Dude I'm sorry, I'm not hear to argue or start trouble but I'm confused at the point you're trying to make. Maybe you should re-read my entire post. By the way, I turned 57 yesterday so guess how long I've been carrying?
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New guy. First encounter.
- Thread starter hollabakzach23
- Start date
No...that's not what I said...please read the original post again. I'm happy to hear you're 18 yrs old and have been carrying for a whole 7 months now and you also have your law degree. If the OWNER calls the Police because a patron complained about an open firearm they do have just cause to remove that person! IN is Concealed Carry...you can get away with Open Carry so long as no one complains. I'll be happy to send you a link to the Article related to this if you'd like.
/facepalm
You don't "get away" with OC. Carrying is a right in this country despite what the blowhard liberals want you to believe. Not to mention, why care about what a liberal thinks anyway? They hate freedom in all its forms.
Actually in IN you do! That's why it's called Concealled Carry and not Open...for the second time! I agree with what you say about the "2nd", but you still have to follow your state and local laws...otherwise it makes it hard for the rest of us!
Now I don't know what it's like up there or where you live in WI, but we're in NWI not far from Chicago. You can't and don't "get away with" Open over here.
Again, despite what the liberal blowhards say, your LTCH is fine to carry openly or concealed. I remember a year or so ago someone in Evansville being arrested for OC. I remember at least one gentleman prevented from voting (forget the city). Now if the police want to flasely arrest someone for doing a lawful activity, then they will lose big in court. You guys really need to work hard for your rights. I haven't been on the INGO forum in probably a year, so I don't know what you guys have going on anymore.
carolina guy
Regular Member
Any cites for IN carry?
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
derndrtjr said:
Fallschirmjäger said:
My most sincere apologies, derndrtjr, I apparently have a problem understanding posts made when they use sub-standard grammar. My fault entirely for not realizing the phrase "they can legally call" and "THEY can ask you to leave" were in reference to an establishment's owner/manager when such owner/manager was not previously mentioned. In fact, the only personage mentioned previously to the mysterious "them" was was in the phrase "If you are at say a restaurant as you described and a patron feels...let's say uncomfortable by your open carry they can legally call local law enforcement and THEY can ask you to leave and or escort you from the establishment..." Normally, the following pronoun 'they' would be used to refer to the antecedent 'patron' and not to a yet unmentioned 'manager/owner.'
Now, on to other pleasantries. Since you mentioned that it is apparently illegal in the great state of Indiana, would you mind citing said portion of the Indiana code? I collect such tidbits of information and would greatly appreciate the opportunity to increase my knowledge of such pernicious laws.
Is it specifically just guns that a shop owner may not inquire about?
May he also not inquire if someone is armed with a bow or a blowgun?
Is it specifically shop owners that are mentioned, what about a manager, night clerk, or other employee?
Is it also illegal for Mr. Average Citizen to ask another citizen, "Hey, is that a gun?" and just how many years in prison would Mr. Citizen serve for making such an inquiry?
* For those who are curious, [sic] is the Latin adverb sic ("thus"; in full: sic erat scriptum, "thus was it written") added immediately after a quoted word or phrase (or a longer piece of text), indicates that the quotation has been transcribed exactly as found in the original source, complete with any erroneous spelling or other nonstandard presentation. In short it means "I didn't misspell that word, blame the guy who originally wrote it for his poor spelling."
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carolina guy
Regular Member
Found this on another post:
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch2.html
Curiously, they did add this to the end:
I think that NC would have a collective brain hemorrhage if the were to include something like the red bolded section.
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cce1302
Regular Member
For ease of reading, I made bold all the things that you claim that you are wrong about. I ask you to back them up with the laws that support your claims, but looking for them is an exercise in futility as those laws don't exist.
Wait, you showed up here at OPENCARRY.org because you don't support open carry? Great choice.
1. Also, please cite any law in Indiana that so much as mentions "Concealled [sic] Carry."
2. Open carry is legal except where prohibited. Please post IN law that prohibits it.
3. Also please post the law that says a restaurant owner can't ask a customer if he is carrying.
I'm asking for only three things. You will not be able to produce any of them.
Ok...so I know I'll get a lot of grief for this but here goes! In Indiana open carry is actually a very grey area. If you are at say a restaurant as you described and a patron feels...let's say uncomfortable by your open carry they can legally call local law enforcement and THEY can ask you to leave and or escort you from the establishment. In addition, while the owner can not legally ask you if you have or own a gun and no firearms signs "have no weight" in IN, if the owner sees your firearm he can legally ask you to leave, and at that time if you don't can be arrested for trespassing!
