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Thread: The latest from Seattle City Council member Tim Burgess

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    The latest from Seattle City Council member Tim Burgess

    FYI - I just got this in my inbox:

    Poll: Washington Ready for Olympia to Act on Gun Safety

    Washington CeaseFire unveiled a poll of statewide voter attitudes toward gun safety laws this afternoon. The results are remarkable and show that Washington voters across the political spectrum want Olympia to pass common sense gun safety laws today.

    Conducted the first week of January by Alison Peters Consulting, a firm that serves both Republican and Democratic clients, the poll of 600 registered voters revealed wide and strong support for a variety of gun safety measures, including:
    a state law to require that everyone who buys a gun at a gun show undergo a background check (87% in support);
    a state law to increase mandatory penalties for youth firearm possession, starting with house detention at the first offense (68% in support);
    a state law to ban semi-automatic assault weapons (66% in support);
    a state law to limit ammunition clips on guns to 10 bullets (66% in support);
    and a state law requiring the signature of local police on every concealed weapons permit application (66% in support).
    When broken down by region, Seattle residents were generally more supportive of these measures. Perhaps more surprising, though, is that each of these changes received majority support from those polled in Eastern Washington (the more conservative 4th and 5th Congressional Districts).

    The fact is we are far more unified on this issue than the gun lobby would have us believe. This information should help legislators in Olympia overcome fears of any potential political backlash.

    In December, the City Council amended the City’s lobbying agenda for this year’s state legislative session to include the following specific policy goals: a ban on all assault weapons; a ban on large capacity ammunition magazines; universal background checks, including at gun shows; trigger locks and safe storage requirements; and micro-stamping technology in all firearms sold, purchased or delivered in the state to improve the capability of police to trace fired bullets.

    Washington law restrict cities from enacting their own gun safety regulations, so the City Council will continue to respectfully but persistently encourage our colleagues in the State Legislature to take action. My hope is that these survey numbers will spur other local officials across the state to do the same.

    Councilmember Tim Burgess
    I sure would like to vet those numbers and the precise language of the questions posed to the 600.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    http://www.alisonpetersconsulting.com/aboutus.php

    As a result, her work has helped progressive politics move forward in Washington State on several key issues.
    Well that didn't take long to shoot any credibility this "poll" has straight out of the water.......and the note about the firm helping Republican and Democrats alike? All you have to do is take a look at "Our Work" to see that's absolute bunk as well:

    • ACLU Marijuana Education Project
    • Coalition for Healthy Economic Choices for Kitsap (CHECK)
    • Equal Rights Washington
    • Futurewise
    • Healthy Youth Alliance
    • Human Rights Campaign
    • King County Alliance for Human Services
    • King County Housing Development Consortium
    • Mothers against Violence in America (MAVIA)
    • NARAL Pro-Choice Washington
    • Optometric Physicians of Washington
    • Patient Choice & Access for Washington
    • Planned Parenthood Votes Washington
    • Progressive Majority
    • The Nature Conservancy of Washington
    • Tunnel + Transit Coalition
    • Washington Low Income Housing Alliance
    • Washington State Democrats
    • Washington State Association for Justice
    • Wireless Action Coalition
    • Woodland Community Swimming Pool Committee
    Last edited by compmanio365; 01-22-2013 at 07:23 PM. Reason: More info found

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    Activist Member SigGuy23's Avatar
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    If you notice they only polled 600 people in a state of hundreds of thousands of people. There was over 2,000 people at the 2A rally in Olympia last Saturday. That right there proves what they have to say is complete ********.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: The latest from Seattle City Council member Tim Burgess

    Why doesn't someone draft legislation and try to get it on the next ballet? Think Tim Eyman but for firearms??

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    I made a comment on his page and it has now been removed.

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    Try it again Bill....
    What did you say that was offensive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra09 View Post
    Try it again Bill....
    What did you say that was offensive?
    Probably the truth!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigGuy23 View Post
    If you notice they only polled 600 people in a state of hundreds of thousands of people. There was over 2,000 people at the 2A rally in Olympia last Saturday. That right there proves what they have to say is complete ********.
    More likely they polled many more, and then just picked and chose the responses that fit their agenda...

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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Statistically speaking, that may be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by SigGuy23 View Post
    If you notice they only polled 600 people in a state of hundreds of thousands of people. There was over 2,000 people at the 2A rally in Olympia last Saturday. That right there proves what they have to say is complete ********.
    It has been over 20 years since I have taken part in any statistics class, but was able to do some math on this.

