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Thread: Spokane Sacred Heart lockdown over MWG call.

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    Spokane Sacred Heart lockdown over MWG call.

    Apparently a man was seen " walking around with a semi auto rifle hid under his arm" at Sacred Heart. No word of brandishing or how "hidden" it was under his arm. Reports started 2 hours ago, now the police have surrounded the building.

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Spokane Sacred Heart lockdown over MWG call.

    Another "gun free zone"
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    With a great possibility it is just another one of those pesky Citizens trying to exercise those damm Constitutional Rights. Someone may shoot him for that.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    In that part of town it was probably a bong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solar View Post
    Reports started 2 hours ago, now the police have surrounded the building.
    That was quick ... see we can protect you ... just hold on ... (like they told the folks at the Alamo)

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    New Member here - first post....don't want to start off in the negative, but....

    Somebody firtively walking around with a "military-styled firearm" half-concealed under a coat, especially in that part of Spokane is going to "attract the eye"...SPD are going to be called, and they will respond and investigate - and rightly so...

    We as legals all know and recognize a legitimate carry situation - rifle or handgun - and so does Law Enforcement (for the most part) - but the majority of the public does not, and although I wasn't there, this doesn't seem to be one of those instances...

    Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"!
    Trying to keep his rifle warm, I'm sure. Having a cold stock at the range, I don't know how the rest of you feel.

    Welcome to OCDO
    Last edited by DCKilla; 01-12-2013 at 08:41 AM.

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    I was down at the er with my wife and kids when this was going down. They locked down the hospital so the only way in or out was the er. The funny thing was they didnt have a cop posted there. Seems to me if they were smart they would have at least parked a car there but im sure thats asking to much of the SPD.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    New Member here - first post....don't want to start off in the negative, but....

    Somebody firtively walking around with a "military-styled firearm" half-concealed under a coat, especially in that part of Spokane is going to "attract the eye"...SPD are going to be called, and they will respond and investigate - and rightly so...

    We as legals all know and recognize a legitimate carry situation - rifle or handgun - and so does Law Enforcement (for the most part) - but the majority of the public does not, and although I wasn't there, this doesn't seem to be one of those instances...

    Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"!
    Welcome to the forum.

    To me the I have a problem with who gets to decide the "should" part.

    One of my candid answers when asked why I OC is because I can.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Hi Larry, welcome to OCDO, nice to see new blood. Please get your flame suit on for the next part and do not take it personaly.


    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    New Member here - first post....don't want to start off in the negative, but....................................
    but the majority of the public does not, and although I wasn't there, this doesn't seem to be one of those instances...

    Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"!
    I have a problem with this part. It is uncommon because it is uncommon. The more the public sees us, the more easy it will be for all of us. People must understand that those of us who go legally armed are normal people. The LEOs need to explain the conduct is legal instead of demonizing all weapons.

    1. firtively walking around - Boilerplate wording to instill fear in hoplophobes.
    2. with a "military-styled firearm" - see one
    3. half-concealed under a coat, - who said or saw that, it helps to increase fear if a long gun is concealed.
    4. especially in that part of Spokane - so only go armed in ''safe areas''
    5. is going to "attract the eye"...SPD are going to be called, and they will respond and investigate - not a problem if the investigate and not harrass
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    New Member here - first post....don't want to start off in the negative, but....

    Somebody firtively walking around with a "military-styled firearm" half-concealed under a coat, especially in that part of Spokane is going to "attract the eye"...SPD are going to be called, and they will respond and investigate - and rightly so...

    We as legals all know and recognize a legitimate carry situation - rifle or handgun - and so does Law Enforcement (for the most part) - but the majority of the public does not, and although I wasn't there, this doesn't seem to be one of those instances...

    Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"!
    The problem is they never found anyone with a firearm so we do not know if there ever was a firearm.

    And I agree with SVG who gets to decide when I should OC.

    A question for you say when the police arrive and they find a guy simply walking down the street with a slung rifle, what should the Cops do at that point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Hi Larry, welcome to OCDO, nice to see new blood. Please get your flame suit on for the next part and do not take it personaly.



