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Thread: Restaurant carry legislation

  1. #1
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    Restaurant carry legislation

    Does anyone know if the proposed legislation is targeted specifically at CHP holders or whether open carriers would also be permitted to carry in restaurants? If they are adding a new statute then I'm guessing OC will be left out. What they really need to do is just strike the carry prohibition altogether instead of adding a new statute. We need to be erasing silly laws, not writing new laws on top of them.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/...staurants.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockaholic View Post
    Does anyone know if the proposed legislation is targeted specifically at CHP holders or whether open carriers would also be permitted to carry in restaurants? If they are adding a new statute then I'm guessing OC will be left out. What they really need to do is just strike the carry prohibition altogether instead of adding a new statute. We need to be erasing silly laws, not writing new laws on top of them.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/...staurants.html
    The proposed bill doesn't state mode of carry; however, from my understanding it does limit carry to CHP holders.
    IANAL

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Bill Text

    http://www.ncleg.net/sessions/2013/b...tml/h17v0.html

    Short Title: Gun Permits/Restaurants & Confidentiality. (Public)
    Sponsors: Representatives Burr, Hager, Hollo, and J. Bell (Primary Sponsors).
    Referred to:


    A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
    AN ACT TO ALLOW PERSONS WITH CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS TO POSSESS HANDGUNS IN RESTAURANTS AND EATING ESTABLISHMENTS IF NOT PROHIBITED BY THE POSTING OF A NOTICE PROHIBITING POSSESSION ON THE PREMISES AND TO PROVIDE FOR THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF INFORMATION REGARDING CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS AND PISTOL PURCHASE PERMITS.
    The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:
    SECTION 1. G.S. 14‑269.3(b) is amended by adding a new subdivision to read:
    "(5) A person on the premises of an eating establishment as defined in G.S. 18B‑1000(2) or a restaurant as defined in G.S. 18B‑1000(6), provided the person has a valid concealed handgun permit under Article 54B of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on the premises of an eating establishment or a restaurant where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."
    SECTION 2. G.S. 14‑415.17 reads as rewritten:
    " 14‑415.17. Permit; sheriff to retain and make available to law enforcement agencies a list of permittees.permittees; confidentiality of list and permit application information; availability to law enforcement agencies.
    (a) The permit shall be in a certificate form, as prescribed by the Administrative Office of the Courts, that is approximately the size of a North Carolina drivers license. It shall bear the signature, name, address, date of birth, and the drivers license identification number used in applying for the permit.
    (b) The sheriff shall maintain a listing, including the identifying information, of those persons who are issued a permit. The permit information shall be available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies. Within five days of the date a permit is issued, the sheriff shall send a copy of the permit to the State Bureau of Investigation. The State Bureau of Investigation shall make this information available to law enforcement officers and clerks of court on a statewide system.
    (c) Except as provided otherwise by this subsection, the list of permit holders and the information collected by the sheriff to process an application for a permit are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132‑1. The sheriff shall make the list of permit holders and the permit information available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies. The State Bureau of Investigation shall make the list of permit holders and the information collected by the sheriff to process an application for a permit available to law enforcement officers on a statewide system."
    SECTION 3. G.S. 14‑405 reads as rewritten:
    " 14‑405. Record of permits kept by sheriff. sheriff; confidentiality of permit information.
    (a) The sheriff shall keep a book, to be provided by the board of commissioners of each county, in which he shall keep a record of all licenses or permits issued under this article, including the name, date, place of residence, age, former place of residence, etc., of each such person, firm, or corporation to whom or which a license or permit is issued.
    (b) The records maintained by the sheriff pursuant to this section are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132‑1; provided, however, that the sheriff shall make the records available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies."
    SECTION 4. G.S. 14‑406 reads as rewritten:
    " 14‑406. Dealer to keep record of sales. sales; confidentiality of records.
    (a) Every dealer in pistols and other weapons mentioned in this Article shall keep an accurate record of all sales thereof, including the name, place of residence, date of sale, etc., of each person, firm, or corporation to whom or which such sales are made, which record shall be open to the inspection of any duly constituted State, county or police officer, within this State.made. The records maintained by a dealer pursuant to this section are confidential and are not a public record under G.S. 132‑1; provided, however, that the dealer shall make the records available upon request to all State and local law enforcement agencies.
    (b) Repealed by Session Laws 2011‑56, s. 3, effective April 28, 2011."
    SECTION 5. This act becomes effective December 1, 2013.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    I don't like the elitist approach (OK for CC but not for OC). I do like the addition of the confidentiality clauses. This would prevent a repeat of news media posting a search engine to locate CHP holders.

