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Thread: Wis Indian Resv

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    Wis Indian Resv

    Any thing that is needed to know about traveling thru the Indian Resv in WI while carring? A friend from MI will be traveling thru the State on a mc.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Each Indian nation is its own sovereign nation, so you'd have to check with each one of them to find out if you can carry or even transport.
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Each Indian nation is its own sovereign nation, so you'd have to check with each one of them to find out if you can carry or even transport.
    I read somewhere that you're OK as long as you're on a state road.
    I live next door to Menominee County, which is all Reservation land, and I pass thru there quite a bit.


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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    As long as s/he stays on the road (local, county, state, federal), there's no problem.
    Go onto Indian land, problem.
    It's kinda like a "GF"SZ - unmarked, & if you're caught it can be trouble.
    Each nation sets & enforces its own laws.
    I don't even think that the FOPA transport provision is effective there.

    It'd be nice if people with contacts in the various tribes could get a definitive answer from someone who can speak for the tribe. Even if it's just "you can stop for gas or lunch, but have to have it unloaded & encased if you come any further in".
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    Spent a week on the LCO Res, by Hayward this summer. I had heard different stories about how you could, or couldn't carry. I called the DNR looking for awnsers, they gave me the number to the Res council, and ended up talking to the cheif. He told me that all of the normal WI laws applied, that there were no restrictions on non tribal members, that the only differences were that the tribal members were able to do more as far as hunting, and fishing. He told me to carry, as I normally would.

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    I personally know the Chief of LCO police dept. Worked with him he is a former county deputy and a good guy.
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    Don't they still have to abide by federal laws and state anyway? now they may have their own local police and laws for the tribe on top of the federal and state laws.

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    Driving on public roads is fine throughout the state.

    In Lac Du Flambeau, You are not to even posses a firearm in/on "Tribal Property" Now the next question is "What exactly is tribal property?" I would start with anything clearly marked as a tribal road, those are typically marked with a green sign, a picture of a stone arrowhead, and a number that identifies the road. Being on casino property is a good guess too.

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    Unless the road was built with out gas tax dollars highly doughtful and totally tribal funds it is a public road.

    Who maintain thems most likely the local township and not the tribe.
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    The tribal roads I am speaking of are NOT paved, they are dirt roads through the woods, not something you'd want to drive in anything but a 4WD vehicle.

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    Most likley not town roads then. One would have to know the who the land is owned by. In side reservation bountries there is land owned by the tribe own by townships,county,state, federal goverment and private persons some control by the tribe some not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Each Indian nation is its own sovereign nation, so you'd have to check with each one of them to find out if you can carry or even transport.
    This Internet 'wisdom' will never, ever die, regardless of how much correct information is presented - sort of like the BS that Game Wardens can just walk into your house whenever they like.

    Indian Tribes do not have jurisdiction over non-Indians. This was settled in a US Supreme Court ruling way back in 1978,
    Oliphant v. Suquamish Tribe, 435 US 191 - Supreme Court 1978

    Now whether Federal or state criminal law applies on tribal lands depends entirely on whether the state of Wisconsin (and any other state) assumed criminal jurisdiction as permitted under 25 USC 1321 upon agreement with the tribe. But tribal laws definitely do no apply to non-Indians!


    ETA: From US DOJ website:
    Crimes occurring on the Menominee Indian Reservation (MIR) are primarily governed by federal(1) and tribal(2) law. Crimes occurring on the lands of the other four tribes are governed by state criminal jurisdiction, pursuant to Public Law 280 (PL-280).
    (1) For non-Indians
    (2) For Indians



    ETA2: In accordance with 28 USC 1360, Wisconsin was mandated by the Federal government to assume jurisdiction over all Civil matters on Indian land, whether Indian or non-Indian individuals.


    TL;DR
    State laws governs here:
    Oneida Tribe of Wisconsin
    Stockbridge-Munsee Band of Mohican Indians
    Sokoagon Chippewa Community-Mole Lake Band
    Forest County Potawatomi

    Federal laws govern on the Menominee Indian Reservation

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    This Internet 'wisdom' will never, ever die, regardless of how much correct information is presented - sort of like the BS that Game Wardens can just walk into your house whenever they like.

    Indian Tribes do not have jurisdiction over non-Indians. This was settled in a US Supreme Court ruling way back in 1978,
    Oliphant v. Suquamish Tribe, 435 US 191 - Supreme Court 1978

    Now whether Federal or state criminal law applies on tribal lands depends entirely on whether the state of Wisconsin (and any other state) assumed criminal jurisdiction as permitted under 25 USC 1321 upon agreement with the tribe. But tribal laws definitely do no apply to non-Indians!