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers but sometimes it's just not worth the hassle. When carrying a firearm...no matter how you do it...you definitely have to be aware of EVERY aspect of the law.
Wait, you showed up here at OPENCARRY.org because you don't support open carry? Great choice.
1. Also, please cite any law in Indiana that so much as mentions "Concealled [sic] Carry."
2. Open carry is legal except where prohibited. Please post IN law that prohibits it.
3. Also please post the law that says a restaurant owner can't ask a customer if he is carrying.
I'm asking for only three things. You will not be able to produce any of them.
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ATM
Campaign Veteran
The grief you are getting here is twofold:
1. You've made a few assertions which are simply incorrect and cannot possibly be supported.
2. You then attempted to equate carrying a gun for many years with knowledge of Indiana Code. The two are not even relative.
You could continue in civil debate by providing some sort of factual evidence which led you to these incorrect conclusions, or you could just admit you had a few items wrong all these years and move forward with the correct information directly from the Indiana Code. I'd love to see a link to the supporting article which you referred to.
In short, open carry is as much a "grey area" in Indiana as concealed carry is (in that the method of handgun carry is simply not addressed anywhere in code nor upon the license itself.)
But it's not called that anywhere in Indiana that I'm aware of... "for the second time!" Indiana is not a "concealed carry" state, it is merely a "license required to carry" state.
I know of several folks around the NWI region who regularly open carry who would dispute this opinion as well. Where did you come up with this idea?
They're not only "getting away" with it, the legality of doing so is codified and fairly common knowledge at this point.
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bad_astronaut
New member
I'm sorry, but that is what you said, the only "person" referenced before the usage of "they" was a patron, meaning that your initial statement was a patron of an establishment can call the police and have you removed from said establishment. You had not mentioned an owner of the establishment at that point. His observation was correct, you are reading your post through the lenses of your intended communication. If you did indeed intend to say that the owner can ask you to leave, you were right, just expressing yourself in an unclear manner.
Also, your age does not make you more correct that is an appeal to authority debating fallacy, one commonly used by LEO's in an attempt to force a point of view.
hollabakzach23
Regular Member
That was my main argument with this gentleman is that indiana is not a conceal state. Since then I have been to christos just about every morning with my mother as we eat there before we go to work and I have sat next to a few LEOs who have never had a problem with it. I was stopped at the mall the other night by an officer but he just asked me to cover it up. When I asked why he responded with the mall is privately owned and he did not want one of the rent a cops to make a huge deal out of it as there was a sign posted at all of the entrances stating no firearms. I know that in indiana they carry no legal weight, at least that I am aware of someone may guide me in the right direction for that. But he said he didnt mind that I was carrying just thaf he didnt want me to be asked to leave for it to which I complied and threw my sweatshirt over it no big deal, im not out to start arguments with people about the legalities of carry im just simply protecting mine in the most comfortable way I feel which is open carrying
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
A law preventing someone from asking a question? That is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
Oh, I forgot to ask; do you have a gun? I visit Indiana sometimes so you can have me arrested then.
Maybe it's time for a checkup old man? You probably think I violated HIPPA by asking you a medical question.
And as others have already stated when you said "they" it referred to the patron not owner.
We have a tradition here of citing our claims to the law (it's also one of the rules). Articles are nice but authors make mistakes too.
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cce1302
Regular Member
That is a great encounter with an officer.
Sounds like a good officer looking out for a responsible citizen.
hollabakzach23
Regular Member
Agreed. I have a ton of respect for him
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hollabakzach23
Regular Member
Well I have come to conclude (personal opinion, I did not see this on a billboard nor do I have any factual evidence to back this up other than personal experience) but I have two stories that sort of back this up.
First, I was at Gander Mountain here on 26 and I walked back to look at my options for a future purchase just killing time doing some shopping. I walked back to the firearms and one kid working asked if I had my firearm checked at customer service. I said no I didn't because it was not being serviced and I wasn't bringing it in for them. He then asked if it was loaded and I kind of stumbled with my answer because it was a dumb moment for me like of course it's loaded?? Well he told me I needed to take the mag out to which I did because I didn't know if they might have changed their policy since the last time I was in there. I looked at a few firearms and left. Upon leaving the store I noticed a sign at the front of the store that read "STOP! Any customer bringing in a firearm for service needs to have it checked in at customer service. This does not apply to customers legally carrying their firearm in a holster concealed or openly." So I was real confused after reading that sign as to why he asked me to unload it. I think he needs to review the store policy.
