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Thread: New guy. First encounter.

  1. #1
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    New guy. First encounter.

    Good morning everyone!

    This is my first post here at Open Carry and I couldn't find an introduction section so I just put this post in the Indiana section since I am from Lafayette. My name is Zach and I have been reading posts on this site for quite some time now whenever I have down time and have read a ton of great information on here and decided to join! I have been carrying ever since I turned 21 a few months ago and was legally able to do so. I carry everywhere legally able to do so except for campus because Purdue does not allow it. I usually carry a my glock 23 or my ruger sr1911.

    Anyway, my reason for this first post was I had my first encounter with another citizen regarding carrying my firearm. I usually carry in my seeps paddle holster or my blackhawk thumb break pancake holster. I really only carry the paddle holster when I am traveling to work as I work in a restaurant in west lafayette and its easy to remove from.my jeans to lock in my glove box. This morning I met my mother at the Christos restaurant a few doors down for breakfast as I work with her during the school year. We eat there probably five times a week so everyone knows us and that I am carrying if its not right after when I have a class. So this morning we finished our pancakes and were just sitting there chatting because we had plenty of time before we had to open. A couple had sat down next to us at a table and I heard them referencing my gun the entire time they sat there. And this gentleman's wife even corrected him a couple times reminding him that in Indiana it is only a license to carry a hundgun permit and that I did not have to conceal it. After a few minutes this gentleman finally spoke up and asked me how old I was.to which I replied 21 years old. He then said I assume you have your permit? To which I also answered yes. Then he went on this rant and began scolding me like a father would about how I should have switched my mother seats to hide my gun and that if someone didn't like it they would call the cops and one would be here in a heartbeat. And how hes been carrying for as many years as i have been alive. I told him that would be fine as I had no problem communicating with an officer about what I am legally able to do. And he just kept making comments and snide remarks. So I responded by politely telling them to have a wonderful afternoon and that I was not going to argue with someone who wasn't even my father.

    I guess since this was my first encounter with someone who didn't agree with the act of open carrying I kind of froze up and didn't reply the way I always thought it would end up. And my first question here is what should I have done differently and how should I go about dealing with those types of situations other than to stay confident is the only thing I could think of.

    Again, thanks for having me and I hope to continue learning an abundance of information as I have been reading here!

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollabakzach23 View Post
    Good morning everyone!

    1. So this morning we finished our pancakes and were just sitting there chatting because we had plenty of time before we had to open.

    2. And my first question here is what should I have done differently and how should I go about dealing with those types of situations other than to stay confident is the only thing I could think of.

    3. Again, thanks for having me and I hope to continue learning an abundance of information as I have been reading here!

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    I narrowed down the quote to the parts i am commenting on...

    1. Should have ordered more pancakes lol
    2. Refer back to 1
    3. Nice work and although I am in Louisville, KY.. welcome to OCDO!
    I got a gun for my wife.. good trade!

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    Make sure you are recording audio. Ignore the seasoned citizen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Re: New guy. First encounter.

    Thanks guys. Ordering more food was something I thought about after we had left. I would have loved to get something else to eat just to continue sitting there. However there were tables all around us from the crowds just getting out of church to grab brunch and I was not trying to argue with this man about something I knew not illegal. Maybe it is time to invest in a voice recorder

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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    Let the "concealed only" proponents know that you support their right to choose for themselves how to carry and would appreciate the same level of support and respect for your right.

    Personally, I love to give them a chance to discuss their thoughts and reasoning on the choice (if I have time for such a conversation) but would cut them short and end the conversation politely but firmly if they attempted to lecture me or lost their composure.

    Sounds like you did just fine. Welcome to OCDO and to carrying in Indiana. I carry openly in Lafayette on occasion and never have any issues.

    Also, in case you were not aware, the legal age for handgun carry with Indiana LTCH is 18.
    Last edited by ATM; 01-16-2013 at 04:09 AM.

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    Re: New guy. First encounter.

    Thanks for the response. We were having sort of a conversation at the beginning. But then he went off on his rant and I just walked out.

    I did know the age was only 18 but I had to wait until I was 21 to purchase my handgun in my situation since I had no one to gift one or anything like that to me

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  7. #7
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    Welcome to the OC forum!

    To me it sounded like he was looking to start an argument or was one of those "grumpy old men" who thinks that you are "in need of him bestowing wisdom upon you"...(ie: ranting)....

    Since his wife corrected him a few times, it sounds like he was looking for an issue. The fact that you refused to give back to him, probably pissed him off even more.
    No need to worry about "freezing up". Sounds like you did just fine.
    There will always be idiots, whether having to do with OC/CCW, gun rights, driving on the freeway, etc... When I say "there will always be idiots" truest me on this...I work in Computer Technical Support...

