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Thread: Now is the time to file Notice of Trespasses to your law enforcement departments

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    Now is the time to file Notice of Trespasses to your law enforcement departments

    This will disallow those anticipated knock on your door to ask you about your guns.

    File them with state, county, and local PDs and towns.

    Then if they come onto your land THEY are the criminals....

    I filed mine months ago to keep town officials, local PD, state PD off my land. And when they did come a-knockin I immediately said that they are trespassers and need to remove themselves immediately !
    And they leave w/o incident (most of the time).

    Its just a letter informing them to stay off your land ... label it "Notice of Trespass" and make sure it notes all employees of the governmental body are not allowed on your land...

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    Can you cite the law in any particular State where such action would be binding against LEOs and under what circumstances it would and would not be binding?

    Otherwise, this is just a bunch of Internet bluster.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Can you cite the law in any particular State where such action would be binding against LEOs and under what circumstances it would and would not be binding?

    Otherwise, this is just a bunch of Internet bluster.
    I've heard the rumors of this also, I agree with Eye95's question.

    Might it be like a restraining order? Then would you not need a court ruling to make it binding?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    I can't find any specific statutes or laws regarding this to be able to directly quote, but I do know as common knowledge that in most parts of the country if you tell a person or organization or business of some type that they are not allowed on your property at any point in time ever, then they are in fact legally considered trespassing if 'they' ever step foot on your property ever again for infinity. 'they' meaning any employee of said company or any member of said organization.
    this means that after the first and only time of saying it, anytime said person steps onto the property they are automatically criminally trespassing whether you as the owner are present or not

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    Now is the time to file Notice of Trespasses to your law enforcement departments

    The problem is that the OP is suggesting a behavior that, if carried to its logical conclusion, could result in the homeowner committing a crime if the LEO is acting lawfully in a situation where he may not be trespassed and the homeowner refuses to comply with lawful orders, thinking that the LEO is not allowed on his property.

    So, unless the OP can cite specific laws in specific jurisdictions, he is spewing dangerous Internet bluster. He either needs to cite to authority or stop making legal assertions.


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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    +1
    Last edited by georg jetson; 01-16-2013 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The problem is that the OP is suggesting a behavior that, if carried to its logical conclusion, could result in the homeowner committing a crime if the LEO is acting lawfully in a situation where he may not be trespassed and the homeowner refuses to comply with lawful orders, thinking that the LEO is not allowed on his property.

    So, unless the OP can cite specific laws in specific jurisdictions, he is spewing dangerous Internet bluster. He either needs to cite to authority or stop making legal assertions.


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    +1

    I can see a trespass notice solving knock-and-talks where the fuzz has neither warrant nor warrant clause exception. But, I cannot see a trespass notice standing up against a cop armed with warrant or a warrant clause exception. If a trespass notice was useful against these, criminals would have figured it out centuries ago.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I will not waste my time with your absurd contention. Other than to simply provide a Missouri example.

    FUQ - For our fussbudgety members.
    Missouri Revised Statutes
    Chapter 60
    County Surveyors and Land Surveys
    Section 60.580

    Right of entry, immune to trespass arrest.

    All department of natural resources employees are immune from arrest for trespass in performing their legal duties as stated in sections 60.510 to 60.620 and section 60.670.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C000-099/0600000580.HTM
    I respectfully recommend that you research your state statutes and determine what the law states regarding trespass.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I will not waste my time with your absurd contention. Other than to simply provide a Missouri example.

    FUQ - For our fussbudgety members.I respectfully recommend that you research your state statutes and determine what the law states regarding trespass.
    I'm kinda thinking you don't even have to go that far. Just verbally notify the cops that they're trespassing when they show up. Its worked for me a couple times. In fact, the first time, I didn't even have to use the word trespass.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'm kinda thinking you don't even have to go that far. Just verbally notify the cops that they're trespassing when they show up. Its worked for me a couple times. In fact, the first time, I didn't even have to use the word trespass.
    True, as long as the nice officer/deputy is agreeable to your request. But, trespassing don't mean nuttin if the threat of arrest for refusing to leave is not real.