    ETA: From US DOJ website:
    Crimes occurring on the Menominee Indian Reservation (MIR) are primarily governed by federal(1) and tribal(2) law. Crimes occurring on the lands of the other four tribes are governed by state criminal jurisdiction, pursuant to Public Law 280 (PL-280).
    (1) For non-Indians
    (2) For Indians



    ETA2: In accordance with 28 USC 1360, Wisconsin was mandated by the Federal government to assume jurisdiction over all Civil matters on Indian land, whether Indian or non-Indian individuals.


    TL;DR
    State laws governs here:
    Oneida Tribe of Wisconsin
    Stockbridge-Munsee Band of Mohican Indians
    Sokoagon Chippewa Community-Mole Lake Band
    Forest County Potawatomi

    Federal laws govern on the Menominee Indian Reservation
    What you are quoting is a little off for the topic at hand. Remember reservations are "Sovereign Nations" within US/State borders. Although their laws may mimic current federal/state laws, there are many differences both subtle and/or striking. I doubt you will find anything regarding these laws posted online since each tribe and/or reservation has their own rules for tribal and non-tribal entities.
    My information comes from the current tribal fish and game head, and a former tribal police chief.

    Basically if you are on a paved state numbered highway or other paved roads, you should be fine. If you see a sign stating that it is a tribal roadway designated by a green reflective steel sign, with a picture of a stone arrowhead, route number, and wording similar to "Tribal Road", chances are you may be in violation of tribal law if you are not following federal transport "Peacable Journey" laws by having your unloaded firearms in a locked case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    What you are quoting is a little off for the topic at hand. Remember reservations are "Sovereign Nations" within US/State borders. Although their laws may mimic current federal/state laws, there are many differences both subtle and/or striking. I doubt you will find anything regarding these laws posted online since each tribe and/or reservation has their own rules for tribal and non-tribal entities.
    My information comes from the current tribal fish and game head, and a former tribal police chief.

    Basically if you are on a paved state numbered highway or other paved roads, you should be fine. If you see a sign stating that it is a tribal roadway designated by a green reflective steel sign, with a picture of a stone arrowhead, route number, and wording similar to "Tribal Road", chances are you may be in violation of tribal law if you are not following federal transport "Peacable Journey" laws by having your unloaded firearms in a locked case.
    You did not read (or at least comprehend) anything I posted.

    Indians tribes do not have legal authority over non-Indians, period! At most they can kick you off their property for violating one of their rules, or arrest you for a violation of State law, or applicable federal law, (if a such authority has been granted by they state/feds) and then turn you over to local authorities for prosecution.

    I also posted the jurisdiction for the five tribes in Wisconsin, four are under State criminal and civil jurisdiction, one is under Federal criminal jurisdiction, and State civil jurisdiction.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 02-10-2013 at 12:12 PM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    http://www.wisconsin.gov/state/core/...an_tribes.html

    There are 11 tribes in Wisconsin as stated in above cite.

    Contact information for each one
    http://witribes.wi.gov/docview.asp?docid=19085&locid=57
    OK. There are 11, or possibly 12 (depending of whom you ask). Does not change any of the facts presented.

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    Don't know about any of the other tribes in Wisconsin, but in LdF just about all dirt track, off road, 4wd swamp crossings are public roads. Since tribes get gas tax money from the feds, not state, they have made the logging roads on tribal land public by claiming them. I bet a lot of others have too! As for LdF, I've seen the map! Might even have a copy....... The BIA would be the 'keepers of the records' when it comes to the roads; the nearest office in northern Wisconsin is in Ashland.

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    Gun in vehicle at casino where I work

    Hi All

    Here is another twist to the question at hand. I work as a Surveillance Agent at the Casino in Baraboo and wonder if I can Have my firearm in my vehicle while I'm working. The state has a statute allowing for the possesion of a firearm in my vehicle if I worked for a private company, does the Indian Tribal Nation allow the same. I looked online and cant find any tribal law allowing or disallowing a firearm in my vehicle while at work.


    Quote Originally Posted by hogeaterf6 View Post
    Any thing that is needed to know about traveling thru the Indian Resv in WI while carring? A friend from MI will be traveling thru the State on a mc.

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    firearm in my vehicle

    I think i found my answer

    Tribal law
    16.4. Firearms
    No person shall have in his or her possession any firearm on any Premises. This Section shall not apply to law enforcement officers or security personnel employed by the Tribe.




    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    Hi All

    Here is another twist to the question at hand. I work as a Surveillance Agent at the Casino in Baraboo and wonder if I can Have my firearm in my vehicle while I'm working. The state has a statute allowing for the possesion of a firearm in my vehicle if I worked for a private company, does the Indian Tribal Nation allow the same. I looked online and cant find any tribal law allowing or disallowing a firearm in my vehicle while at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    I think i found my answer

    Tribal law
    16.4. Firearms
    No person shall have in his or her possession any firearm on any Premises. This Section shall not apply to law enforcement officers or security personnel employed by the Tribe.
    Tribal law does not apply to non-Indians, period! See my post above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Tribal law does not apply to non-Indians, period! See my post above.
    BULLSPIT! That is like saying Wisconsin statutes do not apply to non-residents!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    BULLSPIT! That is like saying Wisconsin statutes do not apply to non-residents!
    So you are saying that you are right and the the US Supreme Court is wrong?