    I have a problem with this part. It is uncommon because it is uncommon. The more the public sees us, the more easy it will be for all of us. People must understand that those of us who go legally armed are normal people. The LEOs need to explain the conduct is legal instead of demonizing all weapons.

    To make this point recently with an LEO encounter .. they guy started yapping about sandy hook (yawn!) .. so I said, hey look I have done nothing wrong -- you'll have have to wait and see of I go into a school with my AR I guess.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solar View Post
    Apparently a man was seen " walking around with a semi auto rifle hid under his arm" at Sacred Heart. No word of brandishing or how "hidden" it was under his arm. Reports started 2 hours ago, now the police have surrounded the building.
    The news report I heard said the weapon was "undetermined". They had a problem because they did not know what they were looking for.

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum,

    - Personally, i don't the that philosophy applies to rights... Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"! ... thats a mothers saying to a child about eating too much cookies or drinking out of the toilet.
    - We as firearm owners need to be REALLY driving home point that we CAN and will, and that people are not in danger of us as good guys.
    - So comes the Q: How do you tell if he is a good guy with a gun. A: Because a bad guy with a gun wont let you see it, and if he does it's already to late.

    The primary point of OC is to normalize it. Get people to relax and not react. In my mind, thats ALL weapons. It is the "Right to keep and bear arms", not "Bear Guns". When the constitution was written, sabers (swords) were still commonly used by officers and gentlemen, and we need to shed this confined method of thinking in regards to our liberties and freedoms. If your not hurting anyone, then the saying should be "Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should be harassed about it when you do"! ~ As applied to anything that doesn't harm anyone else, and exempting parents to children of course.

    Live free or die trying right?
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    The Enclave is looking for patriotic motorcycle riders in Washington State who support liberty and freedom for all. ~ Check us out!
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    New Member here - first post....don't want to start off in the negative, but....

    Somebody firtively walking around with a "military-styled firearm" half-concealed under a coat, especially in that part of Spokane is going to "attract the eye"...SPD are going to be called, and they will respond and investigate - and rightly so...

    We as legals all know and recognize a legitimate carry situation - rifle or handgun - and so does Law Enforcement (for the most part) - but the majority of the public does not, and although I wasn't there, this doesn't seem to be one of those instances...

    Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"!
    Who's report did you hear this from? I was listening to the 10 pm news and I heard nothing of that. What I was heard was that the police had Sacred Heart on lockdown while they were looking for someone with a gun in the parking garage there. They also said they did NOT know the type of weapon they were looking for. I guess we will have to wait to hear more?

    I have googled and looked at every posted report...None of them...including the usual suspects that embellish a bit have anything like what you are saying. Source please.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I guess the Spokane 911 operators need some extra training.

    Someone calls in with a MWAG call, the first thing they should ask, "Is the person doing anything with the weapon?" If the person is just carrying it out in the open (if a rifle) or in a holster (if a pistol), the 911 operator should just tell the caller..."That is a perfectly legal activity and not a reason to call 911" That is what will happen here in Okanogan County.

    If a person was actually carrying a weapon with criminal intent it would be HIDDEN, there would be no MWAG call until it was used in the contemplated crime.

    Most criminals are not dumb. Even the mentally ill ones are not dumb. They do NOT want to attract any undue attention, and they do not want their victims to be able to act before they do. So, what do they do? They hide their weapons so they do not attract attention.

    If an openly carried firearm scares you, you need to re-evaluate you knowledge of state law, the Washington State and US Constitution, and then act accordingly. Why does Spokane LE have a black eye? Because of actions like Karl Thompson's. When LE receives a 911 call like the one that led to the beating death of Otto Zehm, they are suposed to observe to see if what the caller has indicated actually match the facts...They are not supposed to take the callers word for what is happening and come in guns (of billy clubs) blazing, when they do not even know the validity of the situation.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    Another "gun free zone"
    I pretty sure the Hospital is, but I don't think the parking garage is. I haven't visited in years so I don't remember completely..but yes, the interior of the hospital is, it is a private hospital.

    I left my carry in the car last time I was there. One of the few places I will visit and do that. Usually I just do not patronize GFZ's.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
    New Member here - first post....don't want to start off in the negative, but....