    With a population of 6,897,012 in Washington state and a sample size of 600, the error rate (with a 95% probability) is +/-4%.
    What this means is that 95% of the population of the population would agree with these numbers if their vote was counted today. There is a 4% margin of error, so the numbers could be either 4% less or possibly even 4% more.

    Now, Their sample audience and could also affect the outcome of their findings (ie, if they only contacted liberal, anti-gun respondents), that could greatly influence their findings one way or the other.

    Hope this helps.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    It has been over 20 years since I have taken part in any statistics class, but was able to do some math on this.

    With a population of 6,897,012 in Washington state and a sample size of 600, the error rate (with a 95% probability) is +/-4%.
    What this means is that 95% of the population of the population would agree with these numbers if their vote was counted today. There is a 4% margin of error, so the numbers could be either 4% less or possibly even 4% more.

    Now, Their sample audience and could also affect the outcome of their findings (ie, if they only contacted liberal, anti-gun respondents), that could greatly influence their findings one way or the other.

    Hope this helps.
    Those numbers only work with an unbiased sample, which I believe is a HUGE assumption in this case. Statistics are a funny area and easily manipulable.
    Too lazy to do a blog! Follow me on Twitter instead! @6ShotScott

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Telephone Polls, in my mind, are worthless unless you are trying to support YOUR agenda. Accuracy sucks. Ever since Caller ID how many people don't even answer when they see an unknown number or name?

    Then there are the questions. Every question is worded in order to elicit a certain response. Ask a question worded in order to get an anti-gun response and guess what you'll get.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    They are just fudging the numbers so it looks like they are approved to do whatever they want.

    No shocker since Seattle is a conformist city ran by big fat wharf rats.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeesBonafide View Post
    It has been over 20 years since I have taken part in any statistics class, but was able to do some math on this.

    With a population of 6,897,012 in Washington state and a sample size of 600, the error rate (with a 95% probability) is +/-4%.
    What this means is that 95% of the population of the population would agree with these numbers if their vote was counted today. There is a 4% margin of error, so the numbers could be either 4% less or possibly even 4% more.

    Now, Their sample audience and could also affect the outcome of their findings (ie, if they only contacted liberal, anti-gun respondents), that could greatly influence their findings one way or the other.

    Hope this helps.
    It's my understanding that 67.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot...
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Telephone Polls, in my mind, are worthless unless you are trying to support YOUR agenda. Accuracy sucks. Ever since Caller ID how many people don't even answer when they see an unknown number or name?

    Then there are the questions. Every question is worded in order to elicit a certain response. Ask a question worded in order to get an anti-gun response and guess what you'll get.
    Very much like "So, when did you stop beating your wife?"
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Anybody think a poll of the U district on this question might come up with a different answer that if you were to poll rural Okanogan Co?

    But the BIGGEST way to slant the poll is the way the question is posed. I'll write the questions, then let see what the response is.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Telephone Polls, in my mind, are worthless unless you are trying to support YOUR agenda. Accuracy sucks. Ever since Caller ID how many people don't even answer when they see an unknown number or name?

    Then there are the questions. Every question is worded in order to elicit a certain response. Ask a question worded in order to get an anti-gun response and guess what you'll get.
    I made the mistake of answering a poll once since I've become aware of how misleading they are.

    They wanted an answer down one path or the other, I told them that both were wrong and I could not agree to either answer.
    The guy asked me many questions, it was a poll about who I would vote for, Obama or Romney. I told the guy I would rather vote for a dog's scrotum that either one of those two bastards. He kept asking which one and kept saying neither of them.

    I won't do anymore polls unless I am in a mood to want to cuss and swear. That last one really torqued me off.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 01-23-2013 at 08:02 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post
    It's my understanding that 67.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot...
    It's really 75%
    Quote Originally Posted by rapgood View Post


    Very much like "So, when did you stop beating your wife?"
    I never started beating your wife, why do you ask?
    I like my answer.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Here is the LOADED script they used, as well as the percentages.
    http://www.thestranger.com/images/bl...es_1_22_13.pdf
    www.WaGuns.org

    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

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    Well well well they now have the name and address, voting preference, firearm ownership, political preference, ethnic background, economic status, NRA membership...................................

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    The latest from Seattle City Council member Tim Burgess

    So 44% own firearms and 8% refused to answer so that means 52% own firearms and 48% don't. Of course some may have lied.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    Here is the LOADED script they used, as well as the percentages.
    http://www.thestranger.com/images/bl...es_1_22_13.pdf
    Wow, that is one remarkably biased script. Thanks for posting that.

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