NLV - OC in a car?

28kfps said:

Correct me if I am using the wrong wording or got this incorrect. NLV courts are courts of no records? There is no recordings of the proceedings, no one is allowed to have any type of recording device?

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I've never been in one. I'm taking it to mean that the findings of the court are not official to the state of NV. As such, you are automatically allowed to appeal any ruling to a NV-recognized court.

I've never cared to research it further, yet. I wonder what authority they have to have a "court" if it isn't "of record."

I can just see someone like me in there saying: May it please the "court...," and using large hand gestures for the quotation marks.

You are correct 28kfps, NLV and Boulder City are both Courts of non record in Clark County, If you appeal a Criminal conviction, IE: traffic ticket from either of these Courts, You get what is called a Trial De Novo (SP) In legal speak it means "Do Over" as if the first one never happened. The courts themselves are unsure how to act, whenever challenged on this (I have personally challenged both of these political subdivisions)

It appears that the State somehow substantiated Courts of non record for municipality's who's Court system is NRS deficient. NLV has a record of electing Judges (Ex Cops) who had no legal background. While Victor Miller in Boulder City does have a legal background, The City council for some reason has not put their Court system in compliance with the laws of the State of Nevada. It could be that they do not want anyone to know what goes on in their courts. Not having a record certainly accomplishes that.

It cost me $12.00 to appeal my helmet citation conviction to district court, and it was dismissed. It cost me $50.00 to appeal the Boulder City ticket, as they admitted they had not experienced an appeal before and decided to just charge a regular witness fee for the appeal. When I came across this situation I brought it up to some Attorney friends of mine, and they had never considered such a scheme. much less been aware of it. To this day (years later) it is still hush hush, and I encounter attorneys who have no understanding, over the court system in these two towns.

I have successfully defended all of my convictions from these courts of non record, and have collected my costs for doing such including the $12 and $50 filing fees,. It is an important distinction to recognize. I had a NLV judge "Van Landshoot" specifically raise his voice in court and tell me "The law does not matter in my Court" boy was he right!

Having gone down the road I have been down I would do this if I were cited or arrested in one of these city's.
Cite: Go to court with 30 one dollar bills (exact change) and three copies "filled out of the one page form obtained by PM'ing DTOM, If the Judge does not dismiss ask for the payment plan, to pay and immediately go see a window lady to file your appeal. It is quite possible the window lady will tell you that you cannot appeal unless you "post bail" (pay your fine) I would ask for the law, policy, or any other reference to back up her claim. If after a few mins. she still wont accept your appeal form I woulds write "served in person on one of the copy's, let her know, and get the best description I could, before leaving. writing it on the form I am sending to District court. I then would go to the receptionist , tell her I am here to pay a ticket, She would give me a number, and I would take that as evidence and walk out. Note NLV is quick to call in the Marshall's so pushing should be done moderately)

Appeal straight to District Court. now they are doing it electronically on I believe the 2nd floor of the RJC building. There are helpful lady's there. Or get a "wiznet acct" $3.00 per filing and no TSA style checkpoint.

If arrested:
In custody and at arraignment I would not make too much of a deal about it, as it is easier to work when you are not behind bars. However Clark County has a form called "Acknowledgement and waiver of rights" DO NOT SIGN IT! Have the Judge read you your charges: this way you have something to request from the record.

Upon release, I would start asking for the record or transcripts of my arraignment, I do not consent to proceeding unless they can produce the charges against you. upon appeal, you will get a whole new arraignment. and Trial.

There is a lot of info about this that I have not covered but it was good that 28kfps brought it up. I have somewhat moved on to Federal court in the fights i am in, but this is important and needs attention.

DTOM, thanks foir the valuable information. I have run into 'Justice Courts' when I lived in AZ and though it's been a while and too late for me to appeal any decision; IIRC my research back then showed them as "courts of no record". The judge I went before was an elected official who also owned a photography shop; obviously without legal experience.

