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Thread: Are we already at war?

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    Are we already at war?

    Has Civil War 2.0 already started and we just don't realize it yet? I heard today that Chris Kent and another strong 2a advocate were gunned down on a range by one of Obama's brownshirt thugs no doubt. Earlier it was one of the producers of FPS Russia, and we've seen the WH petition to hunt down and murder gun rights supporters who have done nothing to anyone. Are we already in a war and just don't know it?

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    Only in the minds of people willing to jump to wild conclusions.

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    just sabre rattling so far

    the lines are being drawn and the sabres are being rattled from both sides.
    since the shooter of the navy seal has been arrested, we need to see who or what was behind that.
    i think people like feinstien and bloomberg are just posturing to their supporters.
    franstiens bill will be defeated, then she can blame it on the nra.
    and bloombergs add on the superbowl will fall on deaf ears.
    public opinion has already been determined and dancing on dead childrens body's will work against the anti's.....just my 2 1/2 cents.
    i'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    His name was Chris Kyle.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    And he apparently was NOT shot by any kind of brownshirt.

    The willingness of some here to jump to WILD conclusions really gives the rest of us and the movement a bad name. It is hard for us to maintain credibility when wacko posts, like the one at the top of this thread, abound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    And he apparently was NOT shot by any kind of brownshirt.

    The willingness of some here to jump to WILD conclusions really gives the rest of us and the movement a bad name. It is hard for us to maintain credibility when wacko posts, like the one at the top of this thread, abound.
    The gentleman is free to express his ideas and opinions ... I don't think it hurts anyone else's credibility.

    And it may not be so "wacko"; only time will tell.

    The OP stated facts and came to a hypothesis. You, on the other hand, offer nothing but conclusions.

    Folks in NY (not NYC, one of the major crap-holes of the nation), have already shown that they are not willing to follow the recent set of laws passed in that state. This suggests that they are willing to resist; if they actually do will be seen. But if they do, then what? The OP's hypothesis gains some hard facts in support of his ideas.

    I myself, would not find anyone guilty in their actions resisting these illegal laws, and this is acceptable behavior under the jury nullification legal process. And I would certainly object to the federal or other states in affecting or aiding in the enforcement of NY illegal laws; at the very least.

    Once, if, the federal government starts assigning federal troops to enforce NY state laws then what would you do?

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    Regular Member linerider69's Avatar
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    We are at war the current admin. will go to extraordinary lengths to make sure they win what is for now a media, psychological,shock war.Make no mistake not standing up now will have grave consequences.But that is just my opinion.I am willing to put myself in harms way for my rights. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by linerider69; 02-03-2013 at 11:57 PM.

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    Are we already at war?

    Short memories make each era seem so much worse that the last.

    We are not in a civil war or a war for survival of our nation. Our government is not sending agents out to start a fight or kill people among us just to make it seem bad.

    What we do have is a slightly different flavor and highly charged edition of politics. And talk radio and yellow journalism help convince is that we each are being attacked. It's called "delusions of persecution", and it is a very real indicator of mental illness.
    --

    I voted for the last Bush in his first win. But I couldn't do it the second time because he was doing all he could to make bad decisions. Like the idea of privatizing social security he pushed - a program which is intended to be the backstop, not the retirement plan for the nation. The Patriot Act. Two wars which linger still. A financial crisis of epic proportions because of things like wide open lending of money institutions didn't actually have to lend, derivatives, and mortgage backed securities that took away incentive for better lending practices.

    As President Obama tried to clean up the mess, he never tried to take away our rights (until now, and possibly with Obama care), and never did much to raise taxes or fix the budget problems left to his administration. He has been too busy trying to keep the second dip of the recession from really happening. Had he cut the budget and raised taxes and brought home the troops and not followed thru in the Bush bailout commitments (yes, they were), our economy would really be in the crapper.

