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Thread: SW Colorado Meet/Lunch?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    SW Colorado Meet/Lunch?

    First, is there anybody in the Pagosa Springs/Durango area who would be interested in an OC lunch on some weekend? I know of nobody around here who OCs, and would be interested in meeting anybody who does. If it's just a person or two, I'll buy lunch.

    Second, I have no interest in meeting with anybody pro-military, pro-police, or pro-government; period. I'll make it clear: I am a libertarian, and further, an anarchist. I believe that government, in any form, degrades freedom. Individual rights are the only limitations to freedom; that is, one may not infringe on another's rights. I do not have any use for the military, for patriotism, or anything so related. God and country only divide and segregate. Fictional borders separating plots of land have no power over the freedom of the individual man.

    That being said, anyone who wishes to speak of guns, of freedom, of baseball, or of life in general: please contact me! It gets lonely down here being the only gun guy in a hippie town!

    -Alamo Jack

  2. #2
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    As someone who served 5 years in the Navy, is dating the daughter of a police chief and believes that even though it must be limited government is a very necessary function of a civil society, I don't think I'm your guy.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

  3. #3
    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    SW Colorado Meet/Lunch?

    I'll second what Beau said. Having served 7 years in the Navy myself I find it almost insulting that someone who stands for freedom an liberty would not welcome those who sacrificed their own liberties and freedoms to protect yours. But I guess that's one of the reasons we serve, so that others can take advantage of the freedoms and liberties we protect.


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    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    To both Beau and Vader -

    I apologize if my post came off as offensive. It was not my intent at all.

    Let me explain: I harbor no ill-feelings towards any veterans. I would welcome their company. However, what I have no use for is the concept that going to war in a foreign country protects or furthers our own freedom. I'd have to say that it does rather the opposite.

    What drives me batty is when I get into a conversation with a pro-military person who says that we should invade such and such a country and kill all those buggers over there 'cause it protects our American way.

    With absolutely no malice intended, I ask you to ponder this question: In what war in America's history in which we have left our own soil (WW1 & II excluded for the sake of the argument) has actually contributed to our freedom? Which one was actually justified?

    I contend that ALL men are created equal, with certain rights endowed by their creator. Americans have killed many in the pursuit of the American way, and I feel that has deprived much of the world of their share of their God-given rights.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo Jack View Post
    To both Beau and Vader -

    I apologize if my post came off as offensive. It was not my intent at all.

    Let me explain: I harbor no ill-feelings towards any veterans. I would welcome their company. However, what I have no use for is the concept that going to war in a foreign country protects or furthers our own freedom. I'd have to say that it does rather the opposite.

    What drives me batty is when I get into a conversation with a pro-military person who says that we should invade such and such a country and kill all those buggers over there 'cause it protects our American way.

    With absolutely no malice intended, I ask you to ponder this question: In what war in America's history in which we have left our own soil (WW1 & II excluded for the sake of the argument) has actually contributed to our freedom? Which one was actually justified?

    I contend that ALL men are created equal, with certain rights endowed by their creator. Americans have killed many in the pursuit of the American way, and I feel that has deprived much of the world of their share of their God-given rights.
    I won't apologize for sounding harsh earlier, and here's why. Hopefully it may help to answer your question.

    First of all, those who say going to war in a foreign land to "protect our American way" are ignorant, and likely come from lesser educated parts of the country. I joined the Navy on October 4th, 2001, 3 weeks after 9/11. It wasn't to protect anything. I was pissed, and I wanted to fight back. And honestly, I can say that most of my buddies who joined when I did felt the same way. At 18, 19, 20 years old, I knew few my age who were patriotic. In fact, we took every bit of freedom given to us for granted. Hugely for granted. I didn't grow up with a flag flying in my yard, and I always looked forward to the 4th of July for fireworks and BBQ's rather than remembrance, and Veteran's Day just meant a day off school.