    The OP's contention prompted me to respectfully recommend that he research his state's trespass laws. He just might learn something.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    True, as long as the nice officer/deputy is agreeable to your request. But, trespassing don't mean nuttin if the threat of arrest for refusing to leave is not real.

    The OP's contention prompted me to respectfully recommend that he research his state's trespass laws. He just might learn something.
    Sure.

    But, as I think more about it, it occurs to me that one need not have a genuine ability to arrest or convict. If it works in the reader's state, he could always just record the repeated refusals to leave, then hike down to the nearest magistrate and swear out a warrant. Even if the magistrate refuses, the cops will sit up and take notice of the attempt. Especially when you include the attempt in a formal written complaint to internal affairs along with the recording.

    Often, just making yourself a bureaucratic pain-in-the-butt, will deter abuse. It also makes them recognize, "Oh, jeez. We gotta be careful with this one. He's willing to fight back." I strongly suspect that "fight back" reputation is the main reason OCers are generally left alone by cops. I think there are lots of cops who routinely violated 4A rights on other people as a matter of course in their daily activities. Then one fine day one of them bangs into an OCer, starts to pull his usual rights-violating tactics, and suddenly discovers those tactics don't work because the OCer knows his rights, and is willing to make noise about it by way of formal written complaint or lawsuit. I think the same can apply to any situation with cops, not just OC.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    I carry a digital audio recorder with me 24/7 for this reason and so many others.
    standard self pat-down anytime I go anywhere: gun, recorder, cell, wallet, keys. and while within my own home, all of these are either on me or within arms reach
    Last edited by motoxmann; 01-16-2013 at 03:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Can you cite the law in any particular State where such action would be binding against LEOs and under what circumstances it would and would not be binding?

    Otherwise, this is just a bunch of Internet bluster.
    The right to post no trespassing signs and notices of trespass is a common law right...so unless a law was passed countering this right then the right still exists.

    Once should check their local laws of course ...

    A notice would be binding in many states..then a LEO would need PC or a warrant or chasing a criminal to enter your property.

    I had so many gov't trespassers I got tired of telling them to get off ... plus once a notice is filed then its on the record .. they cannot say "he never told me that" garbage.

    Hardly "dangerous" to file one even in states where it has no legal meaning .. it would just be a worthless filing having no legal effect... I always tell folks "hey, you're trespassing, get off my land" anyhow.

    If gun grabs start and you are in a state/location that allows an enforcement of a notice, then you are on a better legal footing to tell them to get off your land ('cause they should not be there w/o PC or a warrant anyway).

    I always assume they have PC when I confront them - its up to them to example it to me immediately and if they cannot .. I resist any further encroachment onto my land. I have not had one continuing an encroachment so a citizen's arrest was never needed in this type of situation but I am certainly willing and able to respond to a trespasser. (a notice loses its effect if you continue to allow trespassers onto the property w/o enforcing the notice). And some states require a notice to be refiled every so often.

    Its not hard to understand the processes ... one just has to expend a little energy in finding out the right way of doing it at their location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'm kinda thinking you don't even have to go that far. Just verbally notify the cops that they're trespassing when they show up. Its worked for me a couple times. In fact, the first time, I didn't even have to use the word trespass.
    If you are not home? They'll be peeking into your windows .... just saying, I have seen it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The right to post no trespassing signs and notices of trespass is a common law right...so unless a law was passed countering this right then the right still exists.

    Once should check their local laws of course ...

    A notice would be binding in many states..then a LEO would need PC or a warrant or chasing a criminal to enter your property.

    I had so many gov't trespassers I got tired of telling them to get off ... plus once a notice is filed then its on the record .. they cannot say "he never told me that" garbage.

    Hardly "dangerous" to file one even in states where it has no legal meaning .. it would just be a worthless filing having no legal effect... I always tell folks "hey, you're trespassing, get off my land" anyhow.

    If gun grabs start and you are in a state/location that allows an enforcement of a notice, then you are on a better legal footing to tell them to get off your land ('cause they should not be there w/o PC or a warrant anyway).

