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Thread: Pro Gun Group choices?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
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    Pro Gun Group choices?

    I have finally decided to join a Pro Gun Organization.
    so my question really is who will give me the best bang for my buck?
    there is GOA, NRA and NVFAC that I know of who of these are the best and why?
    or if there is another group you think I should be part of, same question?
    thank in Advance guys.
    remove handgun registration in Clark County,NV

    2nd amendment in modern English: The people have the right to own and carry firearms, and it may not be violated because a well-equipped Militia is necessary for a State to remain secure and free.

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    NVFAC is the state NRA affiliate, so you should join NRA first anyway. (NFAC, NVFAC, NFC... I don't know what their damn acronym is supposed to be)

    GOA is a great organization and they have less compromise than the NRA but...

    I feel the NRA is the first one you should join. They are the largest and the most powerful, and even with their political flaws, they do a lot of good overall, ESPECIALLY when you look beyond the political lobbying and remember all they do for safety and marksmanship training.

    My order would be NRA, GOA, NVFAC.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    When watching the politicians, mainstream media, anti gun organizations and elections, whenever they talk about a formidable pro gun adversary as being a major obstacle it is not GOA or NVFAC. Agree or not agree with the NRA it is sure numbers of members and over 140 years of existence of the NRA keeps them on the top of the anti gun opposition list.

    I am of the opinion at least join the NRA. I believe it is paramount in our gun right efforts to support, maintain, and build up the largest pro gun organization. Follow that up by supporting any of the other pro gun groups. Now is not the time to splinter up into smaller less effective groups especially if weakened by infighting.

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    Join all three you mentioned!

    I would put GOA last of the three mentioned. Not because I don't like GOA; GOA is good!

    But the NRA fights on both state and federal levels. GOA concentrates on the national level only.

    And Nevada Firearms Coaltion is the Nevada state NRA affiliated organization. Join NVFAC and help fight on the state level!

    The Nevada Legislature convenes on February 4. Please pay attention as there will no doubt be both good and bad bills. Probably about 1200 bills in total. It will be fast & furious (no pun intended.)
    Last edited by varminter22; 01-13-2013 at 06:56 PM.

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    The Second Amendment Foundation brought you the Heller and McDonald decisions which found an individual right to RKBA -- after the NRA tried to torpedo the Heller case.

    The NRA helped write and strongly supported the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968. Their Executive VP even bragged about it in their magazine about 40 years ago. They didn't discover your gun rights for another several years.

    If you want to save your guns, SAF is the group which has done you the most good. If you can only join and support one organization, this is the one.

    If you want to support programs to teach shooting, gun safety (such as Eddie Eagle), etc, join the NRA -- but when it comes to your civil rights, they're generally as useful as an afterburner on a turtle. If you go to Tom Gresham's Gun Talk website, they have a phone number that you can call to get NRA Life Membership for $300 (limited time offer).

    NVFAC's greatest accomplishments are , and . One of their top execs is loudly opposed to open and Constitutional carry. I can't think of a single good reason to give them a penny.

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    I say join what you can handle, If you give them your power, make sure it is still yours after you hand it over. In order to do this you need to have say in what happens and a voice in the movement. If you cannot make them answer to you then they are not working for you, no matter what they tell you.

    I watched as the NRA, GOA, all helped the Sheriffs and Chiefs association (a Nevada non Profit Org.) get Veto over the States we can carry in, and who can carry in our State. when I cried Foul, it fell on deaf ears. So I am Back to square one. Some are sure it takes numbers to make a difference. I tend to think that you cannot rely on others if you want something, as they may want something different. I stopped supporting Org.'s And have put my money and time into a lawsuit, Mac also gave me $20.00 towards it. I am suing the sheriffs and Chiefs assoc. it is about 95% complete. look for news soon, and just because you decide to support a org. do not let them dictate your beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    ...
    And Nevada Firearms Coaltion is the Nevada state NRA affiliated organization. Join NVFAC and help fight on the state level!
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    ... NVFAC's greatest accomplishments are === , --- and ---- . One of their top execs is loudly opposed to open and Constitutional carry. I can't think of a single good reason to give them a penny.
    Note that while the Nevada Firearms Coalition holds itself out as "a registered Nevada nonprofit corporation," it does not have that status according to the IRS.

