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Thread: When They Come For Your Guns...

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    When They Come For Your Guns...

    Here's a quote everybody in the country should read daily -
    "In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."-- Martin Niemöller
    Keeping those words in mind, be aware that -
    Barack finished up the final press conference of his first term. he referenced his executive power and stated, “How we are gathering data on guns that fall into the hands of criminals, how we track that.” He also boldly declared that executive action could be taken and that “there are some steps that we can take that don’t require legislation and that are within my authority as president.”
    Many folks have a lot more belief in what politicians say than do I. I read an article online today that I found quite interesting for several reasons, among which are the truth of it, and the courage it took to say what everybody has been "dancing around", hinting at, and speaking in code about. The code has finally been broken by a man named Tim Brown, and here are a few excerpts from that column...
    I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them.
    (Most of us are familiar with the following quote)
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin
    The article goes on to say -
    I think in 2012 we are seeing evidence of what Franklin was trying to tell us. Just because a majority of people may support certain ideas it does not mean that those ideas are just. In simple terms, just because most Americans love our president and voted for him, it does not mean that he has the power to go against our constitutional rights.Next I’d like to review the text of the second amendment. It is very clear. This is the law of this land. So when Senator Feinstein or President Obama talk about taking your guns, you need to think about something. Are they honoring their sworn oath to uphold the constitution?
    Mr. Brown can be viewed in several conflicting ways - as a Constitution believing patriot, as a "rabble-rouser", inciting people to resist the government, or as some "nut-job whacko terrorist", depending upon one's individual interpretation of the Constitution and their personal perspective on the RKBA. Brown gets quite heated in explaining his position, and I would recommend that everyone take a look at the complete article (which is referenced and linked in the final quote above). We all know that there are "lists" and Brown is undoubtedly on several agencies list - and he knows it. To me it sounds like the "cold, dead fingers" scenario. Just my thoughts. Pax...




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    While a great quote, there is zero evidence that Franklin ever discussed the eating habits of wolves and lambs. The earliest known use of those words is 1992. I think Franklin passed on somewhat earlier.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    While a great quote, there is zero evidence that Franklin ever discussed the eating habits of wolves and lambs. The earliest known use of those words is 1992. I think Franklin passed on somewhat earlier.
    Regardless of who wrote a quote, what are you thoughts on the subject?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I think Franklin passed on somewhat earlier.
    Debatable.


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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    ""I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them.""

    I think "rising up" against anyone is a bit frightening for most.
    I do not think we have all the facts, they seem to be hiding things.
    I think complacent Americans will sit back and LET them take the weapons. People talk a good game, some email, some call or write. They keep telling us that the majority of the population wants More Gun Laws. I just do not see that. I see the government doing what they want to do and then shove it down our throats.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    When They Come For Your Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Regardless of who wrote a quote, what are you thoughts on the subject?
    The quote precisely describes why we should not be a democracy. Democracies are nations of men. The Republic that we were intended to be was a nation of laws.

    Franklin might well have said something similar, except the word "lunch" would be unknown to him.


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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Rather than staying focused on the principle expressed by the quote, our concerns seem to have shifted to the author...
    The earliest known similar statements are:
    • A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
      • Gary Strand, Usenet group sci.environment, 23 April 1990.

    • Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
      • Marvin Simkin, "Individual Rights", Los Angeles Times, 12 January 1992

    There is no documented provenance for Franklin ever having said that, or anything remotely similar. That doesn't make the quote itself irrelevant to today's political climate, and it is a reminder of WHY we were not founded as a Democracy. Pax...
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    Regular Member sparkman2's Avatar
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    When they come for mine

    Excuses I will try:
    1. It broke so I threw it away.
    2. Went on a canoe trip and it fell over the side.
    3. My dog ate it.

    and if they don't work there is always

    Molon Labe female dogs!!
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." Thomas Jefferson (quoting Cesare Beccaria)

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    When They Come For Your Guns...

    The bloodshed will start small, and people will think "oh, it was an extremist gun nut" that shot the agents, at his door to "seize illegal assault weapons". After that, more and more, agents will hesitate and politicians will die. The People will assert themselves, as they should have when FISA and the Patriot Act came about. We have allowed out representatives to become our rulers.

    When politics breaks down, and the government tries to rule the people in a way contrary to how reasonable men (and women) agree is reasonable and right, I predict an uprising. Hopefully it will resolve through the ballot box, but I fear it may take blood to protect our rights. And I do not want that, but would prefer it to the entire country "falling in line" behind New York.

