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Thread: Tonight, for one night only, I give you the open carryof, An empty holster

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Formerly of Ireland, now Martinsburg, WV, West Virginia, USA

    Tonight, for one night only, I give you the open carryof, An empty holster

    O.K so it's not exactly open carry, However it is parent teacher conference night here at Martinsburg N.M.S, as the nominated delegate ( my wife is making me go this time ) I am forced to disarm or risk spending the evening face down on the floor before being provided with a free ride in a Police car.

    What we tolerate for the sake of our children....... isn't that just a little prophetic considering out current dilemma ?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Nitro, WV
    Well, at least you didn't get arrested did you. They arrested a guy in Boone county yesterday for "brandishing" an empty holster, and allegedly making threats.

    No joke, a quote from the story...

    "On at least two prior occasions this month, deputies said, Pickens brandished the empty holster to the staff and made threats of not leaving his gun in his vehicle the next time he came in to the school."

    So the deputy heard this himself??? Or did someone in the staff "witness" this? If the staff witnessed, would it be alleged???

    Well they said, he said, his uncle's brother's cousin said, he said, "he was going to bring his gun." Unfortunately, in most courts that is called heresay. I don't defend him if he said that to them, but where is the actual threat, and where can the actual evidence (like a tape recording of him) come from, unless he just flat out admits (which he probably will do.)

    Here is another quote...

    "Media outlets report that authorities found a loaded handgun in his car parked near the school. His connection to the school is unclear."

    Near the school!!! Hope he had a CC permit, because I feel a GFSZA charge coming on, and everyone knows that those just don't happen. Remember under the GFSZA 1000 ft is near a school, and it is hard to find ANYTHING that isn't within 1000 ft of some kind of school.
    Last edited by jdmm72; 01-24-2013 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity and added more detail

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Nitro, WV
    Here was my facebook post, I posted a similar one on WSAZ's article comment page...

    I actually said I wasn't going to post this, but...

    I know what the initial gut reaction is, and honestly I had it also, but after that faded, I analyzed the story and have some questions.

    First of all, it says he was carrying (actually used the LEGAL term brandishing, but later took it down, because it is a criminal offense that goes directly with unholstering a gun as a threat) an open holster, not a gun, a holster, okay, not in the best taste, but still not a violation of the law.

    Then it states that he made threats to someone, somewhere, sometime, to bring a gun to school. WCHS actually states that a deputy stated that a staff member stated that he made the threat to them. In court, I believe that is usually called heresay, you can't testify as a witness that someone else states that they heard someone say something. Convoluted I know, but that's my point. Another thing, I don't see the threat. Where is the threat? Yes, under state and federal law, you cannot bring a LOADED gun to school, but under state (and federal) law, you can bring an unloaded gun in your vehicle on school property. The state law follows...


    (b) (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any firearm or any other deadly weapon on any school bus as defined in section one, article one, chapter seventeen-a of this code, or in or on any public or private primary or secondary education building, structure, facility or grounds thereof, including any vocational education building, structure, facility or grounds thereof where secondary vocational education programs are conducted or at any school-sponsored function.

    (2) This subsection shall not apply to:

    (C) A person who, as otherwise permitted by the provisions of this article, possesses an unloaded firearm or deadly weapon in a motor vehicle, or leaves an unloaded firearm or deadly weapon in a locked motor vehicle;

    Technically, that would be bringing a gun to the school, but in a legal way.

    It also states that he was on the property multiple times, and actually states that he was IN the building, why? Did he have a child/grandchild/dependant who was a student? We don't know, it's another unanswered question. I also have other problems on multiple levels. If he did not have a child in school there, why was he allowed in? The school doors are locked, why did the STAFF let him in? Also, if he was not supposed to be there and was there multiple times before, why didn't someone ask him to leave, and if he came back, why wasn't he charged with trespass? WCHS also reported he had a folding knife and that it was prohibited on school grounds. Did the knife meet the legal definition of a "knife?"

    61-7-2. Definitions.

