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Thread: In WA is it Illegal to Open Carry into a Church Since Its Private Property?

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    In WA is it Illegal to Open Carry into a Church Since Its Private Property?

    I have been attending a church that can only be described as an apostate church at which I am one of only very few people who oppose Obama, oppose the UN, oppose gun control, and oppose the NWO. I might soon stop attending. I said a politically incorrect prayer a few weeks ago that elicited a very angry response from the wife of one of the volunteer pastors who exploded at me from behind, screaming at the top of her lungs that she was "sick and tired" of my interjecting political comments into my prayers.

    (Here was the prayer: "I'd just like to pray for all of us as we head over the fiscal cliff together. As this happens, its important to understand WHY its happening. The Obamination is intentionally destroying our currency via deficit spending in order to trigger martial law so that America will be destroyed and forced into the Council on Foreign Relations long planned North American Union Collectivist Dictatorship which is modeled after the EU, which is a collectivist dictatorship. If you'd like more info, see me after the service in the parish house."

    After the service, as I was walking into the parish house, the wife of this pastor unloaded on me verbally, and I calmly informed her (and her pastor husband) that I have the God given unalienable right to freedom of speech, and that I don't need their permission before saying any prayer I feel like saying. Shirley left the building, angry enough to spit nails, while her husband Chuck went and sat down. I got a plate of pot luck food and sat opposite him and asked him point blank if he felt that censorship had any place inside of a church. No reply. He then left.

    When I got home I sent an email demanding an immediate apology, telling them I wanted a face to face meeting so we could clear the air. In this email I provided in depth footnoted info to back every word in my prayer, telling them I wanted to discuss it.

    No reply, so that Friday, a few days later I called once again reiterating my desire for a face to face meeting, but the pastor told me his wife "didn't want to talk with me." So I told him I had at least tried and that at the very least I expected a written apology from his wife since he'd agreed that censorship had no place inside of a church. He angrily told me that I would "have my apology in the morning."

    In the morning I received a one sentence "apology" with the word misspelled in the subject line. I responded to it reitering my desire for a face to face meeting to clear the air, citing additional facts to back my position. In this email I also said that "although the state open carry law would allow me to open carry anywhere in the state, including church if I wanted to, that I would not do this, I just wanted them to be aware of the law."

    The next morning, as I headed towards church I saw a County sheriff drive up the hill past me, make a big U turn, and start heading towards me. I half expected lights and sirens as I turned into the church parking lot.

    Next thing I knew both deputy sheriffs had their cars on the front lawn of the church as I climbed the steps towards the sanctuary as one of them confronted me saying he wanted me to come over and talk with him. I told him I was busy, that church was about to begin, whereupon I entered and participated in the service, half expecting them to come in and arrest me. I was not armed.

    I now think I might have been wrong about the legality of open carrying into a church since it is private property. Was I wrong, and if I had open carried into the church does anyone know what the penalty would have been? I am quite stable, I just don't like the anti gun attitude of the Obamatrons in the Church.

    Any insight here would be much appreciated. I had no further trouble from the sheriffs, but am pretty much being shunned by people in the congregation. It is the only church here in Point Roberts. I then sent a detailed white paper to the Church Council expressing my grievances with the rampant apostasy in this church. No response from them, although I was told I would have the chance to meeting with them.I intend to educate them to the best of my ability even though they've been brainwashed to the point where they are hopeless followers of Obama and the UN.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Moved thid thread from Forum Rules where it had no application to the Washington sub-forum - questions are state specific.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Not illegal to carry open, or concealed in a church in WA. As a private organization they can say you can't, and you need to leave. Weapon not even in consideration it sounds like an incompatible organization with your beliefs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jham View Post
    I have been attending a church that can only be described as an apostate church at which I am one of only very few people who oppose Obama, oppose the UN, oppose gun control, and oppose the NWO. I might soon stop attending. I said a politically incorrect prayer a few weeks ago that elicited a very angry response from the wife of one of the volunteer pastors who exploded at me from behind, screaming at the top of her lungs that she was "sick and tired" of my interjecting political comments into my prayers.

    (Here was the prayer: "I'd just like to pray for all of us as we head over the fiscal cliff together. As this happens, its important to understand WHY its happening. The Obamination is intentionally destroying our currency via deficit spending in order to trigger martial law so that America will be destroyed and forced into the Council on Foreign Relations long planned North American Union Collectivist Dictatorship which is modeled after the EU, which is a collectivist dictatorship. If you'd like more info, see me after the service in the parish house."