    On a sad note, the underhanded way the new NY law was passed is emblematic of the problem with our representatives. If they truly intended to do as we want, not as they think expedient, the bill would not have been introduced after dark last night, passed by both houses and signed in under 24 hours.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    The bloodshed will start small, and people will think "oh, it was an extremist gun nut" that shot the agents, at his door to "seize illegal assault weapons". After that, more and more, agents will hesitate and politicians will die. The People will assert themselves, as they should have when FISA and the Patriot Act came about. We have allowed out representatives to become our rulers.

    When politics breaks down, and the government tries to rule the people in a way contrary to how reasonable men (and women) agree is reasonable and right, I predict an uprising. Hopefully it will resolve through the ballot box, but I fear it may take blood to protect our rights. And I do not want that, but would prefer it to the entire country "falling in line" behind New York.

    On a sad note, the underhanded way the new NY law was passed is emblematic of the problem with our representatives. If they truly intended to do as we want, not as they think expedient, the bill would not have been introduced after dark last night, passed by both houses and signed in under 24 hours.
    NY passed their Law through a Republican majority in one of the chambers; isn't that lovely?

    I'm eager to watch the vast majority of gun owners sit down, and shut up if a confiscation occurred, and the ones who "rise-up," will get their collective ass handed to them. Let's take a step back from this, for a bit...

    They aren't coming for your firearms. Is a ban on AR style rifle, "coming for your firearms?" No. It's a ban on AR style firearms. They would have to go door-to-door to, "come for your firearms."--it won't happen. I'm eagerly waiting to watch nothing really happen, and all the fear-mongering nonsense come smashing down on the faces of the dopes that went out, and stocked-up on AR's, paying top dollar for them.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Sorry man...sold them all. Shrug...can't help you....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    NY passed their Law through a Republican majority in one of the chambers; isn't that lovely?

    I'm eager to watch the vast majority of gun owners sit down, and shut up if a confiscation occurred, and the ones who "rise-up," will get their collective ass handed to them. Let's take a step back from this, for a bit...

    They aren't coming for your firearms. Is a ban on AR style rifle, "coming for your firearms?" No. It's a ban on AR style firearms. They would have to go door-to-door to, "come for your firearms."--it won't happen. I'm eagerly waiting to watch nothing really happen, and all the fear-mongering nonsense come smashing down on the faces of the dopes that went out, and stocked-up on AR's, paying top dollar for them.
    Really? so lets say they dont come to take them.They still will be illegal.You can have it but when you die the gov.gets them. Thats NOT being a free people! It just really shows how clueless some people are. No they werent a Republican majority. Its NEW YORK, which vote time and time again for the same tyrants, now we have to deal with this ass hat in the whitehouse, thanks. Even if ass hat cant do anything, doesnt mean he doesnt want to. Wake up!!

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    Really? so lets say they dont come to take them.They still will be illegal.You can have it but when you die the gov.gets them. Thats NOT being a free people! It just really shows how clueless some people are. No they werent a Republican majority. Its NEW YORK, which vote time and time again for the same tyrants, now we have to deal with this ass hat in the whitehouse, thanks. Even if ass hat cant do anything, doesnt mean he doesnt want to. Wake up!!
    Not necessarily. Who--that is in a position of pushing a policy to it's conclusion--has proposed making AR style rifles, already owned by citizens, illegal?--President Obama hasn't.

    I agree, some people are clueless. It was passed through the NY House (if I remember correctly), and it is a Republican majority.

    I never stated President Obama would like to go further than he has, but he can't. I'm not concerned--I will leave that to you. I have enough things to worry about, real things, that can actually happen.

    "It is well-balanced, it protects the Second Amendment," said Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos of Long Island. "And there is no confiscation of weapons, which was at one time being considered.
    Well balanced, and protects the Second Amendment...some would argue otherwise.

    SCOTUS may take it up, some day...SCOTUS will likely Find it Constitutional, IMO.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-15-2013 at 09:50 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm eager to watch the vast majority of gun owners sit down, and shut up if a confiscation occurred, and the ones who "rise-up," will get their collective ass handed to them. Let's take a step back from this, for a bit...

    They aren't coming for your firearms. Is a ban on AR style rifle, "coming for your firearms?" No. It's a ban on AR style firearms. They would have to go door-to-door to, "come for your firearms."--it won't happen. I'm eagerly waiting to watch nothing really happen, and all the fear-mongering nonsense come smashing down on the faces of the dopes that went out, and stocked-up on AR's, paying top dollar for them.
    In NY the ban covers pistols too if they have a detachable magazine. Glock has a bayonet that attaches by a rail. Thats one, your gone! If you think the NY laws are bad, wait till wednesday when barry hits the entire nation with a similar edict. The below is directly from the NY bill.

