Hb 1588

Hearing Feb 13th, 2013 8am

I will be there to testify against this bill as a private seller/person in the state of Washington.

If you can not make it please post hear precise and concise (1 paragraph's) reasons why this bill will not be effective.

nick

http://www.examiner.com/article/was...te-firearm-sales-dangerously-close-to-passing

Wash. state bill to end private firearm sales dangerously close to passing said:

HB 1588 is the legislation that would end private firearm sales in Washington state. The bill would require all people privately selling firearms to friends or family to pay a $20 fee to have a gun dealer or law enforcement agency process the request with absolutely no guarantee of timely processing either.

Concealed Pistol License (CPL) holders who are exempt from having to undergo background checks when purchasing from a licensed dealer would now be required to pay the fee and wait as well despite going through the extensive FBI check to obtain the CPL in the first place.

The bill, written by Representatives Jamie Pederson (D), has picked up 36 sponsors including Republican Mike Hope from the 44th district. The bill is scheduled for a hearing in front of the House Judiciary Committee this Wednesday, February 13 at 8 a.m. Four of the bill's sponsors are currently committee members.

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Tax on Rights!

Yet another tax on rights protected by the Constitution... Can you imagine if the Legislators imposed a $20 background check on voters to ensure they were eligible to vote? With all of the voter fraud going on these days, this seems as appropriate as mandating background checks on private firearms transfers. How about a mandated life sentence or death penalty for commiting a felony with a weapon? This would solve the gun violence real quick... I suppose Progressive legislators only want to crack down on law-abiding citizens and not criminals...

Well,,,

gogodawgs said:

I will be there to testify against this bill as a private seller/person in the state of Washington.

If you can not make it please post here precise and concise (1 paragraph's) reasons why this bill will not be effective.

nick

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Effective enforcement would require,,,
Suspend the 4th amendment!!!
Require cops to inspect the "Registration Card", that must be carried, WITH any gun, that is carried, anywhere, anytime, by anyone!
ALL Guns would REQUIRE this card,,, whether carried or just kept in the home, which would also subject to search..

Whitney said:

Just making an observation that while gunsmiths are a type 1 FFL. If you have a type 1 FFL you are exempt from NICS check of private sales. USC 18 has some vague language regarding what is considered "conducting business", suffice to say if you are a part time weekend smith you could be at risk.

If you are a type 03 FFL and are engaged in transactions with another 03 FFL this bill will punish you for it. FFL type 03 is licensed by the Fed to engage in commerce but this bill makes it unlawful. How about internet sales to 03 FFL's which is also perfectly legal. For all the collectors out there, B.O.H.I.C.A. I do not think it is really enforceable, rather it creates a system that promotes disregard.

Then there is the whole privacy issue and what to do with the state generated permission slip after the block is checked.

What happens to my permission slip if NICS returns anything other that "proceed with sale" ?

So now I am thinking I should go get my 01 FFL I can make all the private sales I want with no NICS check.
That is in fact what the bill says.

This bill is supposed to be targeting "certain people", such as felons, minors, and involuntarily committed persons.
I'll buy you a steak dinner if you can convince me background checks of private sales (execept 01 FFL's) prevent sales to those "certain people".



~Whitney

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OK, for those of us over 50. What does B.O.H.I.C.A. stand for?

Bill45 said:

OK, for those of us over 50. What does B.O.H.I.C.A. stand for?

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Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

Not sure why anybody over 50 would not know it. Must be that sheltered life you used to lead.

stay safe.

B.O.H.I.C.A.
It took me longer to type out the acronym than if I typed in the whole phrase.

Never heard it used before, neither has anyone I know. But then acronyms are something I rarely use.

I only found out what FUBAR ment after watching SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.

