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Thread: Ok! who can help me!?!?

  1. #1
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    Ok! who can help me!?!?

    SO im 19 and been open carrying a PISTOL for a year now, no problems, but now my girlfriend is all concerned about it, here is the big picture,
    when i drive with her it is in the glove box and she is the driver, she recently ask a leo that always goes to her work if she or i would get in trouble for it, and the cop said we would both go to jail for possession ?!?!?!!?
    what the hell?!?!?!/
    who is mis leading who?!?
    both of my brothers got there cc and were told you can oc at 18 and my brother is a lawyer and would tell me if something was wrong with my method.
    can anyone point me to the krs on open carrying a PISTOL at 18?
    i now know i cant rely on the florenece PD to know anything about oc.keep in mind the leo she asked was sheriff for burlington.

    who can lead me in the right direction?!?

  2. #2
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    Her first problem is that she asked a cop about the law. Don't do that. They have absolutely no obligation to be truthful.

    There is no law in Kentucky that restricts those who are above the age of 18 and that can legally possess a firearm from carrying a firearm.

    There is no law in Kentucky that requires one to be 21 years of age to possess or carry a handgun, only the Federal restriction from acquiring one through a FFL.

    No, I can't site any laws about this because we're still a fairly free society and laws are written to restrict our rights, not grant them.

  3. #3
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by righttobarearms View Post
    SO im 19 and been open carrying a PISTOL for a year now, no problems, but now my girlfriend is all concerned about it, here is the big picture,
    when i drive with her it is in the glove box and she is the driver, she recently ask a leo that always goes to her work if she or i would get in trouble for it, and the cop said we would both go to jail for possession ?!?!?!!?
    what the hell?!?!?!/
    who is mis leading who?!?
    both of my brothers got there cc and were told you can oc at 18 and my brother is a lawyer and would tell me if something was wrong with my method.
    can anyone point me to the krs on open carrying a PISTOL at 18?
    i now know i cant rely on the florenece PD to know anything about oc.keep in mind the leo she asked was sheriff for burlington.

    who can lead me in the right direction?!?
    she recently ask a leo that always goes to her work if she or i would get in trouble for it
    As the other poster said...never, never, I mean never ask LEO about law. Especially gun law. Google is a great tool and a printer is a great machine. Look up and print out the laws for yourself and read it often.

    and the cop said we would both go to jail for possession ?!?!?!!?
    Let him do it. Then you can enjoy the money you win against him in the civil suit.

    can anyone point me to the krs on open carrying a PISTOL at 18?
    Nope. The same way the cop can't show you a KRS that says it's illegal. Enjoy OC'ing your.gun.
    [/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah, buy a recorder... Record your entire day. Leave it running at all times.
    Last edited by self preservation; 01-14-2013 at 09:47 PM.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Never, repeat NEVER, ask a LEO a legal question.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Just in case no one has mentioned it yet, NEVER ask a LEO what is legal. "Law Enforcement Officer" is just their title, not their job description.

    While they are usually just ignorant, there are a few who will knowingly lie to you. And while it is illegal for us to lie to them, it is actually very legal for them to lie to us.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Can someone cite that glovebox carry is not concealed in KY for the OP?

    Edit. How about me?

    KRS § 527.020

    (8) A loaded or unloaded firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed
    concealed on or about the person if it is located in any enclosed container,
    compartment, or storage space installed as original equipment in a motor vehicle by
    its manufacturer, including but not limited to a glove compartment, center console,
    or seat pocket, regardless of whether said enclosed container, storage space, or
    compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism. No person
    or organization, public or private, shall prohibit a person from keeping a loaded or
    unloaded firearm or ammunition, or both, or other deadly weapon in a vehicle in
    accordance with the provisions of this subsection. Any attempt by a person or
    organization, public or private, to violate the provisions of this subsection may be
    the subject of an action for appropriate relief or for damages in a Circuit Court or
    District Court of competent jurisdiction. This subsection shall not apply to any
    person prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to KRS 527.040.
    Last edited by sharkey; 01-15-2013 at 01:05 AM.

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    527.100 Possession of handgun by minor.
    (1) A person is guilty of possession of a handgun by a minor when, being under the age
    of eighteen (18) years, he possesses, manufactures, or transports a handgun as
    defined by KRS 527.010, except when the person is:

