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Serviceman allowed to carry a handgun under age 21?

G

GJohnson

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Hello everyone, i am quite new to this site and I figured I would ask a question that has been bugging me for quite a while. I've looked around and so far I haven't seen a very "clear" answer. I am 18 years old. I am a Soldier in the United States Army, Ohio National Guard. I took my Oath of Enlistment on 06Dec2012. I completed Basic Combat Training with C Co. 795th Military Police Battalion in 2012.

That being said. I have read ORC 2923.211 a few times over now, but I does not give me a clear answer on the "carrying" aspect of owning a handgun under 21. Getting to the point, I simply want to know; 1. If I can legally open carry my weapon (handgun) in the state of OH. 2. If I qualify for receiving my Conceal Carry Permit. Thanks in advance. Hopefully I can finally get some answers about this!

-Gabe
 
skidmark

skidmark

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Are you asking abbout carying while on duty? Or are you wanting to know if the ONG can reach out and effect your civillian behavior?

Generally speaking, ORC 2923.211 merely repeats federal law that says you must be 21 to purchase a handgun. It does expand on the federal prohibition against purchasing from a FFL to cover all purchases. There is no discussion about possessing a handgun (that you aquired by means other than purchase).

You want to look at ORC 2923.21" Improperly furnishing firearms to a minor" to see the law on possession of a handgun under the age of 21.

There is excellent discussion of the issue here http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?87294-Open-Carrying-Under-21 .

stay safe.
 
G

GJohnson

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I may have been a little hard to understand. From what 2923.211 tells me, because I am a member of the Armed Services, I am able to purchase a handgun under 21. I am trying to figure out, if I can legally open carry it. And I am also trying to find out if because of 2923.211 allowing me to purchase a handgun under 21, does that mean I can apply for a CCL? Or is there no loop hole for that, do you just have to simply be 21 years old?

-Gabe
 
eye95

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I sell handguns to military members in OH. I run the gun counter at Wright-Pat.

Under no circumstances will I sell you a handgun unless you are 21. If I were to even put a handgun in your hand at the counter, I'd be violating Ohio law, so that just ain't gonna happen.

I know of no exemption from the law that prohibits others from putting a handgun in your hands that applies to your situation.

You didn't want to hear that, but that is the way that it is.
 
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Hareuhal

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Service members do not have ANY exemptions in regard to open carry, concealed carry or purchase of a weapon, regardless of age.

Of course, you are more than permitted to use any weapon the Army sees fit......while on duty only.

However, once you do turn 21, being in the military will allow you to bypass Ohio's requirement for the 12 hour Concealed Carry course, in nearly every county.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 
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G

GJohnson

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If That is the case I'm not quite sure how to interpret 2923.211 then. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.211


2923.211 Underage purchase of firearm or handgun.
(A) No person under eighteen years of age shall purchase or attempt to purchase a firearm.

(B) No person under twenty-one years of age shall purchase or attempt to purchase a handgun, provided that this division does not apply to the purchase or attempted purchase of a handgun by a person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age if either of the following apply:

(1) The person is a law enforcement officer who is properly appointed or employed as a law enforcement officer and has received firearms training approved by the Ohio peace officer training council or equivalent firearms training.

(2) The person is an active or reserve member of the armed services of the United States or the Ohio national guard, or was honorably discharged from military service in the active or reserve armed services of the United States or the Ohio national guard, and the person has received firearms training from the armed services or the national guard or equivalent firearms training.

(C) Whoever violates division (A) of this section is guilty of underage purchase of a firearm, a delinquent act that would be a felony of the fourth degree if it could be committed by an adult. Whoever violates division (B) of this section is guilty of underage purchase of a handgun, a misdemeanor of the second degree.
Effective Date: 01-01-2002; 2008 HB450 04-07-2009
 
R

RT48

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Unfortunately, when they passed HB 450 allowing an under 21 service member to purchase a handgun, they forgot to also modify ORC 2923.21 .


2923.21 Improperly furnishing firearms to minor.

(A) No person shall do any of the following:

(1) Sell any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(2) Subject to division (B) of this section, sell any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;

(3) Furnish any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age or, subject to division (B) of this section, furnish any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age, except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult;

(4) Sell or furnish a firearm to a person who is eighteen years of age or older if the seller or furnisher knows, or has reason to know, that the person is purchasing or receiving the firearm for the purpose of selling the firearm in violation of division (A)(1) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age or for the purpose of furnishing the firearm in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(5) Sell or furnish a handgun to a person who is twenty-one years of age or older if the seller or furnisher knows, or has reason to know, that the person is purchasing or receiving the handgun for the purpose of selling the handgun in violation of division (A)(2) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age or for the purpose of furnishing the handgun in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;

(6) Purchase or attempt to purchase any firearm with the intent to sell the firearm in violation of division (A)(1) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age or with the intent to furnish the firearm in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(7) Purchase or attempt to purchase any handgun with the intent to sell the handgun in violation of division (A)(2) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age or with the intent to furnish the handgun in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age.

(B) Divisions (A)(1) and (2) of this section do not apply to the sale or furnishing of a handgun to a person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age if the person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age is a law enforcement officer who is properly appointed or employed as a law enforcement officer and has received firearms training approved by the Ohio peace officer training council or equivalent firearms training.
(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of improperly furnishing firearms to a minor, a felony of the fifth degree.

Effective Date: 03-31-1997
Click to expand...