    They are so registered with the State of Nevada which requires only that they file a request and submit a list of officers.

    Don Turner, their President, told us a year or more ago that they had filed with the IRS for non-profit status and that they were waiting for a determination as to what category of tax exempt entity they would fall under. To date they are not on the IRS list of tax exempt organizations and I can only think that they; a) never actually filed the application, b) were rejected by the IRS, or c) withdrew their application. Of course this means that they are not required to make public disclosure of what they do with the money that they take in. Be careful who you give money to, I am.

    By the way, both GOA and the NRA are on that list as tax exempt.

    Ken

    p.s.; They also have been unable to show that they have been able to achieve any of the goals, except for raising money, listed on their web-site.
    Last edited by CowboyKen; 01-14-2013 at 12:12 AM.

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    thanks for all of the views everyone, got some thinking to do
    remove handgun registration in Clark County,NV

    2nd amendment in modern English: The people have the right to own and carry firearms, and it may not be violated because a well-equipped Militia is necessary for a State to remain secure and free.

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    NVFAC for Nevada. It is new and having some serious growing pains but we need a strong state association.

    On the national level I agree 2A Foundation gets the most bang for your buck as they litigate and win. GOA is the most no compromise lobby as a national organization, and NRA is the 800 pound gorilla when it comes to their strong lobby.

    If you can, join them all. If not, NVFAC and 2A foundation.

    Under current climate I'm not sure that any amount of lobbying is going to matter. What will matter are the legal actions sure to follow and that is why I say 2A foundation.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    Note that while the Nevada Firearms Coalition holds itself out as "a registered Nevada nonprofit corporation," it does not have that status according to the IRS.
    Here we go again.

    Well, for your information, about three weeks ago, NVFAC finally, after several months, received determination from the IRS. NVFAC is a 501(c)4 organization.

    As I reported here a few months ago, the IRS is frequently "not-so-fast" and, indeed, it did take a few months to recieve their determination. Not unusual by any means.

    Again, NVFAC IS A Federal 501(C)4 organization, complete with IRS determination, AND a Nevada non-profit.
    Last edited by varminter22; 01-14-2013 at 10:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I say join what you can handle, If you give them your power, make sure it is still yours after you hand it over. In order to do this you need to have say in what happens and a voice in the movement. If you cannot make them answer to you then they are not working for you, no matter what they tell you.

    I watched as the NRA, GOA, all helped the Sheriffs and Chiefs association (a Nevada non Profit Org.) get Veto over the States we can carry in, and who can carry in our State. when I cried Foul, it fell on deaf ears. So I am Back to square one. Some are sure it takes numbers to make a difference. I tend to think that you cannot rely on others if you want something, as they may want something different. I stopped supporting Org.'s And have put my money and time into a lawsuit, Mac also gave me $20.00 towards it. I am suing the sheriffs and Chiefs assoc. it is about 95% complete. look for news soon, and just because you decide to support a org. do not let them dictate your beliefs.
    Please show evidence of the NRA and GOA helping the NSCA.

    I personally was there as an UNPAID lobbyist for SFA (since 2007.)

    I worked with the NRA on most issues. I never saw ANY evidence of which you speak.

    And, the GOA has not lobbied in Nevada for many, many years. The GOA did help out some (via email) in the 2011 session (concerning AB-282) but that is all.

    And, in ref to AB-282 of 2011, I can tell you the NRA and SFA all did their absolute best. I saw NO evidence of supporting the NSCA's quest for "veto power over the states we can carry in."