    After the service, as I was walking into the parish house, the wife of this pastor unloaded on me verbally, and I calmly informed her (and her pastor husband) that I have the God given unalienable right to freedom of speech, and that I don't need their permission before saying any prayer I feel like saying. Shirley left the building, angry enough to spit nails, while her husband Chuck went and sat down. I got a plate of pot luck food and sat opposite him and asked him point blank if he felt that censorship had any place inside of a church. No reply. He then left.

    When I got home I sent an email demanding an immediate apology, telling them I wanted a face to face meeting so we could clear the air. In this email I provided in depth footnoted info to back every word in my prayer, telling them I wanted to discuss it.

    No reply, so that Friday, a few days later I called once again reiterating my desire for a face to face meeting, but the pastor told me his wife "didn't want to talk with me." So I told him I had at least tried and that at the very least I expected a written apology from his wife since he'd agreed that censorship had no place inside of a church. He angrily told me that I would "have my apology in the morning."

    In the morning I received a one sentence "apology" with the word misspelled in the subject line. I responded to it reitering my desire for a face to face meeting to clear the air, citing additional facts to back my position. In this email I also said that "although the state open carry law would allow me to open carry anywhere in the state, including church if I wanted to, that I would not do this, I just wanted them to be aware of the law."

    The next morning, as I headed towards church I saw a County sheriff drive up the hill past me, make a big U turn, and start heading towards me. I half expected lights and sirens as I turned into the church parking lot.

    Next thing I knew both deputy sheriffs had their cars on the front lawn of the church as I climbed the steps towards the sanctuary as one of them confronted me saying he wanted me to come over and talk with him. I told him I was busy, that church was about to begin, whereupon I entered and participated in the service, half expecting them to come in and arrest me. I was not armed.

    I now think I might have been wrong about the legality of open carrying into a church since it is private property. Was I wrong, and if I had open carried into the church does anyone know what the penalty would have been? I am quite stable, I just don't like the anti gun attitude of the Obamatrons in the Church.

    Any insight here would be much appreciated. I had no further trouble from the sheriffs, but am pretty much being shunned by people in the congregation. It is the only church here in Point Roberts. I then sent a detailed white paper to the Church Council expressing my grievances with the rampant apostasy in this church. No response from them, although I was told I would have the chance to meeting with them.I intend to educate them to the best of my ability even though they've been brainwashed to the point where they are hopeless followers of Obama and the UN.
    QFT.

    That's quite a doozy for a first post.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    It is not illegal in WA to carry in a church. However, it is private property and they have private property rights. If asked to leave, you must or risk being trespass from the property and being cited.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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    Was I wrong, and if I had open carried into the church does anyone know what the penalty would have been?


    I think you are wrong all the way around. To just "casually" mention that you could start carrying a gun to church (even though you won't) after a disagreement with these folks? What was the point of that, exactly? I think it was to antagonize them, in a passive-aggressive way. I'm not surprised they called the police.

    I'd just like to pray for all of us as we head over the fiscal cliff together. As this happens, its important to understand WHY its happening. The Obamination is intentionally destroying our currency via deficit spending in order to trigger martial law so that America will be destroyed and forced into the Council on Foreign Relations long planned North American Union Collectivist Dictatorship which is modeled after the EU, which is a collectivist dictatorship. If you'd like more info, see me after the service in the parish house."


    That's not a prayer. That's a mini-manifesto. If I was religious, and if I went to church, I would find your faux-prayer most annoying, and might just say something to you about it.

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Church is private property, they can ask you to leave, but it takes them actually asking you to.

    As far as I know this is the reason that McGinn holds a lot of his rallies and "town halls" in churches so the OC folk can't get in to embarrass him after his failed gun ban.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Church is private property, they can ask you to leave, but it takes them actually asking you to.

    As far as I know this is the reason that McGinn holds a lot of his rallies and "town halls" in churches so the OC folk can't get in to embarrass him after his failed gun ban.
    Of course the only real thing it does is prevent OC...
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    Pretty sure I'd find a new church for more then one reason!
    A church is just a building.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jham View Post
    In this email I also said that "although the state open carry law would allow me to open carry anywhere in the state, including church if I wanted to, that I would not do this, I just wanted them to be aware of the law."
    I feel like a part of the story is missing, this sentence just seems completely out of place with the rest of your post... Unless it's just a reference to how the rest of the congregation is pro-Obama-and-everything-he-does-or-wants... But... that aside.. Yeah, as others have said there is no legal restriction against openly carrying on private property; but if the "owner" (pastor? priest? deacon?) says to leave; you'd better head for the exit as the crow flies so as to not get charged with trespassing.


    By the way, welcome to OCDO.

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO...