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.21
 
G

GJohnson

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Even if it was updated in 09'? Does 2923.21 necessarily cancel HB450 out? I guess the simple question is now, if I am not allowed to purchase a handgun from an FFL, am I allowed to "own" one? Is "gifting" allowed? For instance if good old, Dad wants to purchase a handgun and say give it to me is that breaking any law? To me the fact that 2923.21 wasn't updated to fit 2923.211 is ridiculous, plus it was updated in 2009 and .21 was set in 97'.? I appreciate all the responses so far by the way!
 
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H

Hareuhal

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GJohnson said:
Even if it was updated in 09'? Does 2923.21 necessarily cancel HB450 out? I guess the simple question is now, if I am not allowed to purchase a handgun from an FFL, am I allowed to "own" one? Is "gifting" allowed? For instance if good old, Dad wants to purchase a handgun and say give it to me is that breaking any law? To me the fact that 2923.21 wasn't updated to fit 2923.211 is ridiculous, plus it was updated in 2009 and .21 was set in 97'.? I appreciate all the responses so far by the way!
Click to expand...


As far as I know, gifting is not allowed.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 
eye95

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To be clear, gifting a handgun to someone under 21 amounts to "furnishing" that firearm and is illegal for the gifter. Gifting in general is legal.

There is no way in the State of Ohio to transfer a handgun legally to a person under 21. Remember that when a service member is given a firearm on base, he is not in the State of Ohio.
 
G

GJohnson

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I still don't understand how that can be when 2923.211 clearly states the following. I mean, am I reading something wrong or what?


2923.211 Underage purchase of firearm or handgun.


(A) No person under eighteen years of age shall purchase or attempt to purchase a firearm.

(B) No person under twenty-one years of age shall purchase or attempt to purchase a handgun, provided that this division does not apply to the purchase or attempted purchase of a handgun by a person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age if either of the following apply:

(1) The person is a law enforcement officer who is properly appointed or employed as a law enforcement officer and has received firearms training approved by the Ohio peace officer training council or equivalent firearms training.

(2) The person is an active or reserve member of the armed services of the United States or the Ohio national guard, or was honorably discharged from military service in the active or reserve armed services of the United States or the Ohio national guard, and the person has received firearms training from the armed services or the national guard or equivalent firearms training.



(C) Whoever violates division (A) of this section is guilty of underage purchase of a firearm, a delinquent act that would be a felony of the fourth degree if it could be committed by an adult. Whoever violates division (B) of this section is guilty of underage purchase of a handgun, a misdemeanor of the second degree.

Effective Date: 01-01-2002; 2008 HB450 04-07-2009
 
eye95

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Laws that aren't written at the same time often create interesting seeming conflicts. Even if you are allowed to attempt to purchase a handgun from me, I, by law, am forbidden from "furnishing" you with that handgun!

No one can give, sell, or even hand you a handgun. Period. Or else the person furnishing the firearm is breaking the law, even if you aren't.
 
G

GJohnson

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It would help if these ORC's and laws werent written by someone who favors the "old english" writing style haha. They seem to make this stuff too confusing.
 
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H

Hareuhal

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GJohnson said:
It would help if these ORC's and laws werent written by someone who favors the "old english" writing style haha. They seem to make this stuff too confusing.
Click to expand...


It takes some getting used to before you figure it out.

The only way you're getting a handgun would be if your father would be allowing you to carry it for EDUCATIONAL purposes only. And that is a very gray area that only one person I know of actually does with his young sons. Maybe MWSY will post.

In any case, don't think that would let you carry one, I am just covering all bases.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 
Suckerspawn

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eye95 said:
To be clear, gifting a handgun to someone under 21 amounts to "furnishing" that firearm and is illegal for the gifter. Gifting in general is legal.

There is no way in the State of Ohio to transfer a handgun legally to a person under 21. Remember that when a service member is given a firearm on base, he is not in the State of Ohio.
Click to expand...

Does the ORC apply, 'On Base' ?
 
eye95

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Yes, and no.

CHLs are no good on base. The military can put a gun in anybody's hands that they wish. I must follow Ohio and federal law when it comes to putting firearms and ammunition into someone's hands.

I guess the easiest way to look at it is that, if there is a conflict between federal law (including base regulations) and Ohio law, the most restrictive law or rule would prevail. IOW, make sure anything you do violates neither set of laws and rules.

Of course, the military command structure is free to ignore Ohio law when it chooses by asserting sovereignty over the base.


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<o>
 
H

Hareuhal

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eye95 said:
CHLs are no good on base.
Click to expand...

This is slightly false. Whether or not a base allows concealed carry permit holders to carry on base is entirely up to the installation Commander.

But generally speaking, very few allow it.


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eye95

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Considering that the poster is almost surely asking about Wright-Pat, the base in his immediate area, the CHL is no good on base.

At one point in time, it was true that commanders had that kind of discretion, it is either now gone or soon will be. In the wake of Ft Hood, the military began planning a unified and very restrictive policy for all installations. In any event, I have never been assigned to a base where any kind of non-duty carry was allowed at all.
 
H

Hareuhal

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eye95 said:
Considering that the poster is almost surely asking about Wright-Pat, the base in his immediate area, the CHL is no good on base.

At one point in time, it was true that commanders had that kind of discretion, it is either now gone or soon will be. In the wake of Ft Hood, the military began planning a unified and very restrictive policy for all installations. In any event, I have never been assigned to a base where any kind of non-duty carry was allowed at all.
Click to expand...

Does WPAFB station Army? I've never been there.

Anyways, currently, they still have the power to make that decision. I'm actually planning on bringing it up to my installation commander to request him to consider allowing them.
 
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