And just today I was at the walmart today which, correct me if I'm wrong, follows state laws regarding carrying but I was stopped by who seemed to be a stock boy and he said across an aisle I was in to "cover up" to which I responded why? He said because with everything that has happened lately that people don't like it and feel uncomfortable. I asked him who was uncomfortable to which he had no answer? He said I'm not making you I would just like if you did. I responded with I have done nothing wrong and he was more than welcome to contact whoever he needed to ask me to leave but until then I was doing nothing illegal and I was going to continue shopping.
I guess I just don't understand why I have received so much negative attention at some of the most open carry friendly locations around town.
First, I was at Gander Mountain here on 26 and I walked back to look at my options for a future purchase just killing time doing some shopping. I walked back to the firearms and one kid working asked if I had my firearm checked at customer service. I said no I didn't because it was not being serviced and I wasn't bringing it in for them. He then asked if it was loaded and I kind of stumbled with my answer because it was a dumb moment for me like of course it's loaded?? Well he told me I needed to take the mag out to which I did because I didn't know if they might have changed their policy since the last time I was in there. I looked at a few firearms and left. Upon leaving the store I noticed a sign at the front of the store that read "STOP! Any customer bringing in a firearm for service needs to have it checked in at customer service. This does not apply to customers legally carrying their firearm in a holster concealed or openly." So I was real confused after reading that sign as to why he asked me to unload it. I think he needs to review the store policy.
And just today I was at the walmart today which, correct me if I'm wrong, follows state laws regarding carrying but I was stopped by who seemed to be a stock boy and he said across an aisle I was in to "cover up" to which I responded why? He said because with everything that has happened lately that people don't like it and feel uncomfortable. I asked him who was uncomfortable to which he had no answer? He said I'm not making you I would just like if you did. I responded with I have done nothing wrong and he was more than welcome to contact whoever he needed to ask me to leave but until then I was doing nothing illegal and I was going to continue shopping.
I guess I just don't understand why I have received so much negative attention at some of the most open carry friendly locations around town.
ATM
Campaign Veteran
I wouldn't call it negative, simply misinformed. Hopefully those employees will think before they:
1. Misrepresent their own store policy
2. Project their unsupported opinions
upon future legally armed customers.
brewray
New member
NH New Guy, first time response
Hey Zach,
I have recently stepped up to the plate and started carrying where ever I can. Here in NH it is relatively easy to obtain a permit which I have had for some time. I didn't always carry open or concealed but now I mostly carry concealed. This guy should have given you the respect he felt he deserved as a gun carrying citizen. Sounds like he had some chip on his shoulder, most likely some guy who was a cop at one point. I say that because I do know some cops that would act like that, but most in NH would not. Anyway that is all speculation on my part. You handled it just fine. I may have added some tactical reasons for you placement. I often sit with my back to a wall or to a non entry point as do most Law Enforcement types. I work at a small County jail and this drives a lot of my reasoning for carrying. I see the dirt bags who commit gun crimes and know that if they ever come into my view with ill intent I will do what I have to to protect my family or a stranger if need be. Not knowing if the seating and entries would have been a good argument for your situation I think he simply is a hot head and it sounds like the guys wife has to put up with this kind of ignorance fairly often. She seemed more reasonable and knowledgeable than he was. Keep up what you are doing, I am still learning about all sorts of problems and solutions in this constant gun debate. Carry safe, carry often, and keep exercising the rights that so many have fought and died for, the preservation of our way of life here in America. Ray
Hey Zach,
I have recently stepped up to the plate and started carrying where ever I can. Here in NH it is relatively easy to obtain a permit which I have had for some time. I didn't always carry open or concealed but now I mostly carry concealed. This guy should have given you the respect he felt he deserved as a gun carrying citizen. Sounds like he had some chip on his shoulder, most likely some guy who was a cop at one point. I say that because I do know some cops that would act like that, but most in NH would not. Anyway that is all speculation on my part. You handled it just fine. I may have added some tactical reasons for you placement. I often sit with my back to a wall or to a non entry point as do most Law Enforcement types. I work at a small County jail and this drives a lot of my reasoning for carrying. I see the dirt bags who commit gun crimes and know that if they ever come into my view with ill intent I will do what I have to to protect my family or a stranger if need be. Not knowing if the seating and entries would have been a good argument for your situation I think he simply is a hot head and it sounds like the guys wife has to put up with this kind of ignorance fairly often. She seemed more reasonable and knowledgeable than he was. Keep up what you are doing, I am still learning about all sorts of problems and solutions in this constant gun debate. Carry safe, carry often, and keep exercising the rights that so many have fought and died for, the preservation of our way of life here in America. Ray