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollabakzach23 View Post
    Thanks for the response. We were having sort of a conversation at the beginning. But then he went off on his rant and I just walked out.

    I did know the age was only 18 but I had to wait until I was 21 to purchase my handgun in my situation since I had no one to gift one or anything like that to me

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    One thing that stops most people in a setting like a restaurant is just politely asking them if the are paying for your meal? If they answer "no" then just bid them "good day" and resume your previous conversation and meal.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  9. #9
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    welcome to the site. I also live in the lafayette area and open carry everywhere I go. I have only had one real encounter but it was kinda funny. I was at meijer checking out in the self check out and the attendent came over to me. I carry a Springfield XD 45.
    Her: "I hope thats not a real gun. Is it a tazer?"
    Me: "No its not a tazer and yes its real. Why would I carry around a fake gun?"
    Her: "I dont know? It looks plastic so i thought it was a tazer"
    Me: " Nope the part you see is the grip which is a polymer." by the look on her face she had no idea what polymer was.
    Her: "Is it loaded?"
    Me: I kinda chuckled "Yes it is."
    The next part surprised me
    Her: "I was thinking about getting a permit."
    Me: "Good" I told her the website that is needed to start the permit.

  10. #10
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    Re: New guy. First encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyroman View Post
    welcome to the site. I also live in the lafayette area and open carry everywhere I go. I have only had one real encounter but it was kinda funny. I was at meijer checking out in the self check out and the attendent came over to me. I carry a Springfield XD 45.
    Her: "I hope thats not a real gun. Is it a tazer?"
    Me: "No its not a tazer and yes its real. Why would I carry around a fake gun?"
    Her: "I dont know? It looks plastic so i thought it was a tazer"
    Me: " Nope the part you see is the grip which is a polymer." by the look on her face she had no idea what polymer was.
    Her: "Is it loaded?"
    Me: I kinda chuckled "Yes it is."
    The next part surprised me
    Her: "I was thinking about getting a permit."
    Me: "Good" I told her the website that is needed to start the permit.
    Nice! Got a couple other buddies who currently carry as well but its not a real popular thing around here as far as open carry goes.

    I think the cashier should get the permit yes. But maybe take a few classes before hopping right in to it since they though you had a fake gun made of plastic hahahaha how do you like your XD??

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  11. #11
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    Love my XD! Great shooting gun. Can hit a golf ball at 30 feet 7 out of 10 times.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "...and that if someone didn't like it they would call the cops and one would be here in a heartbeat."

    "It certainly sounds as though you don't like it, sir. If you're too poor to afford a cellphone, may I offer you the use of mine to call the police and inform them of my dastardly behavior?"

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    Re: New guy. First encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    "...and that if someone didn't like it they would call the cops and one would be here in a heartbeat."

    "It certainly sounds as though you don't like it, sir. If you're too poor to afford a cellphone, may I offer you the use of mine to call the police and inform them of my dastardly behavior?"
    My thought here was, "Really? Then why does it take them over 20 minutes if somebody's getting murdered?"

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    I have yet to use "sir/mam, I did not bother you, please don't bother me. good day".

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyroman View Post
    welcome to the site. I also live in the lafayette area and open carry everywhere I go. I have only had one real encounter but it was kinda funny. I was at meijer checking out in the self check out and the attendent came over to me. I carry a Springfield XD 45.
    Her: "I hope thats not a real gun. Is it a tazer?"
    Me: "No its not a tazer and yes its real. Why would I carry around a fake gun?"
    Her: "I dont know? It looks plastic so i thought it was a tazer"
    Me: " Nope the part you see is the grip which is a polymer." by the look on her face she had no idea what polymer was.
    Her: "Is it loaded?"
    Me: I kinda chuckled "Yes it is."
    The next part surprised me
    Her: "I was thinking about getting a permit."
    Me: "Good" I told her the website that is needed to start the permit.
    I was back packing in the Bob Marshall willderness in MT some years back when I ran into a couple from CA. We were filling water bottles at the same creek crossing. We sat there talking about fishing and camping spots when she notice my 357 mag it its shoulder holster.

    She say is that a pepper spray gun I say no it is a 357 mag. She goes on about pepper spray is much better then handguns for bears. We argreed to disagree and went on are ways.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Looks like all the good stuff has been said, so I'll just say, "welcome to the forum, Zach"

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    Re: New guy. First encounter.

    Haha thanks again guys for all the good info. I have since still been OCing everywhere I go except when I'm on campus and have had numerous conversations with many people in public who have never had an issue with it!

