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Thread: USA Carry Hating on Open Carry

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    USA Carry Hating on Open Carry

    "Keep it Secret, the element of surprise, don't scare bystanders" - I think we have heard these arguments before. I very hastily let the author know how I felt and I think we should do the same. http://www.usacarry.com/keep-it-secret-keep-it-safe/

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    People who ascribe to the "element of surprise" theory, in my opinion, have watched way too many movies.

    What are you going to do? Whip your gun out from under your clothing during an attack and yell, "Surprise motherf***er!!"

    One could make the argument that those that wish to have the element of surprise are also those that have fantasies about being a hero or having a chance to use their firearm in conflict resolution. After all, it's not about prevention any more - it's about surprise.

    I carry concealed when it is prudent to do so. I carry open when I can. My motivation with both methods of carry is singular: to be afforded an opportunity to neutralize a threat should I ever find myself in that position. I do not seek attention, nor do I wish to "surprise" someone.

    As for the "cause alarm" argument: that is also a weak stance, built around conjecture. A properly holstered, openly carried firearm is no cause for alarm. And while it may offend some people to their core to see or be in the presence of a firearm, it is not a panic-inducing activity - unless you're one of those rare people that would fit the clinical definition of hoplophobe. But last I checked, we don't force police, security, and military to cover up to placate those few. While it may be shocking or surprising to see a non-uniformed person carrying a holstered firearm, it's hardly "alarming".

    These petty arguments that divide our "community" drive me insane. Carry what you want, however you want. I'll do the same.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    D'ya ever wonder... why there doesn't seem to be any hatred or animosity from the Pro open-carry side towards those who choose to conceal? Maybe we're just the open and accepting ones?

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    I don't think it's USA Carry. It's just the NRA "Instructor" that wrote the article and makes his livelihood from promoting CC.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    As you turn around he smiles at you saying hello, and as you happen to glance down towards his side you see – a gun! What do you think? What do you do? How do you react? What do you say?

    Upon closer inspection you realize it’s a gun holstered on the man’s hip, clearly visible and openly displayed for all to see. As we ponder this scenario, it can clearly go one of two ways. One reaction would be based on ignorance of the state’s gun laws. That observer would panic, either silently or outwardly. They would perhaps rush to get their kids out of there and away from the gun. They might confront the person. They might have a preconceived idea that “only a mad person would bring a gun to a grocery store” and automatically assume guilt on the carrier; that they are there to assault them, or everyone else, and call the police (as happened to Eric Scott, 39, at a Costco in Nevada resulting in his unnecessary death.) The other reaction, would be based on knowledge of the state’s gun laws. This observer would notice the mannerisms of the gentlemen, see a person who is non-threatening, and realize that he is in his legal right to openly carry and accept it. That still says nothing at all about how comfortable they are with that acceptance!
    Spoken like a person who has never OCed a day in his life.

    It simply doesn't happen that way. It really just doesn't. A small minority of people "feel uncomfortable". Then again, you can say the same thing about being male. Some people "feel uncomfortable" around males, too, doncha know. Maybe I should pretend to be a female. Better yet, maybe I should never leave the house – then nobody will ever "feel uncomfortable" around me.

    Also, he's got a real love affair with police going on. I know a great many people who report being more comfortable around armed citizens than armed police; after all, the citizens aren't the ones watching their every move, ready to inflict the predations of government on them at any opportunity.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-24-2013 at 04:25 PM.

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    should do both at same time ... when you get disarmed w/the OC then your CC piece will be a big surprise

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    This happens quite a bit on the usacarry website. I choose to ignore most of it. Sometimes I will leave comments on the articles. Sometimes I just have to comment on some of the most ignorant threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    People who ascribe to the "element of surprise" theory, in my opinion, have watched way too many movies.
    Since none of us are ever going to intentionally put ourselves in a position where we are likely to have to use or threaten deadly force, every defensive gun use means having already lost the element of surprise -- you've been surprised, or else you could have avoided it!

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    Regular Member linerider69's Avatar
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    If people feel threatened that is their problem it is not my duty to inform every person in my state or town that open carry is legal.But that being said i do try to educate by always OCing everywhere i go and weather they ask me or call LEO or research it when they get home then i feel i have done my part.And if Johnathan Celso Thinks it is better to conceal carry then He can pay the $75.00 for the course and the other $85.00 to the Sheriffs dept. And Keep it Secret that is his God given rite more power to you but you should make it clear that it is your opinion and your choice.That's All I Have To Say About That
    Last edited by linerider69; 01-24-2013 at 05:57 PM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I don't mind so much.

    the conceal carry folks don't like open carry because they don't want any more attention to themselves then they have without a gun. many open carry advocates DO in fact choose to OC to exercise their rights and make a statement. some people don't wish to make a statement.

    on the other hand i've found very few CCers have a problem with open carry, those who do usually fall into two camps

    a) people who think they're smarter then other people
    b) people who teach classes nessecary to recieve the king's permission slip to carry under clothing.

    this is just what I've observed my self, don't take it for gospel.