    (a) In attendance at a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course;
    (b) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm, or target shooting at an
    established firing range, or any other area where the discharge of a firearm is
    not prohibited;
    (c) Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or
    participating in or practicing for a performance by a group organized under
    Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or any successor thereto
    which uses firearms as a part of the performance;
    (d) Hunting or trapping pursuant to a valid license issued to him pursuant to the
    statutes or administrative regulations of this Commonwealth;
    (e) Traveling to or from any activity described in paragraphs (a) to (d) of this
    subsection with any unloaded handgun in his possession;
    (f) On real property which is under the control of an adult and has the permission
    of that adult and his parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun; or
    (g) At his residence and with the permission of his parent or legal guardian
    possesses a handgun and is justified under the principles of justification set
    forth in KRS Chapter 503 in using physical force or deadly physical force.
    (2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a handgun is "loaded" if:
    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the handgun; or
    (b) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the handgun, if the handgun is a
    revolver; or
    (c) There is a cartridge in the magazine of a semiautomatic handgun, if the
    magazine is attached to the handgun; or
    (d) The handgun and the ammunition for the handgun, are carried on the person
    of one under the age of eighteen (18) years or are in such close proximity to
    him that he could readily gain access to the handgun and the ammunition and
    load the handgun.
    (3) Possession of a handgun by a minor is a Class A misdemeanor for the first offense
    and a Class D felony for each subsequent offense.
    Effective: July 15, 1994
    History: Created 1994 Ky. Acts ch. 30, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1994.





    That is as close as it gets to the law you want OP... ianal

    there is no possession of a handgun by a minor laws for people over 18.. why? same reason there aren't unicorns
    Last edited by kywildcat581; 01-15-2013 at 05:14 AM.
    I got a gun for my wife.. good trade!

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    Can someone cite that glovebox carry is not concealed in KY for the OP?

    Edit. How about me?

    KRS § 527.020
    (8) A loaded or unloaded firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person if it is located in any enclosed container, compartment, or storage space installed as original equipment in a motor vehicle by its manufacturer, including but not limited to a glove compartment, center console, or seat pocket, regardless of whether said enclosed container, storage space, or compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism.
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/527-00/020.PDF
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    I'm not really liking the attacks on Law Enforcement Officers primarily because of the fact I have family and may possibly be a LEO later in life. Not every LEO will be truthful, sure, but don't reply in the manner you have done so borderline attacking them. I have yet to meet a bad LEO that has provided false information to my questions.

    So let's rephrase what you all are saying

    If you ask a Leo, just be sure to cross reference KRS to check validity.

    Secondly, I told my girlfriend of 4 years that if she continued to mention my carrying of a Firearm we would no longer be dating. She shaped up quick and I've actually gotten her to OC a few times.
    I'll eat a little crow for one of my earlier post. I said something to the effect of not asking LEO's about gun law. I meant this as a general rule. Not all LEO's are dumb to gun law and not all of them will lie/make up their own "laws" on the spot. Some(most) LEO's know exactly what they are talking about. And for some if they don't know, they will simply tell you that they do not know. It wasn't fair of me to throw such a blanket term on LE. But as a general rule, IMHO, it's always best to check whats what for yourself and not solely rely on others to provide you with information.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  10. #10
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    I have yet to meet a bad LEO that has provided false information to my questions.
    I have. Even recorded him doing so. Proved him wrong at a later date. But I will admit that they (LEO's) are not all the same.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Trst of LEO

    If there was just one person who does not trust a LEO that would be one thing. When multiple people have the same opinion, the least any one should consider is that it might be possible all
    LEO might not be perfect.

    I am sure there are some fine upstanding officers out there somewhere, I have found one personally.

    I do believe each one probably starts out trying to be a good officer, and still believe the are doing what is best for the public. There in lies a large problem, at least in my opinion. The officer that told the young man that he could go to jail for possession of a fire arm or for having one in his glove box knew he was not telling the truth. He also truly believed he was doing the young man a favor by telling him an untruth. Then when this officer must either put up or shut up when faced with the decision to make an arrest for something which is not against the law, than eat crow, he will then cross the line and take an innocent person to jail. At that point instead of a DA or a judge stopping it, they feel as though they should back their officers at any cost. This is just one way people learn to distrust an officer instead of trust an officer.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    ...So let's rephrase what you all are saying

    If you ask a Leo, just be sure to ...
    I'm not rephrasing any of my truthful statements, which was not an attack.

    Legal advice is NOT the job of a LEO.

    And that's why few have useful knowledge of the law outside of the very common and very obvious offenses.

    Reread the OP and tell us there is any excuse for such misinformation.

    Now don't read into my post more than what was there. I did not say there was no reason not to trust a LEO. I simply delineated the difference between what is their actual job and what is often expected from them.

    LEOs perform a valuable service. But don't expect them to do more than they are empowered to do. That's half the reason why they usurp power, because we half-throw it at them.
    Last edited by MAC702; 01-15-2013 at 11:29 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    I'm not really liking the attacks on Law Enforcement Officers primarily because of the fact I have family and may possibly be a LEO later in life. Not every LEO will be truthful, sure, but don't reply in the manner you have done so borderline attacking them. I have yet to meet a bad LEO that has provided false information to my questions.

    So let's rephrase what you all are saying

    If you ask a Leo, just be sure to cross reference KRS to check validity.

    Secondly, I told my girlfriend of 4 years that if she continued to mention my carrying of a Firearm we would no longer be dating. She shaped up quick and I've actually gotten her to OC a few times.
    I am a LEO and I have no problem with what is being said.