    As we have discussed so many times, the NSCA is a Nevada non-profit corporation and should NOT have such statutory power! (I have no idea if they are a federal 501(c)x or not - perhaps Ken can research that!),
    Last edited by varminter22; 01-14-2013 at 10:40 PM.

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    The Gun rights Org's. Exercised their right to not show up, That's how they helped give the Sheriffs and Chiefs Assoc. veto power over our Govt.! I bet their Donate button worked while the committee was being held. Here is who showed up for SB 237 In 2007 when the NVSAC were appointed Veto Power.
    Senate Committee on Judiciary
    March 21, 2007
    Page 2
    Lynn Chapman, Nevada Eagle Forum
    John L. Wagner, The Burke Consortium
    Frank Adams, Executive Director, Nevada Sheriffs' and Chiefs' Association
    Steve Robinson, Deputy Chief of Staff/Legislative Director, Office of the Governor
    Phillip A. Galeoto, Director, Department of Public Safety
    Ronald R. Cuzze, President, Nevada State Law Enforcement Officers' Association
    Raymond J. Flynn, Assistant Sheriff, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
    Rocky Finseth, Nevada Land Title Association
    Dave Evans, Western Title Company, Incorporated
    Teresa B. McKee, Nevada Association of Realtors
    Cheryl Blomstrom, Nevada Consumer Financial Association
    CHAIR AMODEI:
    The hearing is opened on Senate Bill (S.B.) 237.
    SENATE BILL 237: Revises certain provisions governing permits to carry concealed firearms. (BDR 15-47)
    Even the real estate association was there for the Concealed Carry bill... Where was the NRA Et all?

    Now on a different bill that year regarding CCW's, This one had to do with raising the costs, there was one gun group that did show up who was it?

    Assembly Committee on Judiciary
    February 19, 2007
    Page 2
    Matt Mowbray, Committee Assistant
    OTHERS PRESENT:
    Frank Adams, Executive Director, Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association
    Robert Roshak, Sergeant, Office of Intergovernmental Services, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
    Ray Flynn, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police
    David Schumann, Nevada Committee for Full Statehood
    Warren Russell, Elko County Commissioner
    John Wagner, representing The Burke Consortium
    Philip K. O'Neill, Chief, Records and Technology Division, Nevada Department of Public Safety
    James L. Rhodes, President, Stillwater Firearms Association, Fallon, Nevada
    Sam McGuire, State Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Instructor
    R. Scott Meyer, Nevada Western Firearms
    Kelly Connolly, State CCW Instructor
    Nicholas Anthony, Legislative Relations Program Manager, City of Reno
    Kristin L. Erickson, Chief Deputy District Attorney, Washoe County, representing the Nevada District Attorneys Association
    Cotter Conway, representing the Washoe County Public Defender's Office
    Jason Frierson, Attorney, Clark County Public Defender's Office
    Chairman Anderson:
    [Meeting called to order. Roll called.] Before we turn our attention to the legislation of the day, the Records and Technology Division of the Department of Public Safety has asked for Bill Draft Request (BDR) 16-727 to be withdrawn. I have a letter dated February 20, 2007 from Captain P. K. O'Neill, the Division Chief, which reflects the formal request (Exhibit C). It is the Chair's intention to honor that request and make this announcement part of the public record.
    Let us turn our attention to Assembly Bill 21.
    Assembly Bill 21: Revises certain provisions governing weapons. (BDR 15-326)
    So my intent here is not to "kneecap" well meaning individuals and groups. My intent is this if you think you can send some Organization $25.00 a year to "fight for your rights," you must first drastically lower your threshold of what a right is. You know what they say... if it sounds too good to be true..... ! It is.

    To get our Government no choice but to listen to the "Gun Lobby" Has the distinct downside of quieting the voice of "We the People"

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    Sorry, but that is not evidence of support for the NSCA's agenda. That is simply a list of people that were signed in and testified that day.

    I can tell you the NRA-ILA was very actively involved - and on our side.

