let the towtruck show up and you get the info on where it will be stored and the driver gets your AAA/insurance info on who is going to pay for the tow.

    *1 - My extensive experience as a passenger in ambulances is that they are cool with you keeping your firearm on you, so long as it does not interfere with their being able to treat you. If it needs to be moved they have ways to store it as opposed to giving it to the cops (which they will do if you are not conscious/competent to decide what to do about it. If they need to remove it to treat you they will turn it over to hospital security, who is supposed to bring a receipt to the ER and either hasnd to you or, if you are not capable of receiving it, place in your treatment chart.

    *2 - My extensive experience with firearms on your person when arriving at an ER is that the nurses will want to put it, still in the holster even iof it means cutting your fancy gun belt, in a personal property bag. If you are "walking wounded" be sure they document this in the treatment notes and document the call to security to take it for safekeeping. You should get a receipt from security, even if they have to leave one in your chart.

    *3 - My extensive experience in riding ambulances to an ER while OCing includes a few rides where all my personal valuables were placed in a white plastic drawstring bag that was placed between my feet, and then in the ER was placed under the ER gurney, all without anybody inventorying it, giving me any receipts, and handing the whole thing back to me on departure from the ER. One such occassion resulted in my firearm arriving with me in my room when I was admitted, and waiting till the next morning until hospital security bothered to show up to store my valuables. The look on the guy's face as we inventoried stuff for the receipt was priceless.

    *4 - (and then I'm done) - if the EMS folks or the ER/hospital folks secure your firearm, it becomes information protected under HIPAA - unless it is evidence of a crime. You will need a knowlegeable attorney to sue the health care provider who released information about your firearm.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  13. #13
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Jeeze. I was indeed walking wounded as you say, and I think that had I known all that, I would have never let him touch it. :/
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  14. #14
    Regular Member MNMGoneShooting's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Jeeze. I was indeed walking wounded as you say, and I think that had I known all that, I would have never let him touch it. :/
    Rarely do I use it, but I have a personal gun lock box in my car. This thread gives me a good inclination to utilize it for this specific scenario. I agree, no consent to searches - verbalized or inferred.

    I'm concerned on these cases where an officer puts his hands on another's loaded firearm without the consent or awareness of the holder, the officer is not under duress, and no crime is in progress.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Jeeze. I was indeed walking wounded as you say, and I think that had I known all that, I would have never let him touch it. :/
    And just how do you think I figured out all that stuff? It did not just pop into my head.

    The good part is that you do learn. (And a lot faster than one of our other "new" members - but we still lurv the big lug no matter how slowly he learns.) (Anhd we do not make fun of you like we do with him.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    And just how do you think I figured out all that stuff? It did not just pop into my head.

    The good part is that you do learn. (And a lot faster than one of our other "new" members - but we still lurv the big lug no matter how slowly he learns.) (Anhd we do not make fun of you like we do with him.)

    stay safe.
    You nailed it skidmark. I am thankful, esanders, that you posted this thread. I have learned a lot from your experience and more about my personal rights.

    I hope you get better soon!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godspel-13 View Post
    You nailed it skidmark. I am thankful, esanders, that you posted this thread. I have learned a lot from your experience and more about my personal rights.

    I hope you get better soon!
    "If you live long enough, you might just learn all the stuff you need to stay alive." (A favorite quote of a certain sargeant.)

    He learned a new sentence this morning. Here's hoping he never has to use it.

    He also learned about User's letter to the police. Go to User's web site and download your own copy. Fill it in. Print off a bunch of copies and stick a copy in your wallet, in your shirt pocket, in your sock, in .. well, you get the idea.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  18. #18
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    EMS providers (at least this one) do NOT like loitering around for potential patients to chit chat with the tow truck driver, etc. My philosophy is either you want to go to the hospital ASAP/when I'm ready to take you, or you do not want to go at all, usually summed up as, "The ambulance is leaving now, will you be on it?" There might be another patient in the ambulance on a backboard who is ready to get moving, or another call holding. In my system, we don't have a busy call volume but neither do we have extra ambulances loitering about. The time I kill on scene for someone to wait is time I will be tied up and out of my service area with no other ambulance manned and available to answer the next call.

    OT: Another favorite of mine is, "Hang up the phone and talk to ME if you are injured. Otherwise we are leaving."

    I'm not sure how possession of a firearm has anything to do with HIPAA, which has to do with personal health care information privacy only.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    EMS providers (at least this one) do NOT like loitering around for potential patients to chit chat with the tow truck driver, etc. My philosophy is either you want to go to the hospital ASAP/when I'm ready to take you, or you do not want to go at all, usually summed up as, "The ambulance is leaving now, will you be on it?" There might be another patient in the ambulance on a backboard who is ready to get moving, or another call holding. In my system, we don't have a busy call volume but neither do we have extra ambulances loitering about. The time I kill on scene for someone to wait is time I will be tied up and out of my service area with no other ambulance manned and available to answer the next call.

    OT: Another favorite of mine is, "Hang up the phone and talk to ME if you are injured. Otherwise we are leaving."

    I'm not sure how possession of a firearm has anything to do with HIPAA, which has to do with personal health care information privacy only.
    Sounds like a collision between competing interests. Cops who want to be extra careful. And, EMT's who don't want to waste time treating hangnails.


    What's your advice for somebody in the OPers situation?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post

    I told him I didn't think it was necessary, to which he replied that every gun he comes across, he runs.
    That's the old "It's policy" rationale, which is disturbing. I wonder if he was trained that way, or he simply does it. Does he also run VIN's on every vehicle he comes across?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    That's the old "It's policy" rationale, which is disturbing. I wonder if he was trained that way, or he simply does it. Does he also run VIN's on every vehicle he comes across?
    I would say don't give them any ideas, but its too late. Various PDs across the country now use license plate readers. Software has advanced to the point where a computer can sort out the license plate number from video image (kinda like us trying to read a "captcha" image), and then compare the license plate number to a database for warrants, etc.

    Police and system manufacturers promote the system as helping catch felons and find stolen cars. Yeah, that's how it always starts. How long do you want to bet it takes before these things are used to seize your car for outstanding parking tickets, being late on paying the property tax on your car, etc., etc. How much longer until they start being used to track your movements?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Oh if only you knew!! Several cities in the hampton roads area already use them for those purposes. So yeah...
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Oh if only you knew!! Several cities in the hampton roads area already use them for those purposes. So yeah...
    Maybe some progressive souls in the General Assembly have had enough of the Surveillance State. For example, HB2012
    A BILL to place a moratorium on the use of drones.

    No state agency or organization having jurisdiction over criminal law enforcement or regulatory violations, including but not limited to the Department of State Police, and no department of law enforcement as defined in 15.2-836 of any city, county, or town or any local agency having jurisdiction over criminal law enforcement or regulatory violations shall utilize an unmanned aircraft system until July 1, 2014.
    A Drone Moratorium. Huh.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    LEO Ran My Serial Number!

    Good. I'm not too keen on the idea of unmanned aircraft flying over my house.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Drones and missles to be continued elsewhere:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...17#post1879717
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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