There are 17 Municipal Courts in the state of Nevada. The Municipal Courts manage cases involving violations of traffic and misdemeanor ordinances that occur within the city limits of incorporated municipalities. Depending on the “whims” of the particular municipality, these municipal courts are or are not “courts of record.” Each of these courts is funded by the city and most of the funds collected by the Municipal Court go into the municipalities' general fund. The municipal courts are presided over by 30 Municipal Court judges with 8 of them also serving as Justices of the Peace.

There are 43 Justice Courts in the state of Nevada. They handle misdemeanor crime and traffic matters, small claims disputes, evictions, and other civil matters less than $10,000. By statute, the justice courts are “courts of record.” The justices of the peace also preside over felony and gross misdemeanor arraignments and conduct preliminary hearings to determine if sufficient evidence exists to hold criminals for trial at District Court. Each county funds Justice Courts and the funds collected by the courts go to their respective county treasurer for disbursement to county and state entities. The Justice Courts are presided over by 75 Justices of the Peace with 8 of them also serving as Municipal Court judges.

http://supreme.nvcourts.gov/Supreme/Court_Information/About_the_Nevada_Judiciary/

Do I need a "blue card" / registration to legally carry in Vegas? I.e. when I arrive I need to register my firearm with the PD?

cirrusly said:

Do I need a "blue card" / registration to legally carry in Vegas? I.e. when I arrive I need to register my firearm with the PD?

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If you are visiting and a legal gun owner you are good to go open carry. CCing ok if Nv recognizes your states permit. Registration comes I believe 60 days after one was to move to Clark County. I do not live in Clark County where the blue card is issued my carry gun is not registered with Clark County I too am legal as you to OC and do every week for years.

Understood. Thanks- not having to register since I am not a resident makes thugs easier.

But this law for North Las Vegas (NLV) city is disconcerting. So pretty much it is "illegal" to carry at all in a vehicle? I read it should be preempted by NV State code, but it has never been successfully overturned and there have been arrests. So do we leave our weapons cased and unloaded while driving through Las Vegas?

I'm surprised NV has earned a "gold star" for OC. The NLV region sounds a bit like how the city of Denver is to Colorado.

cirrusly said:

...But this law for North Las Vegas (NLV) city is disconcerting. So pretty much it is "illegal" to carry at all in a vehicle? I read it should be preempted by NV State code, but it has never been successfully overturned and there have been arrests. So do we leave our weapons cased and unloaded while driving through Las Vegas?

I'm surprised NV has earned a "gold star" for OC. The NLV region sounds a bit like how the city of Denver is to Colorado.

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You say there have been arrests. Can you cite this please? If you've seen reports of these arrests, please note who was being arrested and if there were other charges.

The fact is that normal people have nothing to fear from NLV's old ordinance. They know it is not enforceable and they don't even bring it up unless you are a thug being arrested for the other thug things you were doing at the time.

Many of us openly carry in NLV, and several times their cops have seen me get into my vehicle with a firearm. I grew up in NLV.

NV is very much a gold star state for OC. You have nothing to worry about in NLV unless you are gang-banging, drug-dealing, or drag racing.

MAC702 said:

You say there have been arrests. Can you cite this please? If you've seen reports of these arrests, please note who was being arrested and if there were other charges..

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After 5 minutes of searching here is evidence to directly answer your question:

First, in contradiction to your skepticism of there being arrests pursuant to NLV Code 9.32.040, you have already admitted on these forums that there are "numerous reports of [...] arrests because it it."

MAC702 said:

OC in NLV is completely legal (per the state preemption) fully loaded, but there are numerous reports of illegal detainments and arrests because of it.

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More specifically, on your Nevada forum our fellow member usmcmustang described his son's arrest under NLV Code 9.32.040:

usmcmustang said:

Well... my son was arrested for open carrying in his vehicle back in May of 2011. He was pulled over by a NLV motor cop for traffic violation(s) and when my son informed the officer that he was open carrying (thought it best to do since he had to reach near his weapon to remove his wallet for ID, etc.), the officer called for backup and ultimately arrested my son, impounded his vehicle, and booked him into jail. Charge of dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle in violation of NLV Ordinance was taken to court by the NLV City Attorney and evidence was heard... however, in a strange "move" the presiding judge called for "points and authorities" from both plaintiff and defendant AFTER the bench trial was completed but before rendering judgement. After the submission of the points and authorities by both parties, the plaintiff moved to have the charge dropped and the motion was granted by the judge...