    And, again, GOA has not been active in our legislature in many, many years (years before 2007.) It seems the GOA concentrates on the federal level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Here we go again.

    Well, for your information, about three weeks ago, NVFAC finally, after several months, received determination from the IRS. NVFAC is a 501(c)4 organization.

    As I reported here a few months ago, the IRS is frequently "not-so-fast" and, indeed, it did take a few months to recieve their determination. Not unusual by any means.

    Again, NVFAC IS A Federal 501(C)4 organization, complete with IRS determination, AND a Nevada non-profit.


    Larry,

    Thank you for the update.

    I STAND CORRECTED!!!!!

    Good for them. I am very happy about this. It give the organization a level of legitimacy they cannot have, in my eyes, without it.

    I look forward to also hearing about progress on any of the goals that I asked about last time (Education, Competition, Training, etc.).

    Ken

    p.s.; If I can, in any way, help with advancing these goals as a volunteer please let me know.
    Last edited by CowboyKen; 01-15-2013 at 11:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post

    I can tell you the NRA-ILA was very actively involved - and on our side.
    I would like to see the minuets of those meetings, do you have them?

    Also on 1-13 2013, at 6:54 pm varmenter wrote:
    "But the NRA fights on both state and federal levels. GOA concentrates on the national level only."
    If they do not even show to the committee meetings how can you call it a fight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I would like to see the minuets of those meetings, do you have them?

    Also on 1-13 2013, at 6:54 pm varmenter wrote:

    If they do not even show to the committee meetings how can you call it a fight?
    Committe meetings are not, by far, the only place that actions were taken. In fact, with chairs that were hostile to legislation, attendance at the committee meeting was only useful to show attendance at the committee meeting. MOST of the effort is prior to the committee meetings.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Committe meetings are not, by far, the only place that actions were taken. In fact, with chairs that were hostile to legislation, attendance at the committee meeting was only useful to show attendance at the committee meeting. MOST of the effort is prior to the committee meetings.
    My Point exactly. All the Org's had done their "back room" deals, and decided that the Sheriff's and Chiefs Assoc. Should Govern the CCW laws in Nevada. I am not at all saying the NRA et all were not involved in the compromise.

    My point is this. If you are like me and think the Sheriffs and Chiefs assoc. should stick to planning the annual ball, and stay the HE!! out of the PEOPLE'S business, Then obviously you have to plan on doing more than donating to a gun Org. of your choice!

    Since The sheriffs and Chiefs were put into power (according to wrightme, the gun Org's. were heavily involved, to the extent they knew they did not have to show for the committee meeting) The NRA et all has not to my knowledge objected to the NVSAC being in power.(this includes the NVFAC.) All of the gun Org's have turned down the opportunity to work with me in an effort to remove the NVSAC from their control over the CCW laws.

    I Challenge anyone that can show proof that a Gun Org. "fought the appointment of the NVSAC the dictators of CCW." To step up and Show where these Gun Org's earned our trust in this matter, and that they did not "sell out" to a non profit.

    That being said, I am not anti-gun Org. I still get my NRA alerts, etc. That is how I became informed about the last NVSAC meeting. However these orgs. fit into your gun "safe" is your business, my point is this: they are each a different type of tool, and there is no one tool that can do every job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    My Point exactly. All the Org's had done their "back room" deals, and decided that the Sheriff's and Chiefs Assoc. Should Govern the CCW laws in Nevada. I am not at all saying the NRA et all were not involved in the compromise.

    My point is this. If you are like me and think the Sheriffs and Chiefs assoc. should stick to planning the annual ball, and stay the HE!! out of the PEOPLE'S business, Then obviously you have to plan on doing more than donating to a gun Org. of your choice!

    Since The sheriffs and Chiefs were put into power (according to wrightme, the gun Org's. were heavily involved, to the extent they knew they did not have to show for the committee meeting) The NRA et all has not to my knowledge objected to the NVSAC being in power.(this includes the NVFAC.) All of the gun Org's have turned down the opportunity to work with me in an effort to remove the NVSAC from their control over the CCW laws.

