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Thread: Revive HB 5232 of 2009

  1. #1
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    Revive HB 5232 of 2009

    In 2009, HB 5232 was introduced in the Michigan State Legislature. This bill is similar to the bill passed in Wyoming; it protects Michigan citizens from Federal interference of gun commerce originating within the State. Wyoming has gone on and reintroduced a bill to include 'owners', thus protecting not only commerce but its citizens as well.

    Please contact your legislators re: re-introduction.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(xxz...e=2009-hb-5232

    Carry on.

    J

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Revive HB 5232 of 2009

    It's going to be introduced soon by Senator Pavlov, IIRC.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Can we get confirmations from Michigan gun organizations that they will not allow criminalization of OC in PFZ's, or any other anti gun-rights compromises, in order to get this legislation passed?

    I am quite seriously asking for this. I am not being facetious.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Revive HB 5232 of 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Can we get confirmations from Michigan gun organizations that they will not allow criminalization of OC in PFZ's, or any other anti gun-rights compromises, in order to get this legislation passed?

    I am quite seriously asking for this. I am not being facetious.
    Can we get a commitment from you to not duplicate posts?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Can we get a commitment from you to not duplicate posts?
    The question is the same, but it is relevant to each new proposed legislation since Michigan gun organizations established that they may compromise OC to get proposals passed.

    So, while my question is the same, it certainly is a very relevant question to get an answer on for each proposal, right?
    Last edited by DanM; 01-17-2013 at 07:53 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    The question is the same, but it is relevant to each new proposed legislation since Michigan gun organizations established that they may compromise OC to get proposals passed.

    So, while my question is the same, it certainly is a very relevant question to get an answer on for each proposal, right?
    Ease up, gentlemen.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  7. #7
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Ease up, gentlemen.
    SB, such feedback does not distinguish whether or not I am approaching being sanctioned for my posts. I'm sincerely interested in knowing if any of my posts are nearly grounds for deletion or having the thread closed. I would prefer you quote exactly what I wrote and point out the offense I'm potentially headed for. It is important for me to understand, so that I may post my legitimate questions or points in a way that avoids justifiable sanction.
    Last edited by DanM; 01-17-2013 at 10:33 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    SB, such feedback does not distinguish whether or not I am approaching being sanctioned for my posts. I'm sincerely interested in knowing if any of my posts are nearly grounds for deletion or having the thread closed. I would prefer you quote exactly what I wrote and point out the offense I'm potentially headed for. It is important for me to understand, so that I may post my legitimate questions or points in a way that avoids justifiable sanction.
    Notice, I used the plural gentleMEN.....The Q, included.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  9. #9
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Notice, I used the plural gentleMEN.....The Q, included.
    I know. I am wondering what portion of my posts caused you to include me in your admonishment. I don't see anything I've written which need elicit a warning to me from you.

    Please leave me out of your moderating unless I, myself, post something objectively needing moderation. That's what I'm asking for: please quote material from me that you believe, from a moderator viewpoint, is not allowable.