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    Ok...so I know I'll get a lot of grief for this but here goes! In Indiana open carry is actually a very grey area. If you are at say a restaurant as you described and a patron feels...let's say uncomfortable by your open carry they can legally call local law enforcement and THEY can ask you to leave and or escort you from the establishment. In addition, while the owner can not legally ask you if you have or own a gun and no firearms signs "have no weight" in IN, if the owner sees your firearm he can legally ask you to leave, and at that time if you don't can be arrested for trespassing!
    Sorry if I ruffled any feathers but sometimes it's just not worth the hassle. When carrying a firearm...no matter how you do it...you definitely have to be aware of EVERY aspect of the law.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derndrtjr View Post
    Ok...so I know I'll get a lot of grief for this but here goes! In Indiana open carry is actually a very grey area. If you are at say a restaurant as you described and a patron feels...let's say uncomfortable by your open carry they can legally call local law enforcement and THEY can ask you to leave and or escort you from the establishment. In addition, while the owner can not legally ask you if you have or own a gun and no firearms signs "have no weight" in IN, if the owner sees your firearm he can legally ask you to leave, and at that time if you don't can be arrested for trespassing!
    Sorry if I ruffled any feathers but sometimes it's just not worth the hassle. When carrying a firearm...no matter how you do it...you definitely have to be aware of EVERY aspect of the law.
    Well... sorta, kinda true.
    You can be asked to leave a private establishment and if you don't leave you are subject to being charged with criminal trespass. However, it's the manager or an authorized representative of the business that must make the request. You are allowed a reasonable time to leave, such as to gather up children or belongings, one isn't expected to magically apparate or teleport instantly away.
    Oh, and the establishment's owner/manager certainly can legally ask if you have a gun. It's no more illegal to ask 'do you have a gun?" than it is to ask "do you like the color blue?" or "was the steak rare enough for you?" He just doesn't have the authority to demand an answer.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-28-2013 at 12:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Well... sorta, kinda true.
    You can be asked to leave a private establishment and if you don't leave you are subject to being charged with criminal trespass. However, it's the manager or an authorized representative of the business that must make the request. You are allowed a reasonable time to leave, such as to gather up children or belongings, one isn't expected to magically apparate or teleport instantly away.
    Oh, and the establishment's owner/manager certainly can legally ask if you have a gun. It's no more illegal to ask 'do you have a gun?" than it is to ask "do you like the color blue?" or "was the steak rare enough for you?" He just doesn't have the authority to demand an answer.
    Ok...here we go...no it's not "kinda sorta" anything. I did say the owner, I never said you had to magicaly leave imediately and in IN it IS illegal to ask if you have a gun! Anything else you'd like to dispute?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    No, you said what I just quoted. Reread what you just said.
    Dude I'm sorry, I'm not hear to argue or start trouble but I'm confused at the point you're trying to make. Maybe you should re-read my entire post. By the way, I turned 57 yesterday so guess how long I've been carrying?

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Zach, next time someone threatens to call the cops, get a manager and make a complaint against a rude customer and have him call the cops if the customer continues to be rude.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    That's great but you just said the LEO have a right to tell you to get off private property based on a call not made by the property owner. That's not legally correct. The property owner or a manager must make that decision to remove someone.
    No...that's not what I said...please read the original post again. I'm happy to hear you're 18 yrs old and have been carrying for a whole 7 months now and you also have your law degree. If the OWNER calls the Police because a patron complained about an open firearm they do have just cause to remove that person! IN is Concealed Carry...you can get away with Open Carry so long as no one complains. I'll be happy to send you a link to the Article related to this if you'd like.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derndrtjr View Post
    No...that's not what I said...please read the original post again. I'm happy to hear you're 18 yrs old and have been carrying for a whole 7 months now and you also have your law degree. If the OWNER calls the Police because a patron complained about an open firearm they do have just cause to remove that person! IN is Concealed Carry...you can get away with Open Carry so long as no one complains. I'll be happy to send you a link to the Article related to this if you'd like.
    /facepalm

    You don't "get away" with OC. Carrying is a right in this country despite what the blowhard liberals want you to believe. Not to mention, why care about what a liberal thinks anyway? They hate freedom in all its forms.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    /facepalm

    You don't "get away" with OC. Carrying is a right in this country despite what the blowhard liberals want you to believe. Not to mention, why care about what a liberal thinks anyway? They hate freedom in all its forms.
    Actually in IN you do! That's why it's called Concealled Carry and not Open...for the second time! I agree with what you say about the "2nd", but you still have to follow your state and local laws...otherwise it makes it hard for the rest of us!
    Now I don't know what it's like up there or where you live in WI, but we're in NWI not far from Chicago. You can't and don't "get away with" Open over here.

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