    I Challenge anyone that can show proof that a Gun Org. "fought the appointment of the NVSAC the dictators of CCW." To step up and Show where these Gun Org's earned our trust in this matter, and that they did not "sell out" to a non profit.

    That being said, I am not anti-gun Org. I still get my NRA alerts, etc. That is how I became informed about the last NVSAC meeting. However these orgs. fit into your gun "safe" is your business, my point is this: they are each a different type of tool, and there is no one tool that can do every job.


    The NRA was fighting the backroom deals.....

    And, no, they are/were NOT 'for' the NVSCA having any role in it whatsoever. You are simply incorrect with your allegations.

    The portion in bold is a flat out lie. It wasn't anything like 'knew they didn't have to.' If showing up was a decision at all, it was that they knew there was no point in even attempting to oppose it. And, no, that does NOT mean you can assume that they used that as any criteria, that is simply my take on how the committee meetings DID operate with a hostile chair.


    If, as you claim, you are not 'anti-gun org,' stop assuming they were in cahoots with the NVSCA. They weren't.
    Last edited by wrightme; 01-15-2013 at 04:56 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    .


    If, as you claim, you are not 'anti-gun org,' stop assuming they were in cahoots with the NVSCA. They weren't.
    Are there any NRA alerts or newsletters or news releases to support that statement? My wife who is a NRA member, for the sole reason of buying a M1 garand, never got anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Are there any NRA alerts or newsletters or news releases to support that statement? My wife who is a NRA member, for the sole reason of buying a M1 garand, never got anything.
    Damifiknow....


    I never read what they send me....
    [shrug]
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I would like to see the minuets of those meetings, do you have them?

    Also on 1-13 2013, at 6:54 pm varmenter wrote:

    If they do not even show to the committee meetings how can you call it a fight?
    "Backroom" meetings is not the right word.

    As you might expect, meetings between various groups and legislators are quite common on any/all bills being considered. There are no official minutes.

    For example, I attended a meeting concerning AB-282. Attending were two from NSCA, two from NRA, myself from SFA, Asm Oceguera, Sen Settelmeyer, and Sen Lee. SFA and NRA were at great odds with NSCA; a very 'interesting' meeting, indeed. There are no official minutes. And I can tell you that if it weren't for SFA and NRA, AB-282 would have turned out MUCH different (NOT in our favor.)

    And just because one person, lobbyist, or group is not listed as a testifier does NOT mean they were not there working the issue.

    I realize it is quite a distance from Vegas to Carson, but recommend attending in Carson if/when one can make the trip. It is definitely a learning experience.

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    [QUOTE=CowboyKen;1881176] It give the organization a level of legitimacy they cannot have, in my eyes, without it. [QUOTE]

    I never quite understood that. As far as I know, federal 501(c)x status is NOT required. For example, I know of a Nevada non-profit corp that was solely such (for over 20 years) until very recently they decided to become a federal 501(c)x.

    Becoming a 501(c)x confers no special status that I know of. It does, however, allow the org to purchase items sales tax free, as I recall.

    But then, I don't claim to be an expert on such matters.

    At any rate, NVFAC has been a legitimate Nevada non-profit corporation since it was formed and filed with the Nevada Secretary of State.
    Last edited by varminter22; 01-15-2013 at 09:05 PM.

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    [QUOTE=varminter22;1881526][QUOTE=CowboyKen;1881176] It give the organization a level of legitimacy they cannot have, in my eyes, without it.

    I never quite understood that. As far as I know, federal 501(c)x status is NOT required. For example, I know of a Nevada non-profit corp that was solely such (for over 20 years) until very recently they decided to become a federal 501(c)x.

    Becoming a 501(c)x confers no special status that I know of. It does, however, allow the org to purchase items sales tax free, as I recall.

    But then, I don't claim to be an expert on such matters.