    You obviously did not read (or failed to comprehend) anything I posted.


    Oliphant v. Suquamish Tribe, 435 US 191 - Supreme Court 1978
    . . .
    We recognize that some Indian tribal court systems have become increasingly sophisticated and resemble in many respects their state counterparts. We also acknowledge that with the passage of the Indian Civil Rights Act of 1968, which extends certain basic procedural rights to anyone tried in Indian tribal court, many of the dangers that might have accompanied the exercise by tribal courts of criminal jurisdiction over non-Indians only a few decades ago have disappeared. Finally, we are not unaware of the prevalence of non-Indian crime on today's reservations which the tribes forcefully argue requires the ability to try non-Indians. But these are considerations for Congress to weigh in deciding whether Indian tribes should finally be authorized to try non-Indians. They have little relevance to the principles which lead us to conclude that Indian tribes do not have inherent jurisdiction to try and to punish non-Indians.
    . . .

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    Firearm in vehicle at casino

    What happens if i get caught with a firearm in my vehicle being I'm non-Indian, can they take my firearm, or fire me for violating tribal law???? I contacted the Judiciary Branch located at the URl below and sent a request to clarify the question, waiting for a reply.


    http://www.ho-chunknation.com/?PageId=28



    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So you are saying that you are right and the the US Supreme Court is wrong?

    You obviously did not read (or failed to comprehend) anything I posted.


    Oliphant v. Suquamish Tribe, 435 US 191 - Supreme Court 1978

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    What happens if i get caught with a firearm in my vehicle being I'm non-Indian, can they take my firearm, or fire me for violating tribal law???? I contacted the Judiciary Branch located at the URl below and sent a request to clarify the question, waiting for a reply.


    http://www.ho-chunknation.com/?PageId=28
    First question I have is how would they 'catch' you with a firearm in your car?

    Can they take your firearm? Not unless possession of the firearm is a violation of State or Federal law, then arrest you (if they have an agreement with the State of Feds that would allow them to arrest you) and immediately turn you over to the local/state/fed LEO for processing.

    In this regard, think of tribal law as you would any another employer's policy. Could McDonald's fire you for keeping a firearm in your car?


    ETA: As if I really needed more facts to support my position, I offer this:
    From the Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog
    February 24, 2012
    The Criminal Jurisdiction of Indian Tribes

    . . .
    Likewise, the criminal jurisdiction of Indian tribes is uniquely limited, according largely to U.S. Supreme Court rulings, in a manner that reflects the place and status of the tribes on the American legal landscape. In the 1978 decision of Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, for example, the Court held that tribal criminal jurisdiction does not extend to the conduct of non-Indians, regardless of the gravity of the crimes committed and despite the occurrence of the conduct within the territory of the tribe. The Court, in other words, essentially reduced the traditional axes of sovereignty from two (territory and citizenry) toward just one (citizenry). In the 1990 case of Duro v. Reina, the Court completed this reduction of tribal criminal jurisdiction by limiting it not simply to Indians, but to only members (or citizens) of the prosecuting tribe, thus eliminating criminal jurisdiction over members of other tribes who happen to commit crimes within the prosecuting tribe’s territory.
    . . .
    Last edited by notalawyer; 02-13-2013 at 10:16 PM.

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    Storing firearms in vehicle while in a casino parking lot

    I did find a draft of tribal law for having a firearm in your vehicle while parked in a casino parking lot. I'm in contact with the Ho-Chunk Nation chief of police and he is looking into it.

    http://ho-chunknation.com/UserFiles/...0-%20FINAL.pdf

    From what I have read, even though non-indians are not subject to tribal law, if you break either state, federal law you can be detained by tribal law enforcement and turned over to state or federal authorities for prosicution. If you break tribal law not covered by state or federal law all they can do is escort you off the indian property and tell you to never return.



    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    First question I have is how would they 'catch' you with a firearm in your car?

    Can they take your firearm? Not unless possession of the firearm is a violation of State or Federal law, then arrest you (if they have an agreement with the State of Feds that would allow them to arrest you) and immediately turn you over to the local/state/fed LEO for processing.

    In this regard, think of tribal law as you would any another employer's policy. Could McDonald's fire you for keeping a firearm in your car?


    ETA: As if I really needed more facts to support my position, I offer this:
    From the Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog
    February 24, 2012
    The Criminal Jurisdiction of Indian Tribes

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