    So let's recap... during a "prayer" you go off on a political tirade, which obviously wasn't taken well or the first time you've done this. Then you write a letter to them demanding an apology and you inform them that open carry of a firearm is legal in a church.

    Why e-mail them demanding an apology? Why not just find another church to attend? What was your reasoning behind this "prayer"? If I witnessed the situation as you describe it I would have thought you were just trying to cause problems. Then to even talk about carrying a firearm in church? I would have never even let you back into the building if that was the case.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    ......

    I'll answer the question in the title... no it is not illegal to carry a gun into a church unless asked to leave, then it's trespassing

    as to the body of the thread... well I have no comment
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    ......

    I'll answer the question in the title... no it is not illegal to carry a gun into a church unless asked to leave, then it's trespassing

    as to the body of the thread... well I have no comment
    WHAT?????
    I do believe I just read MNM had NO comments. Can it be posible that Eric has been met with a subjec that he does not know about?
    He stated "not illegal to carry in a church unless asked to leave"
    Big news for you Eric it wouldl NOT be illegal until you refused and then possibly trespass.
    You need to step back and forget the "Book lernin" and get some real world education.

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    1. Calling a political rant a "prayer" doesn't make it a prayer.

    2. I yield to no man in my disagreement with, and indeed contempt for, many of our current President's policies. However, cutesy words like "Obamanation" do nothing to further the discussion with those who don't already agree with you; what's the point in not using more sober terminology to get across the same point?

    3. As for the oc business, I'm with skeith.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jham View Post
    It is the only church here in Point Roberts.

    Never found it necessary to express my faith ONLY in a Church.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I wonder who the deputies are?

    We have our church at Starbucks, Sunday mornings at 10 AM Bakerview and Northwest, our belief system is based on liberty and freedom of speech come on down.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    WHAT?????
    I do believe I just read MNM had NO comments. Can it be posible that Eric has been met with a subjec that he does not know about?
    He stated "not illegal to carry in a church unless asked to leave"
    Big news for you Eric it wouldl NOT be illegal until you refused and then possibly trespass.
    You need to step back and forget the "Book lernin" and get some real world education.
    I think you're hairsplitting. on the wording.
    because a person of average intelligence reading both our comments would get the same idea, when asked to leave, LEAVE

    as far as his comment... This guy seems like a real character.......
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 01-23-2013 at 02:00 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I wonder who the deputies are?

    We have our church at Starbucks, Sunday mornings at 10 AM Bakerview and Northwest, our belief system is based on liberty and freedom of speech come on down.
    I don't know Rob, from the story I think the deputies were called by a church official, sounds like he's been agitating them for some time now.

    Also if he does come to your meet up I hope he knows he Can't OC driving through Canada to get there....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    jham clearly you used a different venue to voice your political viewpoints then what this time was intended for.
    Don't get all butt hurt over someone else's objection and expect others to accept your view points.

    Clearly you have other issues then just with the church, becoming outraged at someone objecting to your views, amazing.
    Then demand an apology immediately and when you did not get it in a timely or desired manor you continued your outrage, anger issues?
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    If this "church" congregated on the "internet" you might be labeled a "troll".

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    if this "church" congregated on the "internet" you might be labeled a "troll".
    qft
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 01-23-2013 at 03:01 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Jham: I OC at church, there are maybe 5 others that carry concealed at that same church. (in Mt Vernon) we occationally discuss what we carry, like to carry, etc, after service

    No, it is not "illegal" and you do not have to ask "permission" either. However, if they specificly ask you to leave...you would need to.

    But it sounds to me like you need to get off the Point on Sunday Morning. I'm sure you will find one more to you liking, even in BC (where you cannot carry) or drive down to Blain or B'ham.

    PS, don't cry about the border crossing...I've been crossing that border for over 65 years..it is something you just have to put up with.
    Last edited by hermannr; 01-23-2013 at 05:13 PM.

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    Off topic, I'm curious: how do you get guns and ammo to and from Point Roberts, other than private boat?

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Off topic, I'm curious: how do you get guns and ammo to and from Point Roberts, other than private boat?
    Private air plane... You can actually take them over the border and back if you have a PAL and proper papers...and the pistol has a barrel length of 108 mm or more.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    WHAT?????
    I do believe I just read ENM had NO comments. Can it be possible that Eric has been met with a subject that he does not know about?
    He stated "not illegal to carry in a church unless asked to leave"
    Big news for you Eric it would NOT be illegal until you refused and then possibly trespass.
    You need to step back and forget the "Book learnin" and get some real world education.
    Trigger, this is hairsplitting on one forum rule. Personal attacks....

    Not disagreeing with you, just a friendly reminder....
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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