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Thread: Gun owners plan to refuse to register in NY

  1. #1
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Gun owners plan to refuse to register in NY

    Preparations are already being made for mass resistance. “I’ve heard from hundreds of people that they’re prepared to defy the law, and that number will be magnified by the thousands, by the tens of thousands, when the registration deadline comes,’’ said President Brian Olesen with American Shooters Supply, among the biggest gun dealers in the state, in an interview with the New York Post.

    Even government officials admit that forcing New Yorkers to register their guns will be a tough sell, and they are apparently aware that massive non-compliance will be the order of the day. “Many of these assault-rifle owners aren’t going to register; we realize that,’’ a source in the Cuomo administration told the Post, adding that officials expect “widespread violations” of the new statute.

    ...

    If tens or even hundreds of thousands of otherwise law-abiding citizens refuse to comply, however, analysts say New York would either have to start raising taxes and building a lot more prisons, or give up on the scheme that experts say will do nothing to reduce violence and that lawmakers say is aimed at eventual confiscation.
    - http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...r-new-york-law
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    New York has been low on my list ever since I found out they sent scumbag weasel Alexander Hamilton to the constitutional convention.

    But, widespread refusal to register firearms would go a long way towards making up for the Hamilton mistake in my mind.

    Go, New Yorkers!!



    Oh, I'm sorry. I just advocated breaking the law. A clear violation of the forum rules. Well, here's hoping the moderators will overlook it this once.
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-27-2013 at 09:07 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    If Obama gets his way I have a feeling most of the people on this forum will be breaking the law. It's possible the forum rules will need to be amended to account for us all being criminals.

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    Newbie Deacon Blues's Avatar
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    Advocating breaking the law certainly is against the forum rules. However, discussion and debate over the legality of certain actions is not; indeed, it is the meat and potatoes of this forum. Therefore, rather than talk of breaking laws, I believe the discussion here should be focused on nullification and interposition. Some of us believe they are legal, and some do not. This seems like a perfect opportunity to make a case either way, in a practical rather than hypothetical context.

    Personally, I would love to find a way to materially support the people of New York who are bravely standing against tyranny. Many outside NY will say that this is not our fight, but I could not disagree more. I think I understand what MLK Jr. meant when he said, "no one is free until we are all free."

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    Gun owners plan to refuse to register in NY

    I have a feeling that the official position of this forum is very close to my personal view: Follow the law until and unless we arrive at a When-in-the-course-of-Human-Events Moment. If and when that happens, I suspect we will still be in accord, and that all bets, every last one of them, will be off.

    The course of Human Events is getting scary close to saying "When."

    As far as the official position of the board, I'd bet they'd say that we aren't there yet. I'd agree.

    On edit:
    Deacon: It could very well be that another "Shot Heard 'round the World" will be fired, this time in NY. I dearly hope that our Liberty and the Republic can be restored without such a Shot. I have less and less faith that that will be the case. Too bad. It was a great run for a couple of hundred years.

    BTW, every time I see your screen name, I can't help but think of Charles Bronson's character in Breakheart Pass.

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    Last edited by eye95; 01-27-2013 at 10:29 PM.

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    Gun owners plan to refuse to register in NY

    Again, you are advising folks not to follow a law that could result in jail time--FOR THEM! Please be cavalier with your own freedom, not with others'.

    Folks, until and unless there is a court ruling saying that the registration provision is unconstitutional, your choices are three. Pick one, but be aware of the potential consequences for each choice.

    1. Register your firearm according to the law. The consequence is that, if confiscation starts before registration is ruled unconstitutional (or, more likely, when it isn't), the government knows what to come and get.

    2. Refuse to register. The consequence could be arrest, jail time, and/or a fine. You could also forfeit your RKBA as having been convicted of a crime that could result in jail time of a year or more (whether it does or does not, just IF it can).

    3. (And this would be the one I advise) Move. Leave NY for a State that better respects the Right.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Retail purchase of firearms in NY have been registered via the form 4473. It seems that the state of NY has a legal foundation to have those forms forwarded to the state. It is likely that the law will be implemented, citizen compliance, whether or not a citizen actively complies with the law.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Maybe gun owners should take to wearing six-pointed stars with the word "Juden" (or "Jude") inside the star's border.
    Last edited by BB62; 01-28-2013 at 08:23 AM.

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    Regular Member linerider69's Avatar
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    Leave N.Y. get out while you can.Boycot New York don't give them your tax dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    New York has been low on my list ever since I found out they sent scumbag weasel Alexander Hamilton to the constitutional convention.

    But, widespread refusal to register firearms would go a long way towards making up for the Hamilton mistake in my mind.

    Go, New Yorkers!!



    Oh, I'm sorry. I just advocated breaking the law. A clear violation of the forum rules. Well, here's hoping the moderators will overlook it this once.
    +1

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    When I first joined the Air Force, I had intended to return to NY when I got out or retired. Then I had a chance to see the real America. I figured out that the taxation and oppression in NY were unacceptable. I wanted to be responsible for myself, not taken care of by a nanny state, for only through responsibility comes real Liberty. Apart from visits, I haven't been back and will never return to NY to live. It is a small one, but it is their loss. Enough little losses, and NY will die the death of a thousand cuts.

    If you love Liberty, get out of NY. Leave it to those who want the nanny state. Without producers, the leeches will suck it dry, and the whole thing will collapse under its own weight. Only then will Liberty have a chance in NY, a tiny one, but a chance.

