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Thread: Something I've noticed regarding CC vs OC supporters

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    Regular Member Lindfarms's Avatar
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    Question Something I've noticed regarding CC vs OC supporters

    I'm a Texan with a CHL who carries all the time. The first time I heard about OC possibly coming to Texas last legislation I started doing some real research on the subject and it got me very excited. To have the ability to OC or CC whichever I choose makes a great deal of sense to me. Most of the time I personally would conceal but if I'm on the family farm working and run to town, if I don't feel like wearing pants 2" too big, or if I just freaking feel like it I would open carry. I just want the option to do both and wouldn't judge anyone on which way they choose to carry. I see conceal carry guys jumping all over open carry guys on forums and in person. Open carry supporters hardly ever say anything bad about their counterparts.

    We all just want to exercise our freedom and have the ability to defend ourselves..... Why throw stones at the guy who chooses not to hide his gun because you choose to hide yours? I just don't get this mindset. Take that energy and go after the politicians trying to take your guns away from you!

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    Hear, Hear!!!

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    That is hitting the nail right square on the head!! How you carry is a personal choice (in most states and as it should be), but do carry whenever and where you can.

    I'm personally more comfortable open carrying, but if a man or woman is more comfortable concealing, then that is good for them.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Part of liberty is the ability to say "NO."

    No, I don't want to cover it up.
    No, I don't want to carry it openly.

    Those who are part of the OC community want their liberty to be recognized and your liberty is part of our liberty.

    So long as your choices cause us no harm, why should be dictate them to you?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindfarms View Post
    I'm a Texan with a CHL who carries all the time. The first time I heard about OC possibly coming to Texas last legislation I started doing some real research on the subject and it got me very excited. To have the ability to OC or CC whichever I choose makes a great deal of sense to me. Most of the time I personally would conceal but if I'm on the family farm working and run to town, if I don't feel like wearing pants 2" too big, or if I just freaking feel like it I would open carry. I just want the option to do both and wouldn't judge anyone on which way they choose to carry. I see conceal carry guys jumping all over open carry guys on forums and in person. Open carry supporters hardly ever say anything bad about their counterparts.

    We all just want to exercise our freedom and have the ability to defend ourselves..... Why throw stones at the guy who chooses not to hide his gun because you choose to hide yours? I just don't get this mindset. Take that energy and go after the politicians trying to take your guns away from you!
    I visit CC centric sites from time to time simply to "toss a skunk into the tent" so to speak. It is quite comical and theraputic, in a weird sort of way, to get CCers all worked up. Many CCers are not very liberty minded after all.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I'm on both sides too, some days I like to Open carry and some conceal only.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindfarms View Post
    I'm a Texan with a CHL who carries all the time. The first time I heard about OC possibly coming to Texas last legislation I started doing some real research on the subject and it got me very excited. To have the ability to OC or CC whichever I choose makes a great deal of sense to me. Most of the time I personally would conceal but if I'm on the family farm working and run to town, if I don't feel like wearing pants 2" too big, or if I just freaking feel like it I would open carry. I just want the option to do both and wouldn't judge anyone on which way they choose to carry. I see conceal carry guys jumping all over open carry guys on forums and in person. Open carry supporters hardly ever say anything bad about their counterparts.

    We all just want to exercise our freedom and have the ability to defend ourselves..... Why throw stones at the guy who chooses not to hide his gun because you choose to hide yours? I just don't get this mindset. Take that energy and go after the politicians trying to take your guns away from you!
    OMG, Thank you so much for being reasonable. I don't care how you carry, but so many CC only types are so critical of us OC types is insane. I've never seen a OC'er bash a CC'er, but a CC'er will bash us to death. They usually do it with no proof, by the way.
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    Regular Member Orion's Avatar
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    I agree with the majority of sentiments expressed here. How to carry is a very personal choice, whether OC or CC, but carry itself is the important thing. Personally I prefer to OC, but being in Michigan I tend towards CC in the wintertime. I also CC at family gatherings to keep the peace. I refuse to disarm, and what they don't know won't bother them.

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    Something I've noticed regarding CC vs OC supporters

    Carry is a right that has constitutional protection. Concealment is not so protected and is, therefore, subject to regulation by the State (or protection by its constitution), making it a privilege in most States.

    They are two separate acts. Thinking of them that way gives amazing clarity.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I want the freedom to do both without having to ask permission. Until that happens I will open carry, and probably continue to do so even if permission slips are outlawed.
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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Re: Something I've noticed regarding CC vs OC supporters

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Carry is a right that has constitutional protection. Concealment is not so protected and is, therefore, subject to regulation by the State (or protection by its constitution), making it a privilege in most States.

    They are two separate acts. Thinking of them that way gives amazing clarity.
    That may be true, but it's a weak argument that was apparently sold to and bought by the American Public.