    Somebody firtively walking around with a "military-styled firearm" half-concealed under a coat, especially in that part of Spokane is going to "attract the eye"...SPD are going to be called, and they will respond and investigate - and rightly so...

    We as legals all know and recognize a legitimate carry situation - rifle or handgun - and so does Law Enforcement (for the most part) - but the majority of the public does not, and although I wasn't there, this doesn't seem to be one of those instances...

    Just because you "can" doesn't always mean you "should"!
    I just thought of a reasonable explaination of what actually happened.....This is a guess, based on knowing that hospital, and what MIGHT have actually happened...again, the breakdown in the system came with the 911 operator. This senario would answer why no MWAG was found.

    Sacred Heart is a GFZ. Law abiding person wants to go to into the hospital, to visit someone. He has a carry on him, and let's say he normally carry's openly. He puts his carry in the trunk because the hospital does not allow it inside.

    When this Law abiding Citizen comes out of the hospital after his visit, he opens his trunk and retrieves his carry. Puts it in it's holster (which is under a jacket), gets into his car and leaves. When were the calls made? After he retrieved his carry, and before he got into his car.

    How does that sound guys? All the hoopla could have been saved if the 911 operator had asked more questions.

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Who's report did you hear this from? I was listening to the 10 pm news and I heard nothing of that. What I was heard was that the police had Sacred Heart on lockdown while they were looking for someone with a gun in the parking garage there. They also said they did NOT know the type of weapon they were looking for. I guess we will have to wait to hear more?

    I have googled and looked at every posted report...None of them...including the usual suspects that embellish a bit have anything like what you are saying. Source please.
    A facebook page called Spokane News that listens to the police scanners reported that they received calls about a man with a rifle under his coat ( or arm cant remember now).

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    In that part of town it was probably a bong.
    LOL, oh that funny.

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Sacred Heart is a GFZ. Law abiding person wants to go to into the hospital, to visit someone. He has a carry on him, and let's say he normally carry's openly. He puts his carry in the trunk because the hospital does not allow it inside.
    Question: does the declaration by the hospital of a GFZ carry any weight of law? If not, then you aren't "law-abiding" if you disarm, merely polite and respectful of the property owner's wishes.

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    Question: does the declaration by the hospital of a GFZ carry any weight of law? If not, then you aren't "law-abiding" if you disarm, merely polite and respectful of the property owner's wishes.
    Hospitals are not included in places you cannot carry under state law.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    Question: does the declaration by the hospital of a GFZ carry any weight of law? If not, then you aren't "law-abiding" if you disarm, merely polite and respectful of the property owner's wishes.
    Hospitals are not GFZs by law. I had our local PUBLIC hospital take their signs down because I showed them that in RCW 9.41.300 there is no provision for them to post the Hospital itself. The only provision is if they have a SECURE mental health facility within the hospital, that is to be a GFZ, but nothing more.

    The local PUBLIC hospital took it to their lawyer, who concured with what I told them, and they removed the signs from the entrance doors. (these signs had just gone up when they built a new addition on and changed the entrance)

    As to a private hospital...say Sacred Heart or the Wenatchee Valley Medical Center...It is their hospital, and they can post, or not, as they please.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Not sure if it was a rhetorical question, but no, hospitals in general are not prohibited locations. If they have a mental ward, they would be covered by 9.41.300, in a similar way police stations.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    On private property you can be found in violation of trespass laws, by a failure to leave when asked by an agent to do so, posted signs are generally not a lawful warning in Washington. One that is is the LCB over 21 signage for bars.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    I think a question that needs to be posed to ANY police officer that is "checking out" a person OCing is:

    "how many bad guys have YOU ever caught PROPERLY OCing a firearm?"

    I am betting the answer is very very very close to ZERO in modern day America.

    Perhaps they need to spend more time on looking for the "obvious" bad guys...or just admit that they are NOT "law enforcement" but rather just "order maintenance" officers.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 01-12-2013 at 03:15 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    They locked down the hospital so the only way in or out was the er.


    Under what authority? Did they chain the panic-hardware fire doors shut? How exactly was this lock-down implemented?

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