    He's not an excellent president, but he's far from the worst. I wish people would at least recognize that he isn't some buffoon stumbling through his terms. He is the President, not Dumbo, or whatever other pejorative you care to toss his way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    He's not an excellent president, but he's far from the worst..
    I think you are selling him short...or maybe give him some more time ... if interest rates sky rocket after the artificial low of today, then you may change your mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    Short memories make each era seem so much worse that the last.

    We are not in a civil war or a war for survival of our nation. Our government is not sending agents out to start a fight or kill people among us just to make it seem bad.

    What we do have is a slightly different flavor and highly charged edition of politics. And talk radio and yellow journalism help convince is that we each are being attacked. It's called "delusions of persecution", and it is a very real indicator of mental illness.
    --

    I voted for the last Bush in his first win. But I couldn't do it the second time because he was doing all he could to make bad decisions. Like the idea of privatizing social security he pushed - a program which is intended to be the backstop, not the retirement plan for the nation. The Patriot Act. Two wars which linger still. A financial crisis of epic proportions because of things like wide open lending of money institutions didn't actually have to lend, derivatives, and mortgage backed securities that took away incentive for better lending practices.

    As President Obama tried to clean up the mess, he never tried to take away our rights (until now, and possibly with Obama care), and never did much to raise taxes or fix the budget problems left to his administration. He has been too busy trying to keep the second dip of the recession from really happening. Had he cut the budget and raised taxes and brought home the troops and not followed thru in the Bush bailout commitments (yes, they were), our economy would really be in the crapper.

    He's not an excellent president, but he's far from the worst. I wish people would at least recognize that he isn't some buffoon stumbling through his terms. He is the President, not Dumbo, or whatever other pejorative you care to toss his way.
    LOL No, that would be Idiot Joe Biden. NObama keeps him around to look smart. I am not as worried about NObama as I am about the Fascist idiots in Congress.

    In 2011 according to the federal government statistics,

    195,000 deaths from doctors/malpractice
    32,367 people died in car “accidents”
    1694 people were murdered by knives
    726 by hands or feet
    496 by clubs or hammers
    12,565 deaths by guns, (7,804 suicides)
    323 by rifles of ANY KIND
    And idiots like Bloomberg, Feinstein, Biden and Obama want to ban semi-automatic rifles???

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The gentleman is free to express his ideas and opinions ... I don't think it hurts anyone else's credibility.

    And it may not be so "wacko"; only time will tell...
    No one said he is not free to do so. Please do not imply that I did.

    I am also free to express my opinion of the silliness of his post--and of yours.

    Finally, time has already told. We pretty well know who shot him and why this tragedy happened--unless you want to posit some kind of government brainwashing thing or some other conspiracy theory crap? If you do, I will have to ask you for that which you have to be asked repeatedly, but rarely provide: support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    Short memories make each era seem so much worse that the last.

    We are not in a civil war or a war for survival of our nation. Our government is not sending agents out to start a fight or kill people among us just to make it seem bad.

    What we do have is a slightly different flavor and highly charged edition of politics. And talk radio and yellow journalism help convince is that we each are being attacked. It's called "delusions of persecution", and it is a very real indicator of mental illness.
    --

    I voted for the last Bush in his first win. But I couldn't do it the second time because he was doing all he could to make bad decisions. Like the idea of privatizing social security he pushed - a program which is intended to be the backstop, not the retirement plan for the nation. The Patriot Act. Two wars which linger still. A financial crisis of epic proportions because of things like wide open lending of money institutions didn't actually have to lend, derivatives, and mortgage backed securities that took away incentive for better lending practices.

    SNIP
    Please explain to me, how social security is constitutional in the first place. Explain to me under what constitutional authority it was exacted under.

    Social(ist) security is proof that the, ones who pull the string in the, government are trying to destroy us all. Social security was a way to trick you into making yourself a slave. A slave has no rights, what keeps happening at the federal level? The government keeps denying our rights. Why is that?

