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Thread: Appleton pulls HB 1012 due to "threats from gun owners"

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Appleton pulls HB 1012 due to "threats from gun owners"

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/L...187541431.html

    What is this nonsense? Given that the story even states that there wasn't a "definite threat", is this just a passing shot at gun owners for refusing to accept her nonsense and sending her letters? Sure seems that way.....

    OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - A Washington state lawmaker last week withdrew a bill to limit self-defense rights after saying she receiving threats by telephone and email that have made her fear for her life.

    Rep. Sherry Appleton, D-Poulsbo, said House Bill 1012, filed last month, was spurred by the Trayvon Martin shooting last February, in which a neighborhood watch volunteer in Florida shot dead the unarmed Martin, 17, after confronting him on the street.

    The shooter, George Zimmerman, was not immediately arrested after the shooting, with local law enforcement citing Florida's "stand your ground" law as justification for his actions. Zimmerman was subsequently arrested and charged with second-degree murder last April. His case is pending.

    Appleton's bill would have required a person to retreat from a dangerous confrontation that person "knows or should know" that doing so would afford "complete safety."

    "I was so appalled by the Trayvon Martin shooting," Appleton said. "I did the bill because we have no verbiage on 'duty to retreat' in Washington."

    Washington is one of at least 29 states with no explicit duty to retreat. Some other states employ a "castle doctrine," exempting a person in his home from the duty to retreat.

    Appleton said her bill was written in September and she lamented that it was caught up in the reignited national debate over guns in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting massacre in Newtown, Conn., in which 26 people, including 20 children, were killed.

    "It's unfortunate, because Newtown happened, and that riled up so many people," Appleton said. "I think it would have gone unnoticed if it hadn't been for Newtown."

    The threats against Appleton, which were among the more than a hundred emails and telephone calls she received about the bill after reports of it circulated on gun advocacy websites, were non-specific but "very scary," said her assistant, Donna Bezon.

    Bezon declined to provide copies of emails or transcripts of voice messages to The Associated Press, saying she wanted to spare Appleton, who has not seen the worst of them, the details contained therein. But she said the most concerning included information about where Appleton lived.

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    Should be easy enough to request a FOIA request for the voice mails and emails, shouldn't it? Start date would be when it was first talked about until the date she retracted the bill.

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    The promise of not being reelected IS NOT A THREAT OF VIOLENCE OR HATRED!
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Appleton pulls HB 1012 due to "threats from gun owners"

    Quote Originally Posted by dadada View Post
    Should be easy enough to request a FOIA request for the voice mails and emails, shouldn't it? Start date would be when it was first talked about until the date she retracted the bill.
    Yes. This subject needs a open records act request. She must be held accountable for her statements.
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    Isn't it great how when the anti's express their opinions its "concerns". When gun owners do its "threats". How is it that the anti's can't seem to grasp that our rights are defended with the blood of our military personel, they call them heros when they come home, then promptly try to deny them the very rights they fought for. The very oath they swear to when they take office means absolutely nothing to them.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I can't believe that anyway near the majority of people who opposed that bill threatened either appleton or Donna Bezon, I know I sure didn't, nor did MSG Lagie, nor did anyone else who emailed her from this forum. I think maybe there's two or three wackos and it's being overdone. also notice, Appleton isn't directly making the accusation, it's Donna Bezon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Yes. This subject needs a open records act request. She must be held accountable for her statements.
    If someone's willing to guide me, I'll take this one on. I fly out of state Sun-Thur for work, but have complete access to email/text/internet during that time, and can do things in person on Fridays.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    There's also an article here in The Kitsap Sun about how Appleton was recieving "threats"

    @Gogo

    Would the records be open? I'm not terribly familiar with every provision of the law, but it seems that one of the emails was given to the WSP, if those communications are part of an ongoing investigation by the State Patrol then can they be compelled to disclose it?

    EDIT

    And look at this this story of us threatening people is in the national media, that link I just provided was The Washington Post This story is from Texas citing the AP. So Appleton's claim has hit the press wire, and even if we prove she's not being honest, millions of people across the country will never hear the correction, only the initial story of death threats, let me put on my tin foil and proclaim that I think this is a coordinated effort to hinder gun rights across the country...
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 01-18-2013 at 11:30 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Well OF COURSE she was being threatened! Someone disagreed with her, DUH! ANY time someone disagrees with a liberal they're automatically "threatening" and "agitated." Or at the very least being hateful and bigoted. Sheesh.

    However, the same logic does NOT apply when liberals or other leftists are rioting in the street, causing damage to private property, or beating innocent people. Those people are merely poor underprivileged misunderstood oppressed victims expressing themselves.
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    Re: Appleton pulls HB 1012 due to "threats from gun owners"

    Quote Originally Posted by dadada View Post
    If someone's willing to guide me, I'll take this one on. I fly out of state Sun-Thur for work, but have complete access to email/text/internet during that time, and can do things in person on Fridays.
    I'll pm you, I have a "little" experience with open records requests.

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Isn't threatening a public official's life a crime? Doesn't this now need to be investigated by the WSP?

    She needs to either file criminal complaints or withdraw these statements.

    I talked to Donna for over 15 minutes and wrote several emails to Appleton, I can tell you, by then she had already been contacted by a lot. After I got some contacts in the KCSO, including senior officers, to contact her it probably made her &$^% bricks that her lie about LEOs requesting the bill would fall through so my guess is this was her back-up plan.
    Last edited by Alpine; 01-19-2013 at 12:02 AM.