    At any rate, NVFAC has been a legitimate Nevada non-profit corporation since it was formed and filed with the Nevada Secretary of State.
    Larry,

    IANAL!

    As I understand it, being a "Nevada non-profit Corporation" does not do much and only requires that you file as such with the Secretary of State. It is kind of like stating an intention I think.

    On the other hand, to obtain tax exempt status from the IRS is more challenging. You must file the appropriate form, 1023 or 1024, which contains a great deal about the organization, its intentions and purposes and its finances. Once a determination letter is received the entity can file with Nevada for tax exempt status in Nevada and is exempt from federal tax. Until then it must file and pay US income tax as any other corporation would.

    I think I referred you to IRS publication 557 before. This is the minimum reading for an officer/board member of a tax exempt organization and if you have not read it I think you should. The Secretary of State of Nevada also has some worthwhile publications including: http://ag.state.nv.us/publications/m...NonProfits.pdf.

    I hope this helps.

    Ken

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    [QUOTE=CowboyKen;1881720][QUOTE=varminter22;1881526]
    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    It give the organization a level of legitimacy they cannot have, in my eyes, without it.

    Larry,

    IANAL!

    As I understand it, being a "Nevada non-profit Corporation" does not do much and only requires that you file as such with the Secretary of State. It is kind of like stating an intention I think.

    On the other hand, to obtain tax exempt status from the IRS is more challenging. You must file the appropriate form, 1023 or 1024, which contains a great deal about the organization, its intentions and purposes and its finances. Once a determination letter is received the entity can file with Nevada for tax exempt status in Nevada and is exempt from federal tax. Until then it must file and pay US income tax as any other corporation would.

    I think I referred you to IRS publication 557 before. This is the minimum reading for an officer/board member of a tax exempt organization and if you have not read it I think you should. The Secretary of State of Nevada also has some worthwhile publications including: http://ag.state.nv.us/publications/m...NonProfits.pdf.

    I hope this helps.

    Ken
    A Nevada non-prof must operate in accordance with Nevada law.

    IF 501(c)x status is not desired nor required, what is the big deal? How does it make an org any more "worthy"?

    Again, IANAL, and it has been a whle since I reviewed the applicable publications.

    Its over now. I hope your 501(c)x concerns have been taken care of. NVFAC IS a 501(c)4.
    Last edited by varminter22; 01-16-2013 at 07:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    The NRA was fighting the backroom deals.....

    And, no, they are/were NOT 'for' the NVSCA having any role in it whatsoever. You are simply incorrect with your allegations.
    You claim that The NRA does not support the impermissible delegation of the sovereign power of the State of Nevada to the NVSCA, yet their complete silence on this issue is "Tacit Approval" of the same. You also have provided no cite in this matter. Since you claim an action,(they are fighting,) there should be evidence of that action. Sufficient evidence of such action will cause me to apologize and shut up!...

    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    The portion in bold is a flat out lie. It wasn't anything like 'knew they didn't have to.' If showing up was a decision at all, it was that they knew there was no point in even attempting to oppose it. And, no, that does NOT mean you can assume that they used that as any criteria, that is simply my take on how the committee meetings DID operate with a hostile chair.
    I will let you explain this one further as it appears to be an admission the NRA knew they were powerless. I can address it after you clarify your point.


    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    If, as you claim, you are not 'anti-gun org,' stop assuming they were in cahoots with the NVSCA. They weren't.
    I suggest that you send a NORA request to DPS asking for the emails between the DPS and NRA, as well as the emails between DPS and NVSAC. I believe you will be forced into further denial. or realization that the NRA in fact has not opposed the NVSCA involvement in our Govt. I remember when you were arguing that the NVSCA was not a law making body and how slow you were in realizing . (in spite of the fact they are written into the NRS. as such) It appears that you have extra time and just want to argue.

    The only thing I am alleging is inactivity on one matter. I see none and challenge you to support your arguments of action with facts.

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