    Oh, and I just noticed, you can't spell nanny without NY.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    New York has been low on my list ever since I found out they sent scumbag weasel Alexander Hamilton to the constitutional convention.

    But, widespread refusal to register firearms would go a long way towards making up for the Hamilton mistake in my mind.

    Go, New Yorkers!!



    Oh, I'm sorry. I just advocated breaking the law. A clear violation of the forum rules. Well, here's hoping the moderators will overlook it this once.
    +1 more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Again, you are advising folks not to follow a law that could result in jail time--FOR THEM! Please be cavalier with your own freedom, not with others'.

    Folks, until and unless there is a court ruling saying that the registration provision is unconstitutional, your choices are three. Pick one, but be aware of the potential consequences for each choice.

    1. Register your firearm according to the law. The consequence is that, if confiscation starts before registration is ruled unconstitutional (or, more likely, when it isn't), the government knows what to come and get.

    2. Refuse to register. The consequence could be arrest, jail time, and/or a fine. You could also forfeit your RKBA as having been convicted of a crime that could result in jail time of a year or more (whether it does or does not, just IF it can).

    3. (And this would be the one I advise) Move. Leave NY for a State that better respects the Right.


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    u forgot a 4th: file a case w/o being arrested and have a court decide if its legal

    u forgot a 5th: move you guns out of state

    eye95 is just trying to scare people into registering w/o offering viable alternatives

    Register or Rose O'Donnell will move in with you !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    When I first joined the Air Force,
    Did u join twice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    u forgot a 4th: file a case w/o being arrested and have a court decide if its legal

    u forgot a 5th: move you guns out of state

    eye95 is just trying to scare people into registering w/o offering viable alternatives

    Register or Rose O'Donnell will move in with you !!!
    I hope that I am scaring people off from listening to your dangerous advice. You do it. Stop telling others to refuse to register. Let them make that informed choice for themselves after someone (you certainly won't ever) informs them of the potential consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Did u join twice?
    As a matter of fact, four times.

    Have you ever served? If you had, you might know that, in order to reenlist, one must first be discharged. Technically, your service ends and you join again.

    However, that is not what I meant. "First" is not always an ordinal number. Sometimes the word can refer to when something begins. So, if you are getting persnickety about my use of language, you might want to explore the meaning of the word you are nitpicking.

    Moving on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post

    Have you ever served? .
    Only one term. When asked to re-up I noted that we are fighting socialism but that the service is a socialist society; hence I could not in good conscience re-up.

    Just saw the word "first" and wondered.

    You are my biggest fan. We should build a clubhouse together.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 01-28-2013 at 11:15 PM.

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    Make no mistake about it: I am no fan of yours. I find your advice to be dangerous and destructive to others. My interactions with you serve a single purpose: to warn others to think twice before following any of your "legal" advice. Your advice is one day going to get someone jailed or killed.

    Oh, and the military is not socialist. It is an organization that people voluntarily join. Calling the military socialist is like calling a condo building socialist. Folks are contributing to each others welfare. However, they voluntarily enter into that relationship for mutual benefit. That is called "free enterprise."

    What I assume you mean to say is that you did not like the extent you gave up control of a lot of the details of your life for the benefits and pay that you received in return. Giving up that control was your choice. Not giving it up after one hitch was also a valid choice. The fact that you saw that voluntary relationship as socialist is just another example of the lack of depth to your thinking that we often see in your "legal" advice.

  19. #19
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    As a matter of fact, four times.

    Have you ever served? If you had, you might know that, in order to reenlist, one must first be discharged. Technically, your service ends and you join again.

    However, that is not what I meant. "First" is not always an ordinal number. Sometimes the word can refer to when something begins. So, if you are getting persnickety about my use of language, you might want to explore the meaning of the word you are nitpicking.

    Moving on.
    You used persnickety. Well done.

    Back to the OP.

    New York state's population, 2012 estimate: 19,570,261
    New York City's population, July of 2011 estimate: 8,244,910

    Given the above numbers it seems that urban centers drive the level of liberty that the citizens of New York state desire to be "given" to them by the state.

    Compliance with current law is how we gain standing in front of the court. Liberty is restored when the citizenry uses constitutional means to restrain the state. It takes time to infringe upon liberty and it will take time to regain liberty.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  20. #20
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Encouraging people to disobey the law goes against the purpose of this forum, only provides ammo to our adversaries - they WILL use it as an excuse to say that we are reckless, lawless, and push to keep us under even tighter control. There are ways we can resist without breaking the law. Even if these options aren't viable, they are still options.

    1) Move out of the state or refuse to visit/participate in that state's business.
    2) Encourage people or businesses to move out of state - I would very much like to see Kimber move out of New York.
    3) Sue the state

    However, I will not get on somebody's case for making a free choice to disobey a law they believe to be tyrannical or unjust. The civil rights movement was accelerated by people doing what they weren't "supposed to." However that is their choice and they must be prepared to suffer the consequences if they get caught. In my opinion, the only way deliberate and public opposition to an unjust law can have positive impact is if such efforts are well coordinated, continuous, and organized among a sizable percentage of the population - again, see the civil rights movement. If the many thousands of New York gun owners refuse to comply it would get Albany's and DC's attention, but they must be ready to accept the possibility that it may backfire. (And don't respond with a right exercised is a right lost, in New York, the right is lost).

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