    "" The "one-feature" test would ban semi-automatic guns with
    detachable magazines that possess one feature commonly associated
    with military weapons
    . This section also adds to the list of
    "features" that characterize a banned weapon.""
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm eager to watch the vast majority of gun owners sit down, and shut up if a confiscation occurred, and the ones who "rise-up," will get their collective ass handed to them. Let's take a step back from this, for a bit...

    They aren't coming for your firearms. Is a ban on AR style rifle, "coming for your firearms?" No. It's a ban on AR style firearms. They would have to go door-to-door to, "come for your firearms."--it won't happen. I'm eagerly waiting to watch nothing really happen, and all the fear-mongering nonsense come smashing down on the faces of the dopes that went out, and stocked-up on AR's, paying top dollar for them.
    do you ever have anything new to say Miss Feinstein? you repeat the same BS over and over and over, almost word for word. try expanding your vocabulary a little, try expressing variants of similar ideas, or even new ideas. and yes, a ban on AR style rifles IS "coming for my firearms", because of many reasons like: it is the most popular and common firearm in the entire country, it is a FIREARM.
    they have already gone door to door to collect firearms in multiple areas, especially during Katrina.

    you severely underestimate the "ones who rise up", which would include almost all gun STORE owners, who have almost definitely stocked up on supplies themselves, among a trillion other things and ideas and training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    SCOTUS may take it up, some day...SCOTUS will likely Find it Constitutional, IMO.
    SCOTUS has ALREADY taken it up, a couple times, and determined it UNconstitutional.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    In NY the ban covers pistols too if they have a detachable magazine. Glock has a bayonet that attaches by a rail. Thats one, your gone! If you think the NY laws are bad, wait till wednesday when barry hits the entire nation with a similar edict. The below is directly from the NY bill.

    "" The "one-feature" test would ban semi-automatic guns with
    detachable magazines that possess one feature commonly associated
    with military weapons
    . This section also adds to the list of
    "features" that characterize a banned weapon.""
    "That's one, your gone!" is a reference to my Beretta? Wrong! First, I live in Washington, not NY. Two, my Beretta doesn't have a rail. Maybe I'm missing something in the quote you offered. Three, nothing much will happen Wednesday.--there will be talk, and not much walk...on both sides; including 1776 Jones types.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-15-2013 at 10:08 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    do you ever have anything new to say Miss Feinstein? you repeat the same BS over and over and over, almost word for word. try expanding your vocabulary a little, try expressing variants of similar ideas, or even new ideas. and yes, a ban on AR style rifles IS "coming for my firearms", because of many reasons like: it is the most popular and common firearm in the entire country, it is a FIREARM.
    they have already gone door to door to collect firearms in multiple areas, especially during Katrina.
    Yes, AR's are firearms. Yes, 'they' did, locally, go door-to-door to collect firearms--at least that's what I heard.

    you severely underestimate the "ones who rise up", which would include almost all gun STORE owners, who have almost definitely stocked up on supplies themselves, among a trillion other things and ideas and training.
    The ones who rise up will be a small percentage of firearm owners. Seriously, you really believe there is going to be a huge uprise if there is some form of AWB implemented--there won't be, but IF--like the AWB of the early nineties? Get a freaking grip, please.

    Prediction: Wednesday, there will be much stated, but little action taken--on both sides. Alex Jones types will live to fight another day, post fear-mongerring delirium.




    SCOTUS has ALREADY taken it up, a couple times, and determined it UNconstitutional.
    hook, line, and sinker...I knew someone would jump on this. You didn't offer any examples...I'm guessing, hmm, Chicago...DC?

    First, Chicago was a split decision, hardly a strong Finding. Let's look at what SCOTUS had to state, in their split decision:

    The Supreme Court reversed the Seventh Circuit, holding that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense applicable to the states. With Justice Samuel A. Alito writing for the majority, the Court reasoned that rights that are "fundamental to the Nation's scheme of ordered liberty" or that are "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" are appropriately applied to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court recognized in Heller that the right to self-defense was one such "fundamental" and "deeply rooted" right. The Court reasoned that because of its holding in Heller, the Second Amendment applied to the states. Here, the Court remanded the case to the Seventh Circuit to determine whether Chicago's handgun ban violated an individual's right to keep and bear arms for self-defense. http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2009/2009_08_1521
    I see, so, an outright ban is not Constitutional.

    NY's move, if it is not an outright ban, is likely Constitutional.

    BTW, the issues confronted were the Right to Self-Defense, and whether a total ban on handguns is Constitutional. The Finding spoke nothing to the potential restrictions the State can impose regarding the types of handguns.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 01-15-2013 at 10:29 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    In NY the ban covers pistols too if they have a detachable magazine. Glock has a bayonet that attaches by a rail.
    I have a pistol bayonet that I picked up as a joke. Really it can attach to ANY gun that has a rail. Which means that pretty much any gun with a picatinny rail can have a bayonet...