    I will get a CPL when I turn 21, whether to open or conceal is IMO fact dependent, sometimes one is more appropriate. however It's not good when people are being divisive. right now the gun community needs to stick together. for any CCers out there who subscribe to the idea that OC is a bad idea or should be made illegal, don't get smug with yourself, when open carry is taken away, they'll be coming for your shall issue permits next.
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    Quote Originally Posted by linerider69 View Post
    If people feel threatened that is their problem it is not my duty to inform every person in my state or town that open carry is legal.But that being said i do try to educate by always OCing everywhere i go and weather they ask me or call LEO or research it when they get home then i feel i have done my part.And if Johnathan Celso Thinks it is better to conceal carry then He can pay the $75.00 for the course and the other $85.00 to the Sheriffs dept. And Keep it Secret that is his God given rite more power to you but you should make it clear that it is your opinion and your choice.That's All I Have To Say About That
    I applied for my permit primarily so that I can't ever be accused of concealing by accident by a coat or shirt draping over it, and to get exemption from the 100000000000(1000) ft radius GFSZA law.

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    USA Carry Hating on Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    D'ya ever wonder... why there doesn't seem to be any hatred or animosity from the Pro open-carry side towards those who choose to conceal? Maybe we're just the open and accepting ones?
    There's so much truth in that. I don't care how people carry. I prefer OC but am so sick of people focusing on conceal as the way to go.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    D'ya ever wonder... why there doesn't seem to be any hatred or animosity from the Pro open-carry side towards those who choose to conceal?
    Well, I have been known to ridicule "the element of surprise™" from time to time.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I'd rather be left alone than have the element of surprise when I wasn't left alone.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmm72 View Post
    I applied for my permit primarily so that I can't ever be accused of concealing by accident by a coat or shirt draping over it, and to get exemption from the 100000000000(1000) ft radius GFSZA law.
    I would love to see an interactive map that has the 1000foot boundaries laid out.

    I am curious to see how much of a state is not covered by that 1000foot boundary thing.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    USA Carry Hating on Open Carry

    I really don't understand why they wrote this article. This paragraph specifically is annoying.

    Imagine yourself as a non-carrier. You go to get your weekly groceries, fill your cart, try your best to keep items from magically appearing in your kids’ pockets, find a short line at the check-outs, discover the person ringing you out is a new hire, do a quick check to make sure your kids are still with you, and then notice a man is standing behind you with nothing but a basket as he sets it on the conveyor belt. As you turn around he smiles at you saying hello, and as you happen to glance down towards his side you see – a gun! What do you think? What do you do? How do you react? What do you say?
    Why would someone be shocked and scared? Why would someone who reads this sight be scared to find the man behind them in the grocery store carrying a gun openly?


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    Last edited by Steeler-gal; 01-25-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I have never had anyone say or stare at me in a checkout line. I did have a lady one time ask if she could feel my hair, wonder why my OC handgun didn't scare her.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    She asked to feel your hair? How bizare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    the conceal carry folks don't like open carry because they don't want any more attention to themselves then they have without a gun.
    The concealed carry "element of surprise" folks with whom I've personally discussed the issue, all seem to have some Pincus/Yeager/Batman fantasy of seeing a crime about to unfold, and getting into position to spring out with gun drawn and shouting, "A-HA! I HAVE YOU NOW!"

    Most of the time, their fantasy revolves around saving someone else, such as a convenience store clerk during a robbery. I count that as a credit to them, because if their fantasy is of a "Yo homey! Is that my briefcase?" situation and coming out the winner, they're just delusional.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    People who ascribe to the "element of surprise" theory, in my opinion, have watched way too many movies.

    What are you going to do? Whip your gun out from under your clothing during an attack and yell, "Surprise motherf***er!!"

    One could make the argument that those that wish to have the element of surprise are also those that have fantasies about being a hero or having a chance to use their firearm in conflict resolution. After all, it's not about prevention any more - it's about surprise.

    I carry concealed when it is prudent to do so. I carry open when I can. My motivation with both methods of carry is singular: to be afforded an opportunity to neutralize a threat should I ever find myself in that position. I do not seek attention, nor do I wish to "surprise" someone.