    I respect this site and I'm here to learn if something I post is not allowable. Please quote my content that you perceive is not allowable.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Its whatever post I disagree with. Bye bye gone..
    joke but then again looking at my sb59 post which was one of many that we're closed to stop debate on it. I'm in the belief this is how Michigan is now moderated? It was closed bringing virtually the same thing Dan is saying today. I still think its quite disgusting that Michigan Open Carry supported a bill that criminalized open carry for the first time ever in Michigan in PFZs. Talk about a bill that contained a specific clause that couldn't be more contrary from what MOCs goals are. This forum is dead in my opinion. It only fosters arguments and fighting. Real discussions and debates on subjects don't happen here thanks to moderation if they disagree with OCDOs views or the moderators. Take a look at the poll that asked weather people agree with the last compromise and who doesn't. It speaks volumes. TheQs constant snarky posts go to show that he is unfit to lead any organization. To say that gun rights orgs are beyond reproach is laughable. It's about open carry and is well on topic. It's not off base to question weather so called gun rights orgs are going to continue supporting anti-open carry legislation. I expect to see it continuing and the fact they are still quiet about it means it's there any they want to minimize the exposure.
    Last edited by mikestilly; 01-18-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    I think it's helpful, not to mention on-topic, to just stick to discussion of the revival of HB 5232. Part of that discussion is where the Michigan gun orgs are at with regard to potentially compromising currently legal gun rights for this particular proposed legislation.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  12. #12
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikestilly View Post
    This forum is dead in my opinion. It only fosters arguments and fighting. Real discussions and debates on subjects don't happen here thanks to moderation if they disagree with OCDOs views or the moderators.
    Can you suggest another forum to openly discuss open carry in Michigan?
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  13. #13
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Revive HB 5232 of 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by mikestilly View Post
    joke but then again looking at my sb59 post which was one of many that we're closed to stop debate on it. I'm in the belief this is how Michigan is now moderated? It was closed bringing virtually the same thing Dan is saying today. I still think its quite disgusting that Michigan Open Carry supported a bill that criminalized open carry for the first time ever in Michigan in PFZs. Talk about a bill that contained a specific clause that couldn't be more contrary from what MOCs goals are. This forum is dead in my opinion. It only fosters arguments and fighting. Real discussions and debates on subjects don't happen here thanks to moderation if they disagree with OCDOs views or the moderators. Take a look at the poll that asked weather people agree with the last compromise and who doesn't. It speaks volumes. TheQs constant snarky posts go to show that he is unfit to lead any organization. To say that gun rights orgs are beyond reproach is laughable. It's about open carry and is well on topic. It's not off base to question weather so called gun rights orgs are going to continue supporting anti-open carry legislation. I expect to see it continuing and the fact they are still quiet about it means it's there any they want to minimize the exposure.
    We'll agree OCDO Michigan is a cesspool. I don't blame the Forum management or moderation.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Revive HB 5232 of 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Can you suggest another forum to openly discuss open carry in Michigan?
    There's MGO, MOC, and I think UFO has a Forum...right, mike?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  15. #15
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    The question is the same, but it is relevant to each new proposed legislation since Michigan gun organizations established that they may compromise OC to get proposals passed.

    So, while my question is the same, it certainly is a very relevant question to get an answer on for each proposal, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I know. I am wondering what portion of my posts caused you to include me in your admonishment. I don't see anything I've written which need elicit a warning to me from you.

    Please leave me out of your moderating unless I, myself, post something objectively needing moderation. That's what I'm asking for: please quote material from me that you believe, from a moderator viewpoint, is not allowable.

    I respect this site and I'm here to learn if something I post is not allowable. Please quote my content that you perceive is not allowable.
    Duplicate posts, and your back & forth with Q on the same. Multiple complaints received on same. It was headed for a major ******* contest, hence my comment.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikestilly View Post
    joke This forum is dead in my opinion. It only fosters arguments and fighting.
    And yet, you're still here. What keeps bringing you back, when you have your own, vibrant growing following on your website? Just trolling for membership?

    You other threads & posts were deleted because you obviously had not read the proposed legislation, and weren't adding anything to the discussion. I was only trying to save you from embarrassing yourself further. You're welcome.

    BTW, you violated a rule in your fabricated quotation attributed to me. Keep pushing the envelope, and see if you can deal with the sticky part...
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  17. #17
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Duplicate posts . . .
    Each piece of proposed legislation may have a different response on what the Michigan gun orgs are willing to compromise on, with regard to criminalizing parts or all of currently legal OC. Asking the question and tracking the possibly unique answer in each bill's thread seems logical. The start-off question is the same, but the answer for each bill quite possibly is different. Other than asking the question and tracking the possibly unique answers in each bill's thread, what is your suggestion on tracking this relevant question's answers for each bill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    . . . and your back & forth with Q on the same.
    Q posts to me and I respond. My responses to him have been civil and addressing the particular content he posts to me. As far as I know, "back & forth" with someone isn't a problem, it's the content of each individual's postings that may be a problem. I don't believe my content in response to him warrants moderator sanction, is it the content he initiates to me that may warrant your sanction? Perhaps he initiates off-topic posts to me and he should stop doing that, maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Multiple complaints received on same.
    Are the complaints justified? The posts I initiate are relevant, on-topic or not too far off-topic, and civil. The world, and the internet, is full of complainers, you and I both know that. There are complaints, and then there are valid complaints. If you have a valid complaint against a post of mine, I guarantee you I will respectfully take your moderating guidance and comply with it, if you give to me my material that is offensive and explain how it is offensive, if it is not clear to me. I respect this site and objective moderation guidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    It was headed for a major ******* contest, hence my comment.
    My posts are are relevant, on-topic or not too far off-topic, and civil. Are we non-hecklers responsible for where the hecklers take the discussion, or are the hecklers responsible for that, and they should be the ones whose posts or posting privileges moderated?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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