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disorderly conduct

bad_astronaut

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
9
Location
Caldwell, Idaho
Well, I guess when you open carry the type of firearm that is not the type this forum is devoted to with the intent of drawing attention then you get what you are looking for.

That is what you were looking for wasn't it? Testing the waters, so to speak, in Idaho?

I'm perfectly fine with oc of the * guns when actually carried with a legitimate purpose. Self defense included. "Testing the waters" is not a legitimate purpose in my opinion.

I'm also not ok with cuffing, detaining and lying to a citizen that is doing nothing unlawful.

My opinion is both parties were equal in their participation.

I have to agree with this post. And since it is plainly expressed in forum rules that this forum is dedicated to open carry of pistols (except in CA) then who cares if this thread is locked by you know who. Not sure what you've heard about Nampa, but I don't feel the need to carry a pistol and AR to assure my safety.
 

nny420

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
84
Location
lincoln city
grew up here

I grew up in nampa then moved to boise area untill graduating school and i left. I behave this exact way in oregon and when i come to visit family i am not going to change my ways. Its not about the weapon its about my legal rights. This could have easily been an AR pistol and i would have still carried. I carry the way i carry and i know i was not breaking any laws nor was i being grumpy or rude. I had a smile on my face and i looked good :)
 

carracer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
1,108
Location
Nampa, Idaho, USA
I grew up in nampa then moved to boise area untill graduating school and i left. I behave this exact way in oregon and when i come to visit family i am not going to change my ways. Its not about the weapon its about my legal rights. This could have easily been an AR pistol and i would have still carried. I carry the way i carry and i know i was not breaking any laws nor was i being grumpy or rude. I had a smile on my face and i looked good :)

So, do you wear it on your back when riding in the car? Or do you have to shoulder it up every time you get out?
I suspect you will soon get tired of the hassle of gearing up all the time.

I respect the right you have to carry the l*** gun. I don't respect the purpose you have chosen.

Sorry, just me.

On another note, the long gun carriers at the Capital building on the 19th were a wonderful bunch of folks. I am sure you are also. Especially when you mentioned not being grumpy or rude.
 
Last edited:

nny420

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
84
Location
lincoln city
great conversation

Had a great conversation with the stor manager. He assured me they want me to shop there and dont care what i carry. The police lie.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Wish i had a recorder there. And the srg. Informed me when i was uncuffed im no longer allowed to patron the store. Never had any contact with a manager. Step one??? Complain to FM? Or i guess i should get a lawyer. But they cost green i dont have

I smell a 1983 suit. You bet the violated a law...a lot of laws. They cannot (I see they did not try) tresspass you, and they have no business even contacting you unles FM management had called them because you refused to leave when asked to. They also have no right to tell you not to shop at FM. Talk about a NEED for a reallygood suit to put them back in their place.

You need to file for the information they have, and then you need to contacr a good lawyer.
 

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
Sometimes I miss Boise, especially shooting at the National Guard Training area (well, except for the idiots who shoot without proper backstop). But I can't imagine getting arrested for carrying an AR here in AZ.
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
With a good lawyer, you might get 10-15K out of this (compared to others I've seen).
The fact that the store did not call in the LEOs or officially trespass you, then the LEOs exceeded their authority, add 5K.

Like the others said, get a lawyer, let them analyze and decide if you go Fed or State civil rights case.
Have the lawyer subpena the store's video & get FOIAs for the 4 LEO's reports and a copy of the radio traffic related to this.

Good luck and keep us updated (if your lawyer says it's ok).
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
re: a good lawyer
I highly recommend John Monroe. He's based in GA but handles cases across the country.
Both nny & Warren should contact him (probably with a link to this thread) & explain what the police have done wrong in this case.
I had police do something bad & illegal to me, and when I did an open records request to get the documentation I needed to sue them, they wouldn't give it to me unless I promised (in writing) not to sue them.
Needless to say, they lost. :)
His email is john.monroe1 @ earthlink.net
678-362-7650

Warren Drouin said:
Just contacted the Garden City Police in Idaho. They would not allow me to have any information.
Oooooooo... how about a suit because they've violated the Freedom of Information Act? :D
And there's probably an open records law for the state too.

nny420 said:
But i dont see how my rights to silence make me rude.
It doesn't, either at the scene or here.
But the police will label you as "uncooperative". :mad:

carracer said:
Still haven't answered my question tho, What were you carrying and how?
See post #14. I thought that answered your repeated questions. And asking over & over probably isn't going to convince him to say more if he doesn't want to. I know it wouldn't work on me.

carracer said:
when you open carry ... with the intent of drawing attention then you get what you are looking for.
...
I'm perfectly fine with oc of the * guns when actually carried with a legitimate purpose. ... "Testing the waters" is not a legitimate purpose in my opinion.
Oh, not this again. :mad:
If someone isn't doing something illegal, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.
And you're starting to sound like the anti's, or the cc only folks - "this action is bad because I don't like it", & "I think you're doing it to get attention".
 

carracer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
1,108
Location
Nampa, Idaho, USA
re: a good lawyer
I highly recommend John Monroe. He's based in GA but handles cases across the country.
Both nny & Warren should contact him (probably with a link to this thread) & explain what the police have done wrong in this case.
I had police do something bad & illegal to me, and when I did an open records request to get the documentation I needed to sue them, they wouldn't give it to me unless I promised (in writing) not to sue them.
Needless to say, they lost. :)
His email is john.monroe1 @ earthlink.net
678-362-7650


Oooooooo... how about a suit because they've violated the Freedom of Information Act? :D
And there's probably an open records law for the state too.