    Get rid of the socialist security program and that would be a big hit against a house of cards.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: Are we already at war?

    JTHunter, consider yourself a victim of the lies and propaganda of the anti-rights lobby. You rant against the left while forgetting the right gave us the PATRIOT Act.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Please explain to me, how social security is constitutional in the first place. Explain to me under what constitutional authority it was exacted under.

    Social(ist) security is proof that the, ones who pull the string in the, government are trying to destroy us all. Social security was a way to trick you into making yourself a slave. A slave has no rights, what keeps happening at the federal level? The government keeps denying our rights. Why is that?

    Get rid of the socialist security program and that would be a big hit against a house of cards.
    perhaps you would like to take up the slack for retired persons like myself. I and my wife are living on ss, along with millions of other retired persons.
    i'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    and he apparently was not shot by any kind of brownshirt.

    The willingness of some here to jump to wild conclusions really gives the rest of us and the movement a bad name. It is hard for us to maintain credibility when wacko posts, like the one at the top of this thread, abound.
    amen
    i'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellyfat View Post
    perhaps you would like to take up the slack for retired persons like myself. I and my wife are living on ss, along with millions of other retired persons.
    Yep, that makes it constitutional... /sarc

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    Are we already at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellyfat View Post
    perhaps you would like to take up the slack for retired persons like myself. I and my wife are living on ss, along with millions of other retired persons.
    Unfortunately, promises were made that we can't simply back down on. Folks have paid into the system with the expectation of being able to draw on it. The system is unconstitutional and needs to be wound down.

    One possible solution is for the States who want to keep it going to take over the collections and payments for their citizens. For seniors in States that don't want the program to continue, SS payments are just going to have to be worked into the budget. (Stopping "crazy checks" to lazy parents would provide a nice start.) People close to retirement will have to be grandfathered somehow. Everyone else will have to work out their retirements, the way they should have all along.

    I am close to SS age myself. If the feds would just repay what I have given them, including employer contributions, I wouldn't ever ask for a dime more


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    Quote Originally Posted by bellyfat View Post
    perhaps you would like to take up the slack for retired persons like myself. I and my wife are living on ss, along with millions of other retired persons.
    And this makes it constitutional how?

    I thought that theft, fraud, conversion, and involuntary servitude were all criminal activities. I also thought that receiving stolen goods was a criminal activity also.

    So, you would have had to volunteer to donate to the Social Security program. Much like a donation to a church that helps the homeless. If it is not a voluntary contribution then it would have to be the illegal activities that I have listed. Those receiving SS benefits would be accepting stolen property.

    You have failed to answer a simple question. The case shown in my tag line shows proves that it is unconstitutional. Those receiving SS are those that our congresscritters use the money of others to buy your votes. Proof of that is the fact that people receiving SS would never vote to repeal it or at least have the truth about it exposed publicly.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Are we already at war?

    I have a hard time arguing the logic of taxation to people who want to keep all their money and then demand something when their plans fail. (They lose a job, get sick, and then lose their house...) Social Security was how Congress chose to fund a system to prevent starvation of those who lost their savings to the criminals on Wall Street and Main Street. It was a knee-jerk response and probably not the best course, but you can't undo the past. The alternative is for the government to allow people to starve. Which is fine on paper, but a better plan seemed the progressive thing to do at the time.

    Obviously, if we cut the government back to its true purpose, many of us would be better off, but probably not like you think. If you sell goods or services, you would immediately lose 30-50% of your business. People would be too busy saving to spend, or too busy eating to buy other things. Nothing wrong with that, just suggesting we think the economics through, rather than standing blindly on principle without a plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    No one said he is not free to do so. Please do not imply that I did.

    I am also free to express my opinion of the silliness of his post--and of yours.
    Now you are being silly ... I did not imply anything against you ...

    And its easy to say "that post is silly" .. its not a great statement to make.