    I always assume they have PC when I confront them - its up to them to example it to me immediately and if they cannot .. I resist any further encroachment onto my land. I have not had one continuing an encroachment so a citizen's arrest was never needed in this type of situation but I am certainly willing and able to respond to a trespasser. (a notice loses its effect if you continue to allow trespassers onto the property w/o enforcing the notice). And some states require a notice to be refiled every so often.

    Its not hard to understand the processes ... one just has to expend a little energy in finding out the right way of doing it at their location.
    I see that you failed to cite any law to support your dangerous contention.

    Folks, do not believe for one second that trespassing LEO's means that they cannot be on your property or that you will be free from prosecution if you interfere with a LEO, thinking that having trespassed him would protect you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I see that you failed to cite any law to support your dangerous contention.

    Folks, do not believe for one second that trespassing LEO's means that they cannot be on your property or that you will be free from prosecution if you interfere with a LEO, thinking that having trespassed him would protect you.
    Yes, I did cite law - common law.

    And I advised people to review this issue.

    And I have booted off LEO's, Treasury agents, FBI agents from my properties ... I'm fine !

    eye95 implies that LEO's can enter your land and house w/o resistance. But he states no law, because there is no law supporting this. In Indiana a few years back, this is what the IN supreme court ruled (no resistance) but the legislature was so aghast at this ruling that they passed a law in like 10 seconds after the court's opinion was published.

    You are not interfering with a LEO if he is illegally there ... you are dealing with a criminal.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Yes, I did cite law - common law.

    And I advised people to review this issue.

    And I have booted off LEO's, Treasury agents, FBI agents from my properties ... I'm fine !

    eye95 implies that LEO's can enter your land and house w/o resistance. But he states no law, because there is no law supporting this. In Indiana a few years back, this is what the IN supreme court ruled (no resistance) but the legislature was so aghast at this ruling that they passed a law in like 10 seconds after the court's opinion was published.

    You are not interfering with a LEO if he is illegally there ... you are dealing with a criminal.
    Actually, I'm more interested in why you seem to have so many encounters with federal agencies, what exactly are you doing that's getting you so much attention? maybe not doing whatever you're doing would be more effective then counting on "common-law notice of trespass" just sayin'
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Actually, I'm more interested in why you seem to have so many encounters with federal agencies, what exactly are you doing that's getting you so much attention? maybe not doing whatever you're doing would be more effective then counting on "common-law notice of trespass" just sayin'
    Federal agencies .. all long stories my friend...I have not had an issue with feds in over 15 years...

    You protect your property as you see fit ... I'll do the same. But don't come crying to me when LEOs bust down your door...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ...eye95 implies that LEO's can enter your land and house w/o resistance...
    I said no such thing. Nor did I imply it.

    However, I will flat-out say that there are circumstances where they may indeed enter your land or house, with resistance on your part being lawfully met with force, up to an including deadly force, and criminal charges against a surviving resistor. Examples: They are lawfully serving a warrant. Or they are lawfully reacting to exigent circumstances.

    Folks, don't let lawyer wannabes convince you that you are legally able to do things that could actually get you killed. Make them cite law that very specifically states what recourses you have to officers knocking on your door.

    Moving on--unless you decide to lie about what I said again. Then I'll ask the admins to take action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I said no such thing. Nor did I imply it.

    However, I will flat-out say that there are circumstances where they may indeed enter your land or house, with resistance on your part being lawfully met with force, up to an including deadly force, and criminal charges against a surviving resistor. Examples: They are lawfully serving a warrant. Or they are lawfully reacting to exigent circumstances.

    Folks, don't let lawyer wannabes convince you that you are legally able to do things that could actually get you killed. Make them cite law that very specifically states what recourses you have to officers knocking on your door.