    I have the freedom of speech, but the government regulations say I can only use wide-ruled, spiral bound notebooks with a yellow cover and can only print with a pen that doesn't have more than a 0.7mm tip.

    After all, it's the freedom that's protected, not the method I use to exercise that right.

    As ridiculous as my analogy is, one could use your (the government's) line of reasoning more appropriately in that context than somehow trying to justify any infringement on the Second Amendment which, unlike the other Amendments, explicitly contains the words, "Shall not be infringed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    That may be true, but it's a weak argument that was apparently sold to and bought by the American Public.

    I have the freedom of speech, but the government regulations say I can only use wide-ruled, spiral bound notebooks with a yellow cover and can only print with a pen that doesn't have more than a 0.7mm tip.

    After all, it's the freedom that's protected, not the method I use to exercise that right.

    As ridiculous as my analogy is, one could use your (the government's) line of reasoning more appropriately in that context than somehow trying to justify any infringement on the Second Amendment which, unlike the other Amendments, explicitly contains the words, "Shall not be infringed."
    Who cares if the argument is weak?? Is it valid? Yes, it is.

    The act of concealment is separate from the act of carry, is not necessary to exercise the Right of Carry, and does not, in any significant way, ease or make more difficult the exercise of the Right. Your example greatly increases the difficulty of exercising the Right to Write and so is a faulty analogy.

    Again, it is not the weakness or the strength of an argument. It is its validity that matters. And I would argue that a valid argument is the strongest argument.

    Once again, folks, focus like a laser on the target! Our goal is to normalize carry. Saying carry alone is not good enough, that concealment must be respected too is taking that laser dot off the target. Get focused.

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Who cares if the argument is weak??
    I do. You should, too, I would think. I'm not a fan of watching my rights erode under the guise of regulation for the greater good.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The act of concealment is separate from the act of carry, is not necessary to exercise the Right of Carry, and does not, in any significant way, ease or make more difficult the exercise of the Right.
    I'm not sure how you're arriving at that conclusion. Having to continually worry that the manner in which you choose to arm yourself may or may not be considered a violation of law certainly does make more difficult the exercise of that Right.

    Living in a colder climate state, for example, a winter jacket easily conceals an otherwise openly carried firearm. Are there alternatives? Sure. But how many hoops should one have to jump through in order to "legally" exercise a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Once again, folks, focus like a laser on the target! Our goal is to normalize carry. Saying carry alone is not good enough, that concealment must be respected too is taking that laser dot off the target. Get focused.
    In this context, I agree with your overall point. If our sole goal was to normalize the open carry of firearms, you'd be spot on. But if the premise of our argument is that the Right is Natural, recognized and protected by the Constitution, that argument needs to be taken to its logical conclusion, which would include the method in which one chooses to exercise that Right - be it openly or concealed.

    Let me ask this: For whose good did the States start making the concealed carry of a firearm (or weapon) a "privilege" rather than a "right"? Who benefited from that?

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    The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is not a natural (God-given) right. That God-given (natural) right is the right to self-defense. The RKBA is an enumerated right. You would do well to learn the difference.

    Oh, and your misrepresentation of my quote to make it easier to refute is beneath contempt.

    Here is what you should have quoted, including the bolded part, if you meant to be honest about what I said:

    Who cares if the argument is weak?? Is it valid? Yes, it is.
    Moving on. I prefer to discuss with folks who will be honest about it.

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is not a natural (God-given) right. That God-given (natural) right is the right to self-defense. The RKBA is an enumerated right. You would do well to learn the difference.

    Oh, and your misrepresentation of my quote to make it easier to refute is beneath contempt.

    Here is what you should have quoted, including the bolded part, if you meant to be honest about what I said:

    Moving on. I prefer to discuss with folks who will be honest about it.
    You are so terribly sensitive when people don't slurp up every bit of opinion you put out there as gospel truth, aren't you?

    First, I didn't misrepresent your question by any stretch. You see, you asked a question, which I answered. So feel all the contempt you will - I answered a question you asked, without misrepresentation. I opted to ignore the follow-up question because it's irrelevant. Laws are valid by definition - that doesn't make them right.

    Your "moving on" mentality is old and tired and seems to be your go-to crutch any time someone doesn't fawn over every word that you choose to write.

    It's extraordinarily telling that those that challenge your statements are "beneath contempt" or not worthy of your time or consideration, and that you continually resort to petty accusations and name-calling before adding someone to your infamous ignore list.

    With such a high opinion of yourself, I'd think you'd enjoy the opportunity to school us ignorant, lowly folk.

    Also telling is the way you personalized this so much, that you've lost the ability to address any of the points I raised or questions I asked of you. But that's fine: I don't have the time or patience for obstinate people, either.