I will go back in my cave now.

well I sold out my principals, with how the government has been treating my right to bear arms lately I filed for both this year and last year's taxes

500 dollar check on the way baby!


once the IRS confirms my returns, which should be before wensday I'm heading down to this committee thing in person (however money for me is tight so until I have that confirmation I can't say for certain I'll come)

But If I do, I will come down, and I will sign up to speak, I'm drawing up written comments as we speak... and I would like it if someone would kindly take the time to look over what I right too....

nearly all the firearms I own have been obtained as gifts and private sales, if I ever have children I want the ability to give them firearms as gifts too.
I'm drawing my line in the sand here, Washington has a near-perfect firearms law with only a few blemishes, and I will not sit quietly while they try to make it more restrictive. I've already emailed my reps, I stopped in person at their offices on Friday, and I'm drafting emails to members of the Judiciary committee. This law must defeated, killed in house committee would be better, State Senator Pam Roach has promised she will kill the bill in senate committee, but let's try to not make that nessecary.

Most folks don't "dot" acronyms...

BOHICA
TARFU
SNAFU
FUBAR
etc...

Damiansar-15 said:

Yet another tax on rights protected by the Constitution...

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! A man seeing through the BS to the root of the issue.

gogodawgs said:

I will be there to testify against this bill as a private seller/person in the state of Washington.

If you can not make it please post hear precise and concise (1 paragraph's) reasons why this bill will not be effective.

nick

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Nick,

Thanks for going down. I will not be able to make it unfortunately. Represent us well!

skidmark said:

Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

Not sure why anybody over 50 would not know it. Must be that sheltered life you used to lead.

stay safe.

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There is a large and growing membership in the BOHICAN tribe.....just how they want it.

Beretta92FSLady said:

They are part of the State, they would be exempt from it.--gun buybacks ought to be a no questions asked.

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If the Seattle city government were part of the state government then state preemption would not necessarily apply to them.

Bill45 said:

OK, for those of us over 50. What does B.O.H.I.C.A. stand for?

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skidmark said:

Not sure why anybody over 50 would not know it. Must be that sheltered life you used to lead.

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You'd almost have to be over 50 to have encountered the original usage of it, since it's Vietnam-era military slang. Anyone old enough to be drafted as of the end of the war would be at least 55 today.

H b 1588

I wrote to my respective senators and got this back







"Thank you Clay for your email. I want you to know that I support the rights of law abiding citizens to own and bear arms. As an emergency medicine doctor that has seen the effect of gun violence on so many, I have to believe that there is something that can be done. I support a reasonable balanced approach and will evaluate each bill as it progresses to the senate floor to ensure that it does not infringe upon the rights of legal gun owners.

Thank you for your email and please keep in touch as these bills progress through the system. Look forward to working through the issue together. Thanks again,
Nathan"

Nathaniel Schlicher, MD, JD
Senator for the 26th District


In other words DWMFT (don't waste my friggin time)

Just for fun and edification:

NRA = Initialism, because you say the letters and can not pronounce it as a word.
BOHICA = Acronymn, because you can pronounce it and say it as a word.
Mon = Truncation (Shortened version of Monday).

All of these are abbreviations.

Unfortunately due to unexpected family issues that came up, I probably Won't be going to Olympia tommorow.

I'll shoot for any Senate committees if a senate bill is referred.

Nick, if your offer there is still up, All I was going to say is that "According to the ATF, 47% of criminal weapons are obtained through straw purchase sales, the proposed legislation does nothing for straw sales as straw sales are already illegal. Private citizens selling weapons amonst themselves is much different then people who buy firearms (and undergo a background check) with the purpose of funneling them to people whom they already know are criminals and not able to buy themselves. This legislation is unlikely to make any statistical difference in criminal possession of firearms while hampering the ability of law abiding citizens to give firearms as presents or sell their personal collections."

If you have room to say that, that is a point I was hoping to share.

EMNofSeattle said:

Unfortunately due to unexpected family issues that came up, I probably Won't be going to Olympia tommorow.

I'll shoot for any Senate committees if a senate bill is referred.