    (3) "Knife" means an instrument, intended to be used or readily adaptable to be used as a weapon, consisting of a sharp- edged or sharp-pointed blade, usually made of steel, attached to a handle which is capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing or tearing wounds. The term "knife" shall include, but not be limited to, any dagger, dirk, poniard or stiletto, with a blade over three and one- half inches in length, any switchblade knife or gravity knife and any other instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing or tearing wounds. A pocket knife with a blade three and one-half inches or less in length, a hunting or fishing knife carried for hunting, fishing, sports or other recreational uses or a knife designed for use as a tool or household implement shall not be included within the term "knife" as defined herein unless such knife is knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death.

    As you can see, normal pocket knives with a blade 3.5" or less are excluded in the definition of a knife, so just how big was his folding knife? Under what authority was it prohibited? WV State law indicates that a pocket knife primarily used as a tool is not considered a weapon, hence no prohibition in places were weapons are not allowed.

    Additionally, both report that he had a loaded gun in his car NEAR the school. But the definition of near is another topic. And WV is a open carry state, you are legally allowed to have a loaded gun locked in your car (there some debate with hunting regulations though.) Was the car parked near the school? Did he live near the school?

    Ultimately, this is sensationalism at its best. I don't know the guy, don't claim I know his intentions (he may very well be a bad guy, or not, but cannot make a determination due to facts?), nor am I defending him. What I am lamblasting, is shotty reporting. This story was meant to stir the emotions, to press a known bias for gun control, and these two "NEWS" agencies should be ashamed of themselves.
    Within minutes, they updated the article clearing a lot of it up and the truth was somewhat more kind to the accused, so my reply was

    WSAZ has updated their story, and come clean somewhat. The school has came out and said that THEY (the school) invited him on the grounds on the occasions INCLUDING this one to discuss his carrying the holster and the "threats" to carry a gun as a parent/teacher conference, that he had a child in the school.

    I find this an inappropriate forum for them to do so. The school principal has no authority over a private, non-school age adult, and the principal and possibly the teacher in question should be terminated immediately.

    The school in question also stated that he wasn't viewed as a threat, they used the school to "sting" him, and basically found pocket knife on him. They state that they did not contact parents, because they didn't view him as a threat. Still haven't answered the question about the gun found in his car. My question is was the loaded gun on school property or not, should be easy enough to answer, so I have to assume no, or else they would have publicized the fact (they specifically said NEAR, not ON). According to the news report, he was charged with making a terroristic threat, not assault or assault with a deadly which in my opinion, is a pile on charge. Again, the guy apparently DID NOT carry a "deadly weapon" on school property, as a holster does not constitute a deadly weapon and according to state law, neither does a pocket knife with a blade less than 3.5".

    The fact that the bail was set at $100,000 is also beyond belief. Last year, a woman in Huntington KILLED (committed MURDER on) her toddler, and got $30,000 bail, but this guy brings a holster and pocket knife and gets $100,000, really?

    So, he was charged with making a terroristic threat. Let's see if that fits...

    61-6-24. Threats of terrorist acts, conveying false information concerning terrorist acts and committing terrorist hoaxes prohibited; penalties.

    (3) "Terrorist act" means an act that is:

    (A) Likely to result in serious bodily injury or damage to property or the environment; and

    (B) Intended to:

    (i) Intimidate or coerce the civilian population;

    (ii) Influence the policy of a branch or level of government by intimidation or coercion;

    (iii) Affect the conduct of a branch or level of government by intimidation or coercion; or

    (iv) Retaliate against a branch or level of government for a policy or conduct of the government.

    Notice the AND. "Likely to result in serious bodily injury or damage...AND"

    Does the threat of carrying a gun, or the act of carrying a gun meet this intent? I believe not. It does not say he threatened to use it. Now had it been a threat to shoot someone with that gun, hit someone with a sledgehammer, stab someone with a pencil, that might well meet that criteria, but as of right now, the accusations against him don't meet that standard. As such, I believe he has a fair chance to sucessfully sue for having his civil rights violated for false arrest, and I hope he has a good defense attorney.

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