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Berrettachic, you are exactly like every politician I've ever heard open their mouth, and are actually quoting the same things as them to intentionally deceive the common public.
    I suppose you're intentionally leaving out the very specific part about the Heller case deeming it UNconstitutional to ban ANY firearm that "is in common use".
    ar = firearm. ar = the most popular (common) firearm in america. it can't get any simpler than that, yet you still repeat the same BS ad intentionally deceive everyone into thinking everything the Gov is attempting to do is actually legitimately reasonable and constitutional.

    I again for the fifteenth time have called you Feinstein, and you still have yet to ever comment on that. your true colors are becoming obvious

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    When They Come For Your Guns...

    hey how bout we just ignore the idiot child girl and not quote her posts or acknowledge her existence, maybe then she will disappear just like her soon to be banned pistol she so lovingly strokes (vomiting as we speak)
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    hey how bout we just ignore the idiot child girl and not quote her posts or acknowledge her existence
    I'm in, problem is it's near impossible to get every person to follow suit. that, and it'll just allow her to run rampant and uncontrolled, doing whatever she pleases. we can't have that now, can we? (notice the hint of sarcasm in relation to current events)

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    When They Come For Your Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    I'm in, problem is it's near impossible to get every person to follow suit. that, and it'll just allow her to run rampant and uncontrolled, doing whatever she pleases. we can't have that now, can we? (notice the hint of sarcasm in relation to current events)
    lol, thats when we get mods to filter the useless bullsh!t that spews forth from her empty cavern and delete her posts.

    look at it this way, she will get to post her crap freely, it will just be put in the cylindrical file bin quickly.
    Last edited by PFC HALE; 01-16-2013 at 04:55 AM.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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    Actually in the year plus time I've been lurking I've found Beretta92FSLady to be generally well mannered, versed and spoken.

    I feel that those who ignore, or respond logically to irrational vitriolic posts from those like the three above myself present themselves as better human beings in the long run.

    Beretta92FSLady, thank you for nearly always posting and replying such a very civilized fashion.
    Last edited by KTCerberus; 01-16-2013 at 05:30 AM.

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    Regular Member PFC HALE's Avatar
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    When They Come For Your Guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by KTCerberus View Post
    Actually in the year plus time I've been lurking I've found Beretta92FSLady to be generally well mannered, versed and spoken.

    I feel that those who ignore, or respond logically to irrational vitriolic posts from those like the three above myself present themselves as better human beings in the long run.

    Beretta92FSLady, thank you for nearly always posting and replying such a very civilized fashion.
    she might be well mannered but that is no excuse for the flip flopped rambling of incoherent nonsense she so religiously tries to fool us into believing. how can anybody backup someone who plays both sides in the same postings? if we were arguing that the sky is blue and the sun will supernova in a billion years, she will swear that the sky is orange yet agree with you that its blue and that the sun could never supernova and when it does she will be exempt from it.

    not sure if you are putting us down or are in agreement with us?
    Last edited by PFC HALE; 01-16-2013 at 06:26 AM.
    HOPE FOR THE BEST, EXPECT THE WORST, PREPARE FOR WAR

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    <snip> They keep telling us that the majority of the population wants More Gun Laws. I just do not see that. I see the government doing what they want to do and then shove it down our throats.
    The majority of liberals in this nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    NY passed their Law through a Republican majority in one of the chambers; isn't that lovely? <snip>
    "New York" and "Republican".....that right there is hi-larrious.

    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    hey how bout we just ignore the idiot child girl and not quote her posts or acknowledge her existence, maybe then she will disappear just like her soon to be banned pistol she so lovingly strokes (vomiting as we speak)
    Instead of talikng about ignoring our resident #1 liberal, how about simply ignoring her.

    Quote Originally Posted by PFC HALE View Post
    lol, thats when we get mods to filter the useless bullsh!t that spews forth from her empty cavern and delete her posts.

    look at it this way, she will get to post her crap freely, it will just be put in the cylindrical file bin quickly.
    Not liberty centric. The call to silence a citizen. Liberal tactic. B92FSL has never gone there to my knowledge and she is a liberal.

    Quote Originally Posted by KTCerberus View Post
    Actually in the year plus time I've been lurking I've found Beretta92FSLady to be generally well mannered, versed and spoken.

    I feel that those who ignore, or respond logically to irrational vitriolic posts from those like the three above myself present themselves as better human beings in the long run.

    Beretta92FSLady, thank you for nearly always posting and replying such a very civilized fashion.
    Are you referring to the same B92FSL that posts here?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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