    Moving on--unless you decide to lie about what I said again. Then I'll ask the admins to take action.
    +1

    There is extensive case law (court opinions) about cops' authority to enter your land, curtilage*, and home. This stuff has been argued and appealed to no end by defense attorneys trying to overturn convictions for something the cops saw when they entered curtilage or a home. Lots and lots and lots of cases on this. As Eye95 points out, there are indeed situations where cops can enter your home legally, over top of you and your refused consent, without a warrant. Physically resisting can get you hurt, and likely an obstruction charge at a minimum.


    *Curtilage has a specific legal definition that probably varies a little from state to state, so this is just a general comment. Curtilage is the ground around your home that you use in the ordinary course of daily living, as compared to say the back forty. It is important because that is where the legal protections for search and seizure start coming into play, the curtilage being more protected than your open fields. And, your home is more protected.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I said no such thing. Nor did I imply it.

    However, I will flat-out say that there are circumstances where they may indeed enter your land or house, with resistance on your part being lawfully met with force, up to an including deadly force, and criminal charges against a surviving resistor. Examples: They are lawfully serving a warrant. Or they are lawfully reacting to exigent circumstances.

    Folks, don't let lawyer wannabes convince you that you are legally able to do things that could actually get you killed. Make them cite law that very specifically states what recourses you have to officers knocking on your door.
    .
    Are YOU a lawyer? Did I not state to check local laws? You are putting words in MY mouth. "make them cite law...." ... I need not do this ... what you want me to examine every law in the country?

    And I certainly did say that LEO's may have a right to be on your land ... but in reality, most of the time -- when a LEO is on your land for legally recognized purposes in conflict with a notice, one would likely already know why they are there.

    Some people on this forum are getting to be trolls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Are YOU a lawyer? Did I not state to check local laws? You are putting words in MY mouth. "make them cite law...." ... I need not do this ... what you want me to examine every law in the country?

    And I certainly did say that LEO's may have a right to be on your land ... but in reality, most of the time -- when a LEO is on your land for legally recognized purposes in conflict with a notice, one would likely already know why they are there.

    Some people on this forum are getting to be trolls.

    Huh? Do you really expect readers to memorize the rafts and rafts of case law on curtilage and exingent circumstances so they can figure out whether the cop has genuine legal authority to bypass your trespass notice or refused consent? Really?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Huh? Do you really expect readers to memorize the rafts and rafts of case law on curtilage and exingent circumstances so they can figure out whether the cop has genuine legal authority to bypass your trespass notice or refused consent? Really?
    Exactly my point ... one should familiarize themselves and re-familiarize themselves with this subject matter over time...as the law changes...its beyond this forum IMO to do a full examination..

    Best to examine this aspect of your rights before the cops start trying to gain entry into your dwelling, right? Otherwise it could put one into a sticky situation.

    And yes, people should know their rights and legal options ... I think everyone would agree with this ...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    LE enters upon you property because you or yours are their focus. Or, you and yours are not their focus but another who they witness has, or they reasonably believe has entered upon your property. In any case, we are bound to gain a redress of wrongs, if any have occurred, via the legal process.

    Remember, cops will not be held to meaningful account for any good faith mistakes.

    http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/01/1...me-by-mistake/
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Sure.

    But, as I think more about it, it occurs to me that one need not have a genuine ability to arrest or convict. If it works in the reader's state, he could always just record the repeated refusals to leave, then hike down to the nearest magistrate and swear out a warrant. Even if the magistrate refuses, the cops will sit up and take notice of the attempt. Especially when you include the attempt in a formal written complaint to internal affairs along with the recording.

    Often, just making yourself a bureaucratic pain-in-the-butt, will deter abuse. It also makes them recognize, "Oh, jeez. We gotta be careful with this one. He's willing to fight back." I strongly suspect that "fight back" reputation is the main reason OCers are generally left alone by cops. I think there are lots of cops who routinely violated 4A rights on other people as a matter of course in their daily activities. Then one fine day one of them bangs into an OCer, starts to pull his usual rights-violating tactics, and suddenly discovers those tactics don't work because the OCer knows his rights, and is willing to make noise about it by way of formal written complaint or lawsuit. I think the same can apply to any situation with cops, not just OC.

    Wish we could do this in my area.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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