Nick, if your offer there is still up, All I was going to say is that "According to the ATF, 47% of criminal weapons are obtained through straw purchase sales, the proposed legislation does nothing for straw sales as straw sales are already illegal. Private citizens selling weapons amonst themselves is much different then people who buy firearms (and undergo a background check) with the purpose of funneling them to people whom they already know are criminals and not able to buy themselves. This legislation is unlikely to make any statistical difference in criminal possession of firearms while hampering the ability of law abiding citizens to give firearms as presents or sell their personal collections."

If you have room to say that, that is a point I was hoping to share.

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Thanks.

I will be there as well.

Both of my reps, Rodne and Magendaz are against this, Rodne actually sits on this committee so I am hoping he can do something about this.

The main points I'll go over:
-this will not dent the "weapons black market" for criminals
-this is a tax on firearms owners wanting to give a gift (the law is very vague on transfers vs sales/purchases and what they mean)
-by the same logic as above this is a death tax on estate guns for family member or those bequeathed.

For anyone who wants to go:
Judiciary - 02/13/13 8:00 am
Full Committee
House Hearing Rm A
John L. O'Brien Building
Olympia, WA Public Hearing:
HB 1147 - Modifying first degree unlawful possession of a firearm provisions.
HB 1612 - Concerning information on firearm offenders.
HB 1588 - Requiring universal background checks for firearms transfers.
HB 1676 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.

Get there early, I just spoke with Kate in Rep. Rodne's office, she said she expects the hearing to be packed and if you don't get there early and sign up you will probably not get to speak if you try to slide in right at 8.

I'll be there around 7.

Got stuck in heavy traffic near Lakewood and Fort Lewis, got there too late, I see that Mike Hope speaking right now.

I managed to watch the hearing so here are the takeaways:

First, at the last second a substitute bill was submitted so the sponsors were trying to play "gotcha" with all the people opposed, still didn't work though.

Here are the main points for everyone to remind their reps and sens about:

-this would still create "registration" and a "database" because of dealers involvement and their time with weapons while doing the checks
-several gunshop owners/managers testified that no shop anywhere in WA will do this for $20 or under, and since the law does not compel them to do it then they will all choose not to do it, and law enforcement is forbidden from doing it, so basically this will effectively stop ALL private firearm commerce except for....
-...no one carries a copy machine in their back pocket to make copies of people's CPLs! This idea is stupid and I seriously doubt pictures taken by a smartphone will satisfy the anti-gun judges out there.
-gun shows that don't last more than 3 days (all of them) will be screwed by this.

Call up your reps and as long as this is in committee call up all the committee reps even if they aren't yours, and let them know!

Just got back from the hearing. Due to the popularity of 1588 I was shut out of sharing my testimony to the committee, although I did submit it in written form. Much to many of our surprise this morning a substitute bill (PSHB 1588) was put forth that we did not get a chance to read ahead of time. In essence the substitute bill give's CPL's holders a "loop-hole" in selling their firearms privately. The PSHB 1588 also removes any paperwork (i.e. registration/data base) requirements to be saved. This is an interesting development, but still does not warrant support of a bill that is supposed to provide "so-called" "universal" felonious background checks.

(2)(a) No unlicensed person may sell a firearm to another unlicensed person unless (ii) the purchaser produces a valid concealed pistol license issued under RCW 9.41.070.

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Rep. Hope (R-44) (Seattle PD) continued to make false statements that 40% of felons get their guns from private sales. He cites this report (HERE) as his citation. Note that the report shows felons get 39.6 of their firearms through "friends or family", which is technically a 'private' transaction. But Rep. Hope is intellectually dishonest (i.e. Liar, Liar pants on fire) if he thinks for one second that a felon like Maurice Clemmons would of undergone a background check when he got his guns from his friends and family. Or he is an outright liar if he believes that Ja'Mari Alexander Jones (Tuba Man killer, Bellevue night club shooter) would of undergone a background check when he got his gun for the Bellevue shooting from friends and associates. Shall I go one about where felons really get their firearms from? Certainly not from private sales. Every manner in which felons get their firearms from is ALREADY illegal.