It doesn't, either at the scene or here.
But the police will label you as "uncooperative". :mad:


See post #14. I thought that answered your repeated questions. And asking over & over probably isn't going to convince him to say more if he doesn't want to. I know it wouldn't work on me.


Oh, not this again. :mad:
If someone isn't doing something illegal, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.
And you're starting to sound like the anti's, or the cc only folks - "this action is bad because I don't like it", & "I think you're doing it to get attention".


Hmmm... "Waaaaa! Waaaa!! Waaaa!!!" Yeah, that was me not you. Here's the scoop on my post(s).

I had suspicions about what was being carried as typically in Idaho you are not hassled by LEO. No one typically calls to report a mwag. I politely asked 3 times before the was any mention other than "like I carry in my home town...". Certainly makes it seem like he was hiding something. Even if just because discussion of long gun carry is stretching or breaking the forum rules.

I mentioned that I supported his rights to carry whatever and the GCPD overstepped their authority. However, I commented to him: "As i suspected. You are more likely to be confronted carrying a long gun, especially within a business, than just ocing a hand gun. I'm sure you know that tho. Just testing the waters?"
His reply: "You betcha carry on friend!"

His sole intent was attention getting. I have the right to wear a t-shirt with F... Y.. in big letters on it also. Perfectly legal, but, in bad taste.

I later stated: "On another note, the long gun carriers at the Capital building on the 19th were a wonderful bunch of folks. I am sure you are also. Especially when you mentioned not being grumpy or rude."
So, as you see, I was not berating or lecturing. Merely stating my opinion and also recognizing that he is most likely a nice guy as the other LG carriers were.

As I stated, I support his right to do such and will defend it. I don't have to like his stated reason for doing so.
 

nny420

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
84
Location
lincoln city
open carry is open carry

'You betcha carry on friend" was a polite way to not feed into the question... i forget you cant see my expression or hear sarcasm.

I carry every day and i dont conform to "scared" people who arent able to handle there own feelings.
My lawful buisness is mine and shouldnt be infringe. . Period.
 

DCR

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
162
Location
, ,
Reality Check

You have to ask yourself "What's the price of principle here?"

Sounds like FM wasn't the problem - and welcomes your business. Scratch one defendant - one with deep pockets, too. Bummer.

You can't go after GCPD for their refusal to turn over any information or paperwork under the public records act because YOU didn't file a written request - a third party did, and did it over the phone. Further, there's an exception to the public records act that allows LE to deny records requests if they deem it "under investigation." Since they can wait a year before charging someone with a misdemeanor, they can deny records requests for that year. Longer if they decide it may be a felony (not that they would, but as you saw, they are pretty stupid...) Also - it's not an presently active civil or criminal court case, so no discovery requirements, and the public records act doesn't apply in court cases - discovery rules/rules of civil procedure do. No case = no discovery.

If you want to sue the officers and/or the GCPD (it has deeper pockets than individual cops, and insurance, too), you can't just run to court. You have to send a detailed notice of tort claim (yes, you'll need a lawyer) within 6 months, and then they'd have a long time before they have to deny it in writing (they will, taking their sweet time to do so). It's likely several months to a year after the incident now...time is money...what's your price of principle?

Then you file your lawsuit. Pay a lawyer up front to draft and file it, or if he takes it on a contingency, you pay if you win through his 40% (or more) cut. What's the price of principle? Oh, and it costs money for a process server to serve each defendant.

Now you can subpoena FM's footage (can't issue a subpoena unless there's an active court case). Whoops...it's gone, purged per FM's record retention policy. Or "accidentally" (they like frequent patrolling and free security). Costs money to serve them all. Oh, and you have to pay duplication costs so they can keep their original - due process and all. Has to go to a licensed/bonded duplicator - $$$. What's the price of principle?

Now you can take depositions of the cops and witnesses. Whoops - got money? Times are tough for everyone, including lawyers - who'd ordinarily front the deposition costs as they do in car crash cases, but a few minutes' detention and snotty cops doesn't smell of payoff like personal injuries, and the circumstances as you describe them, plus the possibility something unfavorable or unsympathetic to you shows up on tape or from other witnesses makes it dicey for a lawyer to throw good money at potentially nothing. What's your price of principle?

They'll file pretrial motions to dismiss. Takes money to fight them. If they win on any of these motions, the loser pays their fees (people who squawk about tort reform don't know what they're talking about - "loser pays" is in all 50 states. Idaho has negligence damages caps at somewhere around $250K, adjusted for inflation. Intentional torts can get punitive damages, but insurance doesn't cover those, so the winner doesn't end up with any more than what the loser owns, after he files bankruptcy. Getting a judgment is only half the battle - enforcing and collecting on it after appeals is hard and expensive and takes forever. At this point you'd be 3-5 years after the incident. What's the price of principle?