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    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    I have a feeling we have a great chance of getting it passed this time. As for it being only CC, go get a CHP and be done with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    I have a feeling we have a great chance of getting it passed this time. As for it being only CC, go get a CHP and be done with it.
    Exactly. It doesn't say mode of carry, just that you must a CHP to have a gun in a restaurant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    I have a feeling we have a great chance of getting it passed this time. As for it being only CC, go get a CHP and be done with it.
    This is exactly the mindset that just chaps my backside. There is absolutely no rationale that I should be required to buy a permission slip to obtain the same "priviledge" as those who CC; conversely I don't think that those who CC should be held to a different standard than those of us who OC (eg. blood alcohol amount).
    This, in spite of my appreciation that progress is being made in recognizing the rights of we who pursue life as lawfully armed persons.
    Last edited by bc.cruiser; 01-31-2013 at 08:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    remember back in the old days when it was good for you to wear your gun where everyone could see it, and it was a dirty thing to hide your gun
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFOVER View Post
    I have a feeling we have a great chance of getting it passed this time. As for it being only CC, go get a CHP and be done with it.
    Seeing this a pro opencarry website that primarily promotes the practice of "Open carry" I kindly disagree with whom I just quoted. Open carry or CC it should not matter. It's the same damn thing on both sides of the fence. Some find it more convenient to hide it while others prefer to have it openly.

    Now for the bill that's great news. Looking forward to it's outcome.

  10. #10
    Regular Member J-SiN's Avatar
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    I agree open or concealed shout NOT matter
    but then again we live in land of the permits and permissions and fees

    lets keep our fingers crossed on it

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    Lets get some type of restaurant carry on the books. Small steps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    Lets get some type of restaurant carry on the books. Small steps.
    Agreed - remove the total ban. then argue that OC/CC is irrelevent. Probably have a better chance of getting it through that way, even if we all agree that we shouldn't have been put in this position in the first place.

    While permitted carry is not ideal, it is better than nothing, just gotta keep pushing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 180shabah View Post
    Agreed - remove the total ban. then argue that OC/CC is irrelevent. Probably have a better chance of getting it through that way, even if we all agree that we shouldn't have been put in this position in the first place.

    While permitted carry is not ideal, it is better than nothing, just gotta keep pushing...
    I agree. Lets get this through first, then try and get it changed for OC later.

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    Am I missing something? OC or CC is permitted in any eating establishment, already, unless posted that it is not allowed or if it serves alcohol. There was no mention of alcohol which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the whole restaurant carry problem.
    Last edited by 94 at Large; 02-01-2013 at 03:01 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94 at Large View Post
    Am I missing something? OC or CC is permitted in any eating establishment, already, unless posted that it is not allowed or if it serves alcohol. There was no mention of alcohol which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the whole restaurant carry problem.
    The legislation is modifying the following:

    14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.(b) This section shall not apply to the following:(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;(3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
    and will add:

    (5) A person on the premises of an eating establishment as defined in G.S. 18B‑1000(2) or a restaurant as defined in G.S. 18B‑1000(6), provided the person has a valid concealed handgun permit under Article 54B of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on the premises of an eating establishment or a restaurant where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c).
    Last edited by carolina guy; 02-01-2013 at 03:12 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Now...if we could just get them to strike 14‑269.3in its entirety...that would be cause for

    Although, reading 18B‑1000. Definitions concerning establishments.

    (2) Eating establishment. – An establishment engaged in the business of regularly and customarily selling food, primarily to be eaten on the premises. Eating establishments shall include businesses that are referred to as restaurants, cafeterias, or cafes, but that do not qualify under subdivision (6). Eating establishments shall also include lunchstands, grills, snack bars, fast‑food businesses, and other establishments, such as drugstores, which have a lunch counter or other section where food is sold to be eaten on the premises.
    This would make me think that this could easily include a movie theater since they have a counter that sells food to be generally eaten on the premises. Just a thought...
    Last edited by carolina guy; 02-01-2013 at 03:37 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Now...if we could just get them to strike 14‑269.3in its entirety...that would be cause for

    Although, reading 18B‑1000. Definitions concerning establishments.



    This would make me think that this could easily include a movie theater since they have a counter that sells food to be generally eaten on the premises.

    Although
    Totally agree. Thanks for the quick response and clarification cg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABEACHFAN View Post
    I agree. Lets get this through first, then try and get it changed for OC later.
    If what I read is correct, OC would be covered, you just have to have a CHP. You can OC with CHP. I know, there should be no need for the CHP to open carry.
    Last edited by gary737; 02-01-2013 at 03:29 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    If what I read is correct, OC would be covered, you just have to have a CHP. You can OC with CHP. I know, there should be no need for the CHP to open carry.
    That would be my unlawyerly opinion...which is worth exactly what you paid for it.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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