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    Re: Something I've noticed regarding CC vs OC supporters

    Other than at my job (I'm a security guard) CC is the only way I carry. I used to be one of those who demonized open carry. Not, it doesn't really matter to me anymore. Just because CC is what is best for me doesn't make it the best for everyone. Whether someone wants to CC, OC, small of back carry, or duct tape their gun to their forehead, it makes no difference to me. Different people have different preferences.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    You are so terribly sensitive when people don't slurp up every bit of opinion you put out there as gospel truth, aren't you?

    First, I didn't misrepresent your question by any stretch. You see, you asked a question, which I answered. So feel all the contempt you will - I answered a question you asked, without misrepresentation. I opted to ignore the follow-up question because it's irrelevant. Laws are valid by definition - that doesn't make them right.

    Your "moving on" mentality is old and tired and seems to be your go-to crutch any time someone doesn't fawn over every word that you choose to write.

    It's extraordinarily telling that those that challenge your statements are "beneath contempt" or not worthy of your time or consideration, and that you continually resort to petty accusations and name-calling before adding someone to your infamous ignore list.

    With such a high opinion of yourself, I'd think you'd enjoy the opportunity to school us ignorant, lowly folk.

    Also telling is the way you personalized this so much, that you've lost the ability to address any of the points I raised or questions I asked of you. But that's fine: I don't have the time or patience for obstinate people, either.
    This is a normal encounter with him.
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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    One thing I've noticed in my own behavior since going to OC a few months back is that I tend to be exceedingly more cordial to people I come into contact with. If I'm not in a hurry and time allows me the opportunity to talk with people when they question my carrying, the interactions go very well. I hadn't planned on being an ambassador for the bearing of arms in the public arena yet it seems to be a result of OCing. I was simply seeking a more physically comfortable method of carrying. The CC guys I've talked to with have all stated to me that they were going to try OC. Haven't had personal, negative conversations with CC'rs other than on forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I visit CC centric sites from time to time simply to "toss a skunk into the tent" so to speak. It is quite comical and theraputic, in a weird sort of way, to get CCers all worked up. Many CCers are not very liberty minded after all.
    Thats the dang truth!! I got kicked off a cc forum one time with a very heated debate.Some of those people just dont get it.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Just to balance; BGs hide their guns, good guys wear their 's for the whole world to see

    if you see a gun in a holster, you can just about bet that person is a good guy
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    We are not impressed with those who demean and belittle, anonymously, on the Interwebs and yet show no such courage when faced with our "opponent" on the "field of battle."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    In addition, I have noticed what seems to be a "we are better than you" mentality from the CC'ers. An arrogance that they think themselves the only possesors of the true common sense and moral high ground to spout their case. Many of their arguments against OC are the same arrguments the anti gunners use against guns in geneeral. Sadly, right after Oklahoma became na OC state, one of the training academies participated with a local news organization to film a "fake" gun grab to show how easy it would be to take an OC'ers gun. They had the OC'er just standing with his arms folded, gun exposed, and he didn't react to the presence of a threat until the threat actually had his hand on the grip of the weapon. People I had really respected lost all credibility with that one act.

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Carry is a right that has constitutional protection. Concealment is not so protected and is, therefore, subject to regulation by the State (or protection by its constitution), making it a privilege in most States.

    They are two separate acts. Thinking of them that way gives amazing clarity.


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    Why isn't concealment protected? Regulating the manner in which one bears (e.g., carries) an arm (such as saying that it may not be concealed unless one has a permission slip) is, by definition, an infringement.

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Who cares if the argument is weak?? Is it valid? Yes, it is.

    The act of concealment is separate from the act of carry, is not necessary to exercise the Right of Carry, and does not, in any significant way, ease or make more difficult the exercise of the Right. Your example greatly increases the difficulty of exercising the Right to Write and so is a faulty analogy.

    Again, it is not the weakness or the strength of an argument. It is its validity that matters. And I would argue that a valid argument is the strongest argument.

    Once again, folks, focus like a laser on the target! Our goal is to normalize carry. Saying carry alone is not good enough, that concealment must be respected too is taking that laser dot off the target. Get focused.
    Your position is arbitrary, as one could just as easily take the position that carry with concealment is the default, no-permit-needed case, and that open carry is a privilege. How did you go about determining that the word "bear" in the SA applies specifically to open carry, and that concealed carry falls outside of the scope of "bear" in that context?

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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Why isn't concealment protected? Regulating the manner in which one bears (e.g., carries) an arm (such as saying that it may not be concealed unless one has a permission slip) is, by definition, an infringement.
    The 2A is an implementation of the God-given (or natural, if you prefer) right to defend oneself. Carry is kind of necessary to the defense. Putting fabric over the carried firearm is not. Laws that prohibit, limit, or license concealment do not prevent carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Your position is arbitrary, as one could just as easily take the position that carry with concealment is the default, no-permit-needed case, and that open carry is a privilege. How did you go about determining that the word "bear" in the SA applies specifically to open carry, and that concealed carry falls outside of the scope of "bear" in that context?
    Carry is the default. Covering the carried firearm is an attendant act not necessary to the carry.

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