Any shame in running away???

self preservation said:

I got into a debate with a co-worker the other day about engaging an active shooter. My comment was that if my family and I were on one side of Wal-Mart and a shooter came in on the other side of the store, my priority would be getting my family out of the store, to the car and getting the hell out of the area as fast as we could. He felt that wasn't a responsible thing to do (leaving the store when I could have fought back for the others) and said it was my obligation to at least attempt to stop the shooter. I explained to him that if the threat was in my face I without a doubt would shoot back.

Or if I were by myself I may attempt to advance to the other side of the store to attempt to stop the shooter. But my priority about protecting life is "we"(my family) "me"(of course meaning myself) then "them"(others), and in that exact order. What are your thoughts?

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self preservation, my wife and I had this discussion on Saturday while in the mall watching all the trouble making teens. We watched 3 groups of about 10-15 being escorted out of the building by security with most of them making sure to draw attention from other patrons. She even took notice of what looked like a couple of gang members in the mall.

There is absolutely no shame in running away from an active shooter. My defensive option is there to protect my family and me. If I have the ability to guide others to a nearby exit then by all means I'm doing just that. I have ZERO obligation to stop a shooter, however if I find myself face-to-face that perceived obligation now becomes relevant as survival (self preservation as it were). We do what we must and each situation is different.

When one makes the effort to go across a store to address gunfire then others in the store that might be carrying, off duty LEOs, or uniformed LEOs may not know if you are actually party to the crime. That is what we want to avoid at all costs. I look at it this way. If I help get several out of the store then that's several fewer targets the shooter will have. If someone wants to call that irresponsible then my mind will continue to be at ease because I managed to keep those people alive and out of harm's way....and I'm alive to tell the tale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ

Always my first choice. It sucks to have to be forced to go with my only other choice.

I think it's one of those questions you don't know the answer to until you are put in that situation. I wouldn't say there is any shame in "running away" from a madman with a rifle, call it a tactical retreat. I figured long ago that if I were at the time and place to do some good and prevent other people from being killed, even if I was in harm's way myself, I'd do what it took to save lives. But if I could get people out of harm's way and save lives that way, while covering the public's retreat, there is no shame in doing so either. A person with body armor and a rifle is going to be more than a match for the average daily carrier with a pistol. In the end, it's up to every person to decide what they will do. And obviously, someone with a family to worry about should take care of them first and foremost.

Your first responsibility is the safety of your loved ones. That is your true responsibility, and that is why you have chosen to carry a weapon to defend them with. So the first thing is to make sure they get out of harms way, even if it means you need to create a diversion so they have that opportuniity.

BUT, you also have a responsibility to your fellow human. It is not as high a level of responsibility as you have to your loved ones, but it does exist, and when you are sure that your loved ones are safely out of immeadiate danger, you should analyze the situation to see if there is a way to neutralize the danger to everyone, without putting yourself in undue danger. You do no-one any good bleeding out on the floor.

No theatrics, just common sense...no frontal charge into a full auto with a darringer. Another thing, if the person is activelty shooting, he is not going to listen to "drop it or I'll shoot" unless you are in a hidden and very defensible position. If you have a fairly high percentage shot, take it, always being mindful what is behind the shooter.

The Clackamus Mall shooter committed suicide as soon as he was challanged, even if the person that challenged him was hidden and had not shot because of the people that were behind the shooter. If you can make a difference, you need to do so, or you will be kicking yourself for the rest of your life.

You can never guess what an active shooter is thinking, but you can be sure he does not want to be challenged, or shot by someone else. That is not in his plan. He is counting on fear and panic to allow him to do maximum damage to his intended targets, with the minimum risk to himself. (at least until he has done what he came to do)