    This is the truth, and you should NEVER ask an LEO if something is legal, illegal, constitutional, unconstitutional, and so on.

    I can assure you that you WILL meet an LEO that will give you false answers. Many in the field believe they should be the only ones with the right to carry firearms (although this is less common in Kentucky), and they will lie because they know most people respect the "authority" of an LEO and believe they know what they are speaking about.

    The problem is SOME officers no longer believe in conducting themselves as peace officers, but as the ones that can do as they please and arrest you for doing the same. I believe every officer should uphold their oath and be honest to the public who they have sworn to protect and SERVE. They are supposed to protect the rights of the People, not lie about and infringe upon those rights.

    Again, NEVER ask an LEO for legal advice, unless of course you know them and you know they would not lie just to push an agenda.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 01-15-2013 at 11:39 AM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I am a LEO.
    Did you get hired in with an agency? I know you had your sights set on KSP.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Never ask a LEO, an Attorney (unless you are paying him for that kind of legal advice), a worker at a gun store, or someone just because they own a firearm. It is not their job to know the law and as such many do not know it. Many think because they think you have to be 21 to buy a handgun (you don't have to be) then you cannot legally carry a firearm until you are 21 (you can).

    Or they know you have to be 21 to get a CDWL and think that is the only way to carry because that is the most widely used way.

    Or some just don't want you carrying for some reason or another.

    I have spent hours on the KRS website trying to know everything about gun laws in the state of Kentucky. Even people who know that I have will still argue with me. The boys at my favorite gun store argued with me because I was going to gift a pistol to my (still) under 21 year old girlfriend. They were saying that I could not legally gift it to someone under 21. Even though they had no proof they thought just because three of them agreed meant they were right.

    They still probably believe that as law.

    I have had THREE Sheriff deputies arguing with me that, being only 19 (at the time) I couldn't carry a handgun. One was doing everything in his power to take me to jail that night. They might have been misinformed, or they might have been on a power kick. But they were still wrong.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Did you get hired in with an agency? I know you had your sights set on KSP.
    Yes.

    I have to have 60 credit hours completed before I can go through the KSP academy. I am getting close but I'm not there yet. I have another semester and I will be finished with school.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 01-15-2013 at 04:31 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  17. #17
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Yes.

    I have to have 60 credit hours completed before I can go through the KSP academy. I am getting close but I'm not there yet. I have another semester and I will be finished with school.
    Good deal. So KSP has hired you? Best of luck to you.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Good deal. So KSP has hired you? Best of luck to you.
    No. I've been hired by another agency.

    I cannot go through the time consuming process with KSP until I have the full 60 credit hours.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    No. I've been hired by another agency.

    I cannot go through the time consuming process with KSP until I have the full 60 credit hours.
    Good luck. I remember my time at the academy very well. I would only advise you to go into this with a full knowledge of what you are asking for.

  20. #20
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    No. I've been hired by another agency.

    I cannot go through the time consuming process with KSP until I have the full 60 credit hours.
    Oh, I understand now. Sounds to me that your foot is in the door and you are on your way. I had to work for a few other, "similar line of work" places before I ended up with the department that I wanted. I have always enjoyed talking to you through OCDO and PM, but now with you being LEO I will have to plead the 5th and request an attorney before I say anything else to you. Just kidding.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOverlay View Post
    Good luck. I remember my time at the academy very well. I would only advise you to go into this with a full knowledge of what you are asking for.
    Thank you and I am VERY aware of what I am attempting to achieve. The real reason why I decided to return to college was so I can become a trooper quicker, with 60 credit hours instead of two whole years LEO experience, and so that I can achieve the rank of Senior Trooper in three years instead of five.

    It really turns my stomach when I hear of cadets that drop from the Academy after a week or two or that never show up at all. There are many people that would do almost anything to be where they had the chance to be and they act like it isn't a big deal to just drop out.

    I have ALWAYS wanted to become a Trooper, and I will try my best to achieve that goal. I certainly know I will NEVER give up once I get the chance to prove myself. KSP is well respected throughout the country and I will give it my all to be a part of the Kentucky State Police.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Thank you and I am VERY aware of what I am attempting to achieve. The real reason why I decided to return to college was so I can become a trooper quicker, with 60 credit hours instead of two whole years LEO experience, and so that I can achieve the rank of Senior Trooper in three years instead of five.

    It really turns my stomach when I hear of cadets that drop from the Academy after a week or two or that never show up at all. There are many people that would do almost anything to be where they had the chance to be and they act like it isn't a big deal to just drop out.

    I have ALWAYS wanted to become a Trooper, and I will try my best to achieve that goal. I certainly know I will NEVER give up once I get the chance to prove myself. KSP is well respected throughout the country and I will give it my all to be a part of the Kentucky State Police.
    Make it happen - appears that you are doing just that.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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