    My time spent serving woke me up and made me realize that if it weren't for the men and women in uniform (police, fire, and EMS included), we would live in a vastly different, vastly scary society. Do I agree with going after Saddam in '03? Absolutely not. At least not when we should have been looking for Bin Laden. Do I agree that GW was a good president? What a joke! But, because I served a greedy, vengeful country, I did my job without complaint. We fight for liberty of not only our own, but for everyone in the world. You said it yourself that you feel that much of the world has been deprived of their God-given rights, so that's why we fight. To defend the little man. To stand up for those who can't. We may not have "won" in Vietnam, but they're no longer a torn country. Korea is divided, but look at the regime of the Kim's. Would you rather live there? The Middle East is a touchy subject, I suppose, but I'll say this. We liberated Kuwait after being invaded, and we helped free the Iraqi people from tyranny.

    If the wars in the Gulf were for oil, then why is oil production in the US higher now than it was in 2001? Did you know the US exports more oil than it imports? Funny...how they say it was a war for oil. I will agree that our military leaders at the time, I think, lead more with their hearts full of revenge than brains full of strategy.

    Regardless, all of these things we did, with our allies help, was written in our own decrees, by men who said "if they can't, we will."

    That all men are created equal.

    That everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Not just Americans.

    I implore you to open your mind and broaden your horizons on the topic of our military. Read the first-hand accounts of the Navy SEALs who fought in battles you'd never hear about on CNN. Read Patton's biography. Tune out what you see or hear in the mainstream media. I'm totally serious when I suggest this, but stop by a local VFW or American Legion and ask a Vet to tell you about his or her time serving and why they did, prior to passing judgement. Our government is the problem, I agree. I'm not an anarchist, because I feel that if left to our own devices, we're much worse off. You need rules and laws and structure. But at the same time, we need to hold accountable those who are charged with upholding those laws and rules and structures. IMHO, I feel that Americans are too afraid to stand up against what really is a tyrannical government. Sure, we have angry groups like those found on Pro-2A forums, but that's not enough. I would argue that more than 3/4 of the country, while they say they're fed up with our government, would rather stick their heads in the sand hoping the problem goes away than stand up and take their country back.

    With all that said, I respect your opinions, but I will not agree with them.
    Last edited by Vader33; 01-29-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    It would appear as though we are going to be unable to reach an agreement on this subject, so as a matter of peacekeeping I'm going to drop it. I can get quite passionate and hostile when discussing these sort of matters, and I do not wish to make any enemies, so lets agree to disagree.

    But just as a final note: I come from a military family. My father and my maternal grandfather fought in Vietnam and Korea. My paternal grandfather fought in WWII. His father fought in WWI. I have two great-great(etc.)-grandfathers who fought on opposing sides in the Civil War. My ancestors fought the British in the Revolution. I have had family in every major American war. My father was a homicide detective for over 35 years, and my brother is a CHP officer. I almost became a peace officer, until I realized that I could not protect the liberty of my fellow man while enforcing the laws and performing those duties.

    I come from a long line of military and law enforcement, and I am the first one to break the tradition.

    My father is 70, and suffers resperatory ailments that are a side-affect of his service in Vietnam. He can barely walk from his car to the house. My grandfather dropped Agent Orange in Vietnam, and died of environmental illness from it before I was born. His last few years were spent in a canvas tent up on Pikes Peak, as he could not be around anything manmade. I never met him, and what is his legacy? Countless children being born in Vietnam with birth defects from the chemicals that HE dropped. He made them free so that they could be slaves to their own abnormalities.

    I love my family, but I cannot accept, rationalize, or condone what they have done 'for America'.
    Last edited by Alamo Jack; 02-05-2013 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Punctuation.

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    Re: SW Colorado Meet/Lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo Jack View Post

    That being said, anyone who wishes to speak of guns, of freedom, of baseball, or of life in general: please contact me! It gets lonely down here being the only gun guy in a hippie town!

    -Alamo Jack
    Jack, you should get used to the loneliness and dig your bunker a little deeper.

    Rootbrain

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