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    Even if true ... I have seen people ask that since we have the right to bear arms then threatening to bear them can be a crime?

    If a person threatens to bear arms, is this a constitutionally protected activity? Arguments could be made I guess ... in the context here.

    I think it would depend on the specific circumstances involved ... and, like others stated, we don't know these facts.

    what if they were to consider a law to kill the first born of every family in the interest of population control (Kissinger would love that bill) ... then would it be OK? And if not technically legally OK, would jury nullification be an avenue for a defense attny to focus on?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Isn't threatening a public official's life a crime? Doesn't this now need to be investigated by the WSP?

    She needs to either file criminal complaints or withdraw these statements.

    I talked to Donna for over 15 minutes and wrote several emails to Appleton, I can tell you, by then she had already been contacted by a lot. After I got some contacts in the KCSO, including senior officers, to contact her it probably made her sh!t bricks that her lie about LEOs requesting the bill would fall through so my guess is this was her back-up plan.
    This^^^^^^^^^

    IF there was, and I am doubting there ever was any, threats made charges against those who made them would have been all over the news to smear us gun owners.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Even if true ... I have seen people ask that since we have the right to bear arms then threatening to bear them can be a crime?

    If a person threatens to bear arms, is this a constitutionally protected activity? Arguments could be made I guess ... in the context here.

    I think it would depend on the specific circumstances involved ... and, like others stated, we don't know these facts.

    what if they were to consider a law to kill the first born of every family in the interest of population control (Kissinger would love that bill) ... then would it be OK? And if not technically legally OK, would jury nullification be an avenue for a defense attny to focus on?
    Dr Edward Vieira Jr, made a great point the other day on RBN when he was talking about the militia(s) in the US of A.

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union,
    suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    What are the laws of the union? Well punishing criminals is one of the laws. Who is the militia? Every able bodied free person. So executing a law of the union could be as simple as slaying a criminal in the act or as complex as capturing one that was in the act.

    A "duty to retreat" would be a neutering of the powers of the militia.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Dr Edward Vieira Jr, made a great point the other day on RBN when he was talking about the militia(s) in the US of A.

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union,
    suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    What are the laws of the union? Well punishing criminals is one of the laws. Who is the militia? Every able bodied free person. So executing a law of the union could be as simple as slaying a criminal in the act or as complex as capturing one that was in the act.

    A "duty to retreat" would be a neutering of the powers of the militia.

    Article IV...

    Section 4

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.



    seems like the feds are the ones responsible for repelling invaders ... not the local PDs ... so why do local PDs need M16s?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-19-2013 at 01:55 AM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Article IV...

    Section 4

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.



    seems like the feds are the ones responsible for repelling invaders ... not the local PDs ... so why do local PDs need M16s?
    I thought that the new meaning of "domestic violence" was when a wife accuses her husband of hitting her.

    As for protecting them from invasion it would seem that more troops are needed along our southern border.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Who is the militia? Every able bodied free person.
    more precise?... the militia is a group of able bodied free persons who have joined the militia ...

    Every able bodied free person is available to join a militia when it is needed.

    Its a citizen group ... formed during times of need .. like the Gryffindor sword in Harry Potter

    But the concept of saying it is able bodied people is simpler and more concise ... just know what it really is in case someone wishes a better explanation.

    But the militia portion of the 2nd amendment text does not mean that all of our individual rights to keep and bear are predicated on the actual formation of a militia...

    And luckily its so as our state militias were re-named National Guard after the civil war and now serves 2 masters: both the state and the feds

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The 2A is an implied threat to politicians. Maybe that's why she is so ardently trying to infringe upon it.

    I believe if their truly was a viable threat, they would have plastered it already all over the news, what better way to make gun owners look like loons. Remember that Jack-hole that left a threatening message on Murray's answering machine?
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    I believe she is fabricating a story to make appleton look better. "Poor Baby, cannot read her emails because of bad words." If you cannot handle READING how can you handle actually doing your job. I think it is time for another letter,email, phone calls and visits to her office. She is accusing all of us with this and I doubt if any FOI request will produce the kind of "threats" she received.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I believe she is fabricating a story to make appleton look better. "Poor Baby, cannot read her emails because of bad words." If you cannot handle READING how can you handle actually doing your job. I think it is time for another letter,email, phone calls and visits to her office. She is accusing all of us with this and I doubt if any FOI request will produce the kind of "threats" she received.
    John do you still have the email in which Donna claimed the bill was pulled because Sherry believed is wasn't viable?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    The only way they could refuse a lawful info. request for the letters is if the letters are part of a WSP or some PD investigation into the threats right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    more precise?... the militia is a group of able bodied free persons who have joined the militia ...
    The original poster was correct, it is EVERY adult male. You don't have to "join" the militia, just being male and of age is enough. Further, in US v Miller (307 US 174) the Supreme Court wrote "The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2021607/posts

    Notice that they said two important things, one, that the militia composed all males physically capable of acting and two, that they would appear bearing arms supplied by themselves of the kind in common use.



    Here is the militia law:

    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
    (b) The classes of the militia areó
    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    The only way they could refuse a lawful info. request for the letters is if the letters are part of a WSP or some PD investigation into the threats right?
    Correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneeyeross View Post
    The original poster was correct, it is EVERY adult male. You don't have to "join" the militia, just being male and of age is enough... under 45 years of age

    Yeah, I feel SOOOO discriminated against! What's up with this blatant ageism in the US Code?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    Yeah, I feel SOOOO discriminated against! What's up with this blatant ageism in the US Code?
    well, if'n you're retired military, that doesn't apply...

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