You'll be ordered to pretrial mediation, which in this case will likely be unsuccessful because both sides are strong-headed. Mediators cost money, and usually it's the PARTIES, not the lawyers, who pay the mediator. For three sessions minimum. All day sessions. At $125-300 per hour. You've had this going now for between 1-2 years. What's the price of principle?

Whether you file in state or federal court, your jurors will be from the Treasure Valley. Notorious cheapskates in civil cases. The jury pool is more outsiders and urban soccer moms who don't know/care about/like guns all that much, really - just because they're from Idaho doesn't make them RKBA defenders. And unless the audio or video is really bad for the cops, the mostly law-and-order, good Republican voters LIKE policemen because they keep the riff-raff out of their subdivisions, arrest drug dealers and wife beaters, and intervene to run off scary-looking or -acting people who have the audacity to be out in public...see where I'm going with this? Prayers for policemen are offered every Sunday in a whole lot of churches in the valley...churches the jury pool attends...ones with really, really big membership in the valley, if you get my drift. Do you think you will be as appealing to the white-bread urban Treasure Valley jurors as a nice policeman in the videos and in the courtroom? Do you think you can convice these jurors, who fill the local AM talk radio shows with cries for tort reform that a few minutes in handcuffs in the cold is wirth a gazillion dollars? You weren't injured, you didn't bleed...you were just embarrassed and inconvenienced a little bit, for a little while...what are you, some kind of oversensitive liberal ACLU type??? (I'm only playing devil's advocate here...easy, now...but you know someone will think it....) What's the price of Principle, to re-live the incident, get berated and insulted by the other side's lawyers, and be judged by a group of people you don't know, don't care about you at all, who by and large like policemen, who hold the key to your financial ruin in their hands, and can bankrupt you if six of them decide they don't like you...or dedide they like the cop better...or decide you are just a whiner...or who don't want to deal with AR-toting strangers in their neighborhood grocery store?

If you lose outright, you pay their fees. They will garnish your check and go after your nonexempt assets - in which case you'll have to file bankruptcy and lose most everything. What['s the price of principle?

If they offer a settlement before trial, and you don't take it, and the jury verdict for you is at or less than what they offered, if it's within a certain percentage of their offer, you're technically not the prevailing party, and will be ordered to pay their lawyers' (yes, they will have at least two) fees for the trial. Plan on them having spent 3-4 hours in preparation for every hour the trial takes. Oh, and it includes their staff's time, and all the other costs as well - exhibit preparation, photocopying, jury consultants, phone calls, faxes, research...you get the point. Got that much saved up just in case? What's the price of principle?

Yes, Garden City cops, without exception, are d*cks. It's been common knowledge for decades that they're not just d*cks, but corrupt d*cks. Apparently the people of Garden City like it that way, because they keep voting for the same people and party every election - and don't care if others don't like it. The way they see it, nobody is being forced to come to Garden City, and anyone who doesn't like it can stay away or move somewhere else. (Bet you've NEVER heard anyone express a "love it or leave it" mentality on this board before! HA!)

Bottom line: all the chest thumping about suing and 1983 suits is just that. Yes, the cops were wrong to detain you, handcuff you, and talk mean to you. No, you hadn't committed a crime and they should've left you alone. Understandably, you want to teach the d*ckhead cops you dealt with a lesson. You want to force things to change so nobody else wants to go through what you did. Noble principles all.

But what's the price of those principles? Do you want to dedicate your life to travelling to Idaho for the next few years to push this? Go ahead and roll the dice if you think it's worth the cost - I wish you well and hope you are successful.

There are other ways to get the word out and put some heat on them, ways that don't cost you a dime. Like this forum. Good on you for using it. Contact a news station and see if they're interested in telling your story - guns and gun control are hot topics right now. If they do, how do they handle the story? How does the public react to your story? If the news folks also interview the GCPD, or any other LEO, or the ordinary man on the street, how do they respond? Those would be free ways to measure how successful you might be in a lawsuit.

Best wishes to you either way, though - you do have my sympathy over this event.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Ummmmm St. John v. Alamogordo The system CAN work.

If all is taken at face value then there was definitely a violation of civil rights perpetrated upon the OP. Unlawful detainment, humiliation, et cetera. Fourth amendment violation of Terry which is well established and therefore no qualified immunity for individual officers. They can try to justify the seizure of weapons with "officer safety" but they have to first have a legitimate stop under Terry and there is no "firearms exception".

Not sure about the lieing about Fred Myer trespassing the OP, the cops are allowed to lie and deceive in many instances. This one might or might not be covered by one of their many "allowances" to "play unfairly".
 

DCR

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
162
Location
, ,
Never said he didn't have a potentially viable case, or that the system can't or doesn't work (sometimes)...just what to expect, and the undeniable risks one faces in this sort of litigation.
 
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