    Post facts, not simple conclusions ... otherwise it is you who is being silly.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    I have a hard time arguing the logic of taxation to people who want to keep all their money and then demand something when their plans fail. (They lose a job, get sick, and then lose their house...) Social Security was how Congress chose to fund a system to prevent starvation of those who lost their savings to the criminals on Wall Street and Main Street. It was a knee-jerk response and probably not the best course, but you can't undo the past. The alternative is for the government to allow people to starve. Which is fine on paper, but a better plan seemed the progressive thing to do at the time.

    Obviously, if we cut the government back to its true purpose, many of us would be better off, but probably not like you think. If you sell goods or services, you would immediately lose 30-50% of your business. People would be too busy saving to spend, or too busy eating to buy other things. Nothing wrong with that, just suggesting we think the economics through, rather than standing blindly on principle without a plan.
    BUZZZZ, wrong.

    The Social Security program was brought to us by a socialist/progressive and with the help of the big banks.

    Here is one good bit of history on in. http://mises.org/pdf/asc/essays/attarian.pdf

    What happens when we end it? http://spectator.org/archives/2012/0...-by-choice-the

    No one who understand economics buys what you're selling there.
    ----
    As for War the government, well those pulling the strings, have been at war with "we the people" for a long time now. (thank you Mr Lincoln)
    Thanks to FDR's "new deal" we can be punished and enslaved without being able to have a day inside a court in law. The state's now pass out administrative punishments without court orders all the time. In administrative courts, you are guilt until you can prove you are not.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    As eye95 has already said, it wasn't a "brownshirt". It was another soldier Chris and his friend were trying to help deal with his PTSD. Itappears he had some kind of attack (panic, anxiety, etc.) and started shooting.
    That being said, I disagree with eye95's assessment of our situation. For the past 10+ years, our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and (generally) our civil liberties have been under attack by the anti's, the liberal media, and the political left. The past 4 years under "Dumbo" have been ample evidence of that.
    While we are not in a "shooting war", a point I hope we never reach, it may have to come to that to stop this insidious, slow-motion assault on our country.
    Think about the Iranian hostage problem back in the 70's. Add in the original WTC bombing of the early 90's. Remember the attack on the U.S.S. Cole while it was docked in Yemen? Or the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut? How long have we been fighting a "holding action" against the muslim extremists without actually calling it a "war". Yet it has been a war and it continues even now.
    So yes, we are at war, a war to save the U.S. as we know it. We need to acknowledge that and not turn a "blind eye" to it as we have done with the al-Queda/Taliban problem.
    Good gawd is this some kind of an eye test? Not meaning to rag on you but being a bit on the older and eye tired side, it makes hard to read with the small print.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I would give anything--temporarily--to have the Government come down hard on firearms...just so I can watch tea party 2.0, and Jones types, sit down, and S T F U.

    But I digress...there is no plot, there is no boogie-man hiding around the corner, preparing to grab your guns.

    If you're afraid of it happening, dig yourself a bunker, stock up food, and lock yourself away, until the end of the world is over.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 02-05-2013 at 09:31 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I would give anything--temporarily--to have the Government come down hard on firearms...just so I can watch tea party 2.0, and Jones types, sit down, and S T F U.

    But I digress...there is no plot, there is no boogie-man hiding around the corner, preparing to grab your guns.

    If you're afraid of it happening, dig yourself a bunker, stock up food, and lock yourself away, until the end of the world is over.
    Your libtard,naive responses do nothing but clearly show that you are a big Gov. anti liberty, koolaid drinker.

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    I am not convinced that the perp. isn't an Obama brownshirt thug or independent zealot. The whole point of having brownshirt thugs is that they aren't cops and aren't directly traceable back to Obama. Maybe it is just a coincidence that all these things have happened in short succession. But I certainly am not going to trust that people who have said they want to hunt down and murder gun owners aren't already doing it.

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