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And another member on your state forum described her son's arrest under similar circumstances, again under NLV Code 9.32.040. This member was also arrested for merely video recording her son's arrest:

TigerLily said:

On May 26th, my 28 year old son, an open carrier, was stopped while driving his car in North Las Vegas. [...] while keeping his hands on his steering wheel, and to keep the cop from freaking, my son informed the cop that he was open carrying a loaded weapon. [...] I walked toward the scene with my video cam and the cop that arrested my son approached me and met me half way, which was about 30 feet from the scene. The cop ordered me to go away and I asked if it was unlawful for me to video. He said, "Stay right there, then. Don't come any closer." I stayed put and told him I was the mother and had questions. [...] cuffed me and shoved me into the back of a police car.

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So again, I seriously inquire: How is Nevada a "Gold Star" state? This sounds about on par with Chicago. I would love to qualify for and receive a Nevada CCW next time I visit so I can carry in subsequent visits to Las Vegas, but given the OC climate of that city as evident from members' accounts from this forum, it would be wise to leave the gun at home.

cirrusly said:

After 5 minutes of searching here is evidence to directly answer your question:

First, in contradiction to your skepticism of there being arrests pursuant to NLV Code 9.32.040, you have already admitted on these forums that there are "numerous reports of [...] arrests because it it."...

So again, I seriously inquire: How is Nevada a "Gold Star" state? This sounds about on par with Chicago. I would love to qualify for and receive a Nevada CCW next time I visit so I can carry in subsequent visits to Las Vegas, but given the OC climate of that city as evident from members' accounts from this forum, it would be wise to leave the gun at home.

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In the nearly two years since I've posted that, I've heard of no issues, and have reservations regarding most of the old accounts I had heard about, and have modified my advice accordingly.

I do not know the exact circumstances of the sons of the two posters, and will not give my guesses here. Just remember that cops will be cops, no matter what city you are in.

I will continue to OC in NLV, including in my vehicle, and know of many others who do as well.

Chicago? Really?

By the way, it is perfectly legal for me to have a loaded handgun in my vehicle in Chicago, and I was one of the first people in the country to take advantage of that new law when I drove through there shortly after they changed their laws.

MAC702 said:

In the nearly two years since I've posted that, I've heard of no issues, and have reservations regarding most of the old accounts I had heard about, and have modified my advice accordingly.

I do not know the exact circumstances of the sons of the two posters, and will not give my guesses here. Just remember that cops will be cops, no matter what city you are in.

I will continue to OC in NLV, including in my vehicle, and know of many others who do as well.

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OC is disconcerting there. There was another article about a man whom was reportedly held at gun-point, detained, disarmed by NLV PD. The only RS was not RS at all: "man walking with a weapon." When the police left, they set his magazine on a sewer grate across the street, and his weapon on the ground with strict instructions not to touch them until they were out of sight...

I can't even make this stuff up! If you'd like the link as evidence, I can gladly post it later; I just need to find it again.

MAC702 said:

Chicago? Really?

By the way, it is perfectly legal for me to have a loaded handgun in my vehicle in Chicago, and I was one of the first people in the country to take advantage of that new law when I drove through there shortly after they changed their laws.

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Yes- I contend Chicago is an excellent comparison. Like NLV, it is technically not illegal to carry in a vehicle, yet there is an elevated potential for wrongful police intervention. Specifically, if you are legally able to possess and in your own state, you may do so within the confines of your vehicle throughout the state of Illinois.

However, I have it on good authority of a LEO in the Chicago suburbs area that the police are not aware of this law which allows out-of-staters to "car carry," and was told he would surely arrest. (This is an officer I went to undergraduate with, he is pro-2A, but officers, including himself are not trained on the new legal provision.)