    As for the "cause alarm" argument: that is also a weak stance, built around conjecture. A properly holstered, openly carried firearm is no cause for alarm. And while it may offend some people to their core to see or be in the presence of a firearm, it is not a panic-inducing activity - unless you're one of those rare people that would fit the clinical definition of hoplophobe. But last I checked, we don't force police, security, and military to cover up to placate those few. While it may be shocking or surprising to see a non-uniformed person carrying a holstered firearm, it's hardly "alarming".

    These petty arguments that divide our "community" drive me insane. Carry what you want, however you want. I'll do the same.
    Your post pretty much echos my beliefs on this topic. There are certainly times when I deem it to be in my better interests to CC and I do so when they arise. But most of the time I OC. The one thing that CC'ers seem to overlook is the fact that when they are CC'ing properly (their sidearm is invisible and not printing), they look just like any other potential victim. And attacks can come very quickly and at one's complete surprise. An OC'd sidearm does have the inherent ability to ward off most nefarious people when they see it and give them reason to seek other prey. Not all, but most. The point is, you never know when or from where an attack is going to take place and an openly visible firearm does have two distinct advantages: it will ward off most attacks before they begin and if an attack does come, the firearm is easier and quicker to put to use.

    I like your opening statements. Pretty much nails it.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    D'ya ever wonder... why there doesn't seem to be any hatred or animosity from the Pro open-carry side towards those who choose to conceal? Maybe we're just the open and accepting ones?
    Most CC'ers who virulently oppose open carry will usually explain their reasons either deliberately or by context in their postings. At least this is what I have seen on a number of websites. I too, find it curious and more than a bit frustrating that they are not in concert with both modes of carry whereas OC'ers most always fully support both open and concealed carry.

    Now the one thing that so many who post on these various websites (and I have even encountered this on car enthusiast sites) is that they tend to look at the issues of carrying a firearm through the eyes and perceptions of the area in which they live. I can't tell you how many times I have run across people saying how the police would grab someone, throw them to the ground, and cuff them if the saw a handgun on their hip, regardless of whether or not it was legal. I don't know if they're exaggerating a might or if this is actually what might happen where they live, but they fail to see or understand that this doesn't happen everywhere. If they have seen this or heard of it where they live, they seem to naturally think that this is what would take place anywhere.

    They fail to understand that there are places in the country where this would be extremely rare. But you can't tell them that. You can't say that just because this is the "norm" in New York doesn't mean it is anywhere close to normal in Virginia. Their eyes are tainted by their experiences, real or believed.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 01-27-2013 at 08:59 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Most CC'ers who virulently oppose open carry will usually explain their reasons either deliberately or by context in their postings. At least this is what I have seen on a number of websites. I too, find it curious and more than a bit frustrating that they are not in concert with both modes of carry whereas OC'ers most always fully support both open and concealed carry.
    I don't know the reason. I wonder if it has to do with the money and hoops they jumped through. Then makes them agitated that many OCers only have to put on a gun to exercise their rights.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Here is the real difference between OC and CC, at least in most States, including the two I have OCed in: Alabama and Ohio.

    OC is the right. CC is the licensed privilege to cover the firearm and is controlled by the State. I want to be in charge of my exercise of the right, so I OC. Heck, I haven't even gotten my CHL in Ohio yet. I will, but only because Ohio does (unconstitutionally, IMO) restrict the RKBA in a vehicle to license-holders. I am not prepared to be the test case on that one, so I will jump through their hoops to carry in a car without ending up in jail.

    Eventually, however, they will have to be forced to recognize the RKBA almost everywhere, including in my home, in my car, and walking around the public byways.

    One more thing: Notice who is respecting the choices of others and who is not. Who really believes in Liberty, and who believes in their personal ability to exercise a State-granted privilege? If you believe in the RKBA, you believe in OC. You may not choose to do it, but you respect the choice.

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    That's right, carry in your car is a right, but concealed carry isn't.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    75 Armed Men and Women Occupy Local Eatery

    75 Armed Men and Women Occupy Local Eatery
    On Saturday, the 26th of January 2013, a large group of armed men and women began to occupy a local eatery in downtown Atlanta, Georgia. Scruffy individuals in camouflage pants, suspender wearing ne'er-do-wells, and suited businessmen all mixed together with a common occupying purpose. The management of of US Cafe in Buckhead estimated that at one time up to seventy-five openly armed individuals occupied his establishment ordering a wide assortment of delicious burgers, quesadillas, and hot wings. He managed a few surreptitious pictures of the armed group.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xdc1o0nr3stj3eo/JPS7bGD_yb



    There are confirmed reports that an Atlanta Police Department made contact with the armed individuals, but it's rumored that he just pulled out his smartphone to show off pictures of Kydex holsters he had made as though he a proud papa showing off pictures of his children.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-27-2013 at 11:28 AM.

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