So, comparison of car carry in NLV and Chicago is a very fair comparison. I am possibly being overly generous, as Chicago has not had any arrests yet (to my knowledge) in contradiction with the "car carry" provision, but as we've seen NLV has had arrests under NLV Code 9.32.040.

I was in the NLV DMV last week and I open carried in there. No issues.

And for clarification - I'm not trying to sound like "Dr. Doom" here. However, I want all OCers to have complete information when they choose to exercise their right. And thus, they one must weigh the probability of unlawful detainment and/or arrest for a given municipality or state.

Some of us on here, including myself cannot afford to ever be arrested. I would doubtingly lose my job (due to the fact many of my clients are public-sector and I need to maintain a security clearance.) So- it's important to weigh the potential repercussions of every OC situation carefully; whether or not those repercussions are legally justifiable.

I do OC here regularly in NoVA and have had several LEO encounters (fortunately all positive.) But I have a deep understanding of the OC climate laws, and legislation here in NoVA and am weary of OCing in a different state unless thoroughly do my homework.

Stay safe, carry on.

cirrusly said:

And for clarification - I'm not trying to sound like "Dr. Doom" here. However, I want all OCers to have complete information when they choose to exercise their right. And thus, they one must weigh the probability of unlawful detainment and/or arrest for a given municipality or state.

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The post you dug up from those two people, was the same arrest. That is the husband and wife. Tigerlil and USMCmustang. And as MAC said there were other things involved. I dont OC in NLV everyday but I do carry there and in the car. I have never had a issue. I have just like MAC been seen by cops that could have jacked me up, but didnt not. Its really a non issue.

Vegassteve said:

The post you dug up from those two people, was the same arrest. That is the husband and wife. Tigerlil and USMCmustang. And as MAC said there were other things involved. I dont OC in NLV everyday but I do carry there and in the car. I have never had a issue. I have just like MAC been seen by cops that could have jacked me up, but didnt not. Its really a non issue.

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Yes, there were other things involved... stop was as a result of an alleged traffic violation. However, the arrest, non consensual search and impound of car, and incarceration were the direct result of being armed in an automobile in violation of the CNLV ordinance. Those actions by the CNLV police were an attempt at "punishment" for what they believed to be an "uncooperative" suspect. That said, it has not deterred any of us from open carrying in the CNLV, in or out of a car, or on our motorcycles. It seems obvious to me that the CNLV police will use the city ordinance in particular circumstances to serve their needs/wants/desires. I guess the bottom line here would be to not find yourself in those "particular circumstances," if at all possible.

usmcmustang said:

Yes, there were other things involved... stop was as a result of an alleged traffic violation. However, the arrest, non consensual search and impound of car, and incarceration were the direct result of being armed in an automobile in violation of the CNLV ordinance. Those actions by the CNLV police were an attempt at "punishment" for what they believed to be an "uncooperative" suspect. That said, it has not deterred any of us from open carrying in the CNLV, in or out of a car, or on our motorcycles. It seems obvious to me that the CNLV police will use the city ordinance in particular circumstances to serve their needs/wants/desires. I guess the bottom line here would be to not find yourself in those "particular circumstances," if at all possible.

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That was another case of costumed men looking to brandish authority. What a mess.

cirrusly said:

... comparison of car carry in NLV and Chicago is a very fair comparison...

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I have several times been pulled over by police in NLV. Every single time I have had guns in my vehicle, including a rifle and a shotgun in the rack. I've never been arrested. NLV cops have never even disarmed me, unlike a Henderson cop and a rookie State Trooper, and Henderson and the state have excellent reputations for respecting state laws.

Seriously? That sounds like Chicago?

usmcmustang said:

...Those actions by the CNLV police were an attempt at "punishment" for what they believed to be an "uncooperative" suspect. ...

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Exactly.

Cops will be cops everywhere. NLV is not the only place where cops have wrongly handled OC'ers. NLV, in reality, has no extra precautions necessary. I lived there for 20+ years before moving into unincorporated Clark County. I travel into NLV on a regular basis still.

And these very few instances, combined with the state law that gets it handled, when necessary, clearly make